muslim and beard?

[Hapsburg]

anyone who know why muslims have beard?
where is it written in the quran ?

i know christians and jews have beard because of its relgion.

but where did muslims find that "order"?

Why? Do you...not like beards or something?

 

[j.a.g]

hi Zahid

dont worry,your english is better than mine i would like to remind you about "Tibyaanan li Kulli Shaiyin (16:89)". This means it explains everything.


1) Ablution/ghusol

- Hazrat Usman said: If a man withdraws before ejaculation, let him wash the genitals and make Wudhu (No bath necessary). (Bukhari, vol 1 Kitabul Wudhu pg 164 Hadith 176)

- Bath becomes mandatory after penetration. (Muwatta Malik pg 22)

- Rasool said: When a man sits between the woman’s legs and pushes hard, Ghusl (bath) becomes mandatory with or without ejaculation. (Muslim vol 1 Bab-il-Wudhu pg 485)

Now what conclusion can we reach if any?

purity :

56:79


This is a Book that none but the pure of mind can grasp.[Those who approach the Quran with minds contaminated with preconceived notions and extrinsic material, will never understand it.

Mutahharoon = Those who rid their minds of blind following and false dogmas. (2:222).

It is a common insult to say that men cannot touch it without wudhu (ablution) and women cannot touch it during menstruation. Why would God place hurdles in the way of approaching His guidance?

how to do the ablution or ghussol?

5:6 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salaat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. [But the “Islamic” clergy would rather have you wash your feet in the sinks, gargle your throat, snort water and loudly blow your nose, even in public rest areas, and invite justified rage from non-Muslims. The argumentation of ‘Arjulakum’ and ‘Arjulikum’ is absolutely an exercise in futility.)

its quite simple,ablution is needed if u cant do ghussol,and cleainig all of u in ghussol doesnt need a a recipe.if people use their brains,they will find out,only those parts are required to be clean before salah,wich is exposed to dust,pullotiion etc.

----------

Obey the prophet :

]"Say: [O Muhammad]: "O humankind! Verily, I am a Messenger of God to all of you, [sent by Him] unto whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs." (7:158)

"And [thus O Prophet,] We sent thee as [an evidence of Our] grace towards all the worlds." (21: 107)


When the Quran set this high goal for humanity it also provided working principles for achieving it in the human world. This is what the Prophet accomplished with the help of his companions . He created a true multiethnic and multiracial society for the first time in human history. The ultimate goal, of course, was to include all humanity in this ideal.


Are obeying Allah and obeying the Prophet two separate duties; one through the Quran and the other through the hadith? Or, are these two merged into one obedience?

Allah’s revelation to the Prophet is written in the Quran (6:19). There is no verse in the Quran which says that Allah’s revelation to the Prophet is outside the Quran.

We mostly concentrate on the Prophet’s Sunnah related to his private and family life and to religious rituals and practices. We ignore or evade the larger issues of Sunnah, which affected humanity. If we look beyond our comfort zones, we will see large-scale human suffering, humiliation, exploitation, subjugation, torture and discrimination. Our prayers and rituals alone will not solve this massive human problem, nor will our charities and fund raising make a dent in it. Remember, we can recognize a tree by its fruits. What fruits have we Muslims reaped from the tree of Islam for the last 1300 years, or, for that matter, for the last 20 years, other than humiliation, subjugation, and discrimination?

we divided ourself into sects:

“As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you (Muhammad) have no part in them in the least.” (6:159)

actual meanin of : follow the messenger is :


He releases them ( all human beings) from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light (i.e., the Quran) which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.” (7:157)


The namaz is not even written in the qoran,the word is a phalvi word from farsi,persian. zorostrians use to do namaaz 5 times a day,and slaat is wrongly translated as namaaz,but namaaz is not same as salat. if u want me to explain,i can do it. this was too long mayb,im sorry :shrug:

reflect: if its not written about the namaaz in the qoran,and its written in the hadiht(contradicting hadith as i showed u) does that mean Allah made a mistake? is iT Allah's fault because he "forgot" to give a recipe for namaaz? just reflect. and reflect upon the story of namaz in sahih bukhari. how it became 5 namaaz,,,from 500......just think about it for a while .

sorry again,ill try not to write an essay next time

 

[j.a.g]

Why? Do you...not like beards or something?

no it dont have anything to do with my likings ,i just want to know why its a mandatory to have beard iislam (and its not written in the quran ). if we can come up with rules like that whenever we want to,then people can be misguided .

im just saying ,dont make it(beard,) as a law,when its not a law

 

[j.a.g]

Isn't there a verse about using your brains, too?

The Quran is a guide but to cling to it without thinking is an insult to it.

The very first revelation to Mohammed was the injunction to read.

And I read that most Hadiths were collected 200-800 years after the prophet died.

Out of 600,000 Bukhari rejected all but 4000. Based on isnad, ie who said it to whom. There is really no way to confirm the validity of what was said. People interpret what other people say, rather than parrot it.

Isn't it better to do something because its right for you, rather than because someone else also did it?

KNOWLEDGE AND USE OF YOUR SENSEs

what is knowledge? The Quran says,

“Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. The hearing and sight and the heart—all of them shall have to answer whether personal inquiry was made concerning the matter.” (17/36)

The words hearing and seeing refer to human senses and the Arabic word heart is also used to mean the mind.

The Quranic concept of knowledge is objective and the knowledge of the non-ego is superior to that of the ego. The revelation of the Quran marked the birth of inductive intellect. Inductive reason alone allows the human being to become master of his/her environment. Islam has created and fostered the spirit of critical observation of outer experience by divesting the forces of nature of that divine character with which the earlier culture had clothed them. The important thing to note is that the Quran, for purposes of knowledge, fixes its gaze on the concrete and finite. It is also abundantly clear that the birth of the method of observation and experimental science in Islam was due not to a compromise with Greek thought but to a prolonged intellectual warfare with it.


THOSE WHO DONT USE THEIR SENSES



“Many among human beings have adopted a lifestyle that will lead them to hell. They have a mind but do not use it to think and reflect. They have eyes but do not see. They have ears but cannot hear. They are not human beings and are even worse than animals. They are neglectful.” (7/179)

This verse also indicates that knowledge is only that which can be explained by the senses and the mind. Intangible, abstract matters have nothing to do with the senses. Observation of natural phenomena and the study of the universe, experimentation to discover the laws of creation, maintenance, and workings of the components of the universe are the applications of sense-perception. In modern terminology this is called scientific knowledge. As the Quran states, the pursuit of such knowledge is the duty of all believers (momineen).

 

[Hapsburg]

no it dont have anything to do with my likings ,i just want to know why its a mandatory to have beard iislam (and its not written in the quran ). if we can come up with rules like that whenever we want to,then people can be misguided .

im just saying ,dont make it(beard,) as a law,when its not a law

I think it's more of a cultural custom than a specific law. Like the Gauls and their gaudily patterned trousers, or the Romans with their towels.

 

[Z7575]

It is a common insult to say that men cannot touch it without wudhu (ablution) and women cannot touch it during menstruation. Why would God place hurdles in the way of approaching His guidance?

My dear, ur post included so incorrect info/facts so i will explain and speak as i can right now, step by step !

-1-
*firs of all, just to know, if someone aren't impure/جنب, he CAN read the quran without wodu, just he cann't touch the book [some scholar said he can]
*when a woman menstruates, some of scholar said she can't read the Qur'an either she cant touch the book but she can read without move her lips,another scholar said: she can read the Qur'an, but she can't touch it,
and to know why some scholar contradict with other, it cus some of them observe the outward of hadith but other deduce the decisions from the meaning of hadith or ayat ...
*from my words above u should realize that allah didn't place hurdles in the way of approaching His guidance, or did he ?

-2-
u said:

]Now what conclusion can we reach if any?

purity :

56:79


This is a Book that none but the pure of mind can grasp.[Those who approach the Quran with minds contaminated with preconceived notions and extrinsic material, will never understand it.

Mutahharoon = Those who rid their minds of blind following and false dogmas. (2:222).

but allah said mutaharuun in the surah[56-79] and it was about who can touch the holy quran, not who can read it, and said mutattahrun in [2-222] which was about when we can have a sexual relations with our wives, look:

ويسألونك عن المحيض قل هو أذى فاعتزلوا النساء في المحيض ولا تقربوهن حتى يطهرن فإذا تطهرن فأتوهن من حيث أمركم الله إن الله يحب التوابين ويحب المتطهرين​

They ask thee concerning women's courses. say: they are a hurt and a pollution, so keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. but when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by God. for God loves those who turn to him constantly and he loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.[2-222]

"لا يمسه إلا المطهرون "
​

"Which none shall touch but those who are clean"[56:79],
and the meaning of "who are clean" is whom clean from "major ritual impurity/الجنابة" or whom get out the "excrement" or "urine" from them which mean in arabi" الحدث"...back to the tafssir aljalalyn

..........i would like to remind you about "Tibyaanan li Kulli Shaiyin (16:89)". This means it explains everything.


1) Ablution/ghusol

- Hazrat Usman said: If a man withdraws before ejaculation, let him wash the genitals and make Wudhu (No bath necessary). (Bukhari, vol 1 Kitabul Wudhu pg 164 Hadith 176)

- Bath becomes mandatory after penetration. (Muwatta Malik pg 22)

- Rasool said: When a man sits between the woman’s legs and pushes hard, Ghusl (bath) becomes mandatory with or without ejaculation. (Muslim vol 1 Bab-il-Wudhu pg 485)

how to do the ablution or ghussol?

first of all let me explain this point, i mean when we should do the ritual ablution/الغسل/algussel ....with "evidence" form the quran and the sunna

1-when the sperm get out,[ some of sholer said: when we had the enjoyment while the sperm flow out not just when the sperm get out]cus allah said:
"وإن كنتم جنبا " which mean "if ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bath your whole body." [5-6],and in other aya, when he spoke about prays, and as u know we read the quran in the pray/salat, he said :
"يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تقربوا الصلاة وأنتم سكارى حتى تعلموا ما تقولون ولا جنبا إلا عابري سبيل حتى تغتسلوا ", "Ye who believe approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say, nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body."
So we should do the gusel when the sperm get out ..

2-when the glans get into xxxx :
cus the prophet said:"When a man sits between the woman’s legs and pushes hard, Ghusl (bath) becomes mandatory with or without ejaculation." (Muslim vol 1 Bab-il-Wudhu pg 485)

3-when the infidel convert to islam .
4-death, cus when some one died, we shoul wash him ..
5-menstruation
6-confinement
so when u used this word" mutahuron" u didn't use it as we should, and as u know the Quran revealed in arabic, and we should know what words mean in arabic to translate it, and as i know mutauron don't mean :" Those who rid their minds of blind following and false dogmas" !!

allah said in ayat albakara, aya 2:

ويسألونك عن المحيض قل هو أذى فاعتزلوا النساء في المحيض ولا تقربوهن حتى يطهرن فإذا تطهرن فأتوهن من حيث أمركم الله إن الله يحب التوابين ويحب المتطهرين

the the translated of this surah is:

They ask thee concerning women's courses. say: they are a hurt and a pollution, so keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. but when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by God. for God loves those who turn to him constantly and he loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.




~~

5:6 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salaat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. [But the “Islamic” clergy would rather have you wash your feet in the sinks, gargle your throat, snort water and loudly blow your nose, even in public rest areas, and invite justified rage from non-Muslims. The argumentation of ‘Arjulakum’ and ‘Arjulikum’ is
absolutely an exercise in futility.)

my dear u still mix between alfared/الفرض, and between alsunna, i mean fared alwodowe/ablution/الوضوء, is :
1-washing the face ,
2-washing the hands[and arms] to the elbows
3 rubing the heads
4-rubing/ washing the feet to the ankles
this from holu quran
5-aligning, i mean we should do these steps, step by step, from 1 to 4, not one before one, (this is from the sunna, but came as a necessity)

BUT the sunan/سنن of ablution/الوضوء are:
1-facing the kaaba, " mecca"
2-tooth cleanser, السواك
3-washing the hands 3 times,
4-gargle your throat[ as u said], and snuffing the water
etc etc.....

So NO one say, u should do that when u do the ablution as a compulsory way, NO one said if u didn't do that ur ablution is valid, the islamist urge on this acts cus the follow the quran and the sunna...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When the Quran set this high goal for humanity it also provided working principles for achieving it in the human world. This is what the Prophet accomplished with the help of his companions . He created a true multiethnic and multiracial society for the first time in human history. The ultimate goal, of course, was to include all humanity in this ideal............

I can agree with this statement ...from the beginning with few objections, like:

what sunna mean ?

The Sunnah is the next important source, and is commonly defined as "the traditions and customs of Muhammad" or "the words, actions and silent assertions of him". It includes the everyday sayings and utterances of Muhammad, his acts, his tacit consent, and acknowledgments of statements and activities. According to Shi'ite jurists, the sunnah also includes the words, deeds and acknowledgments of the twelve Imams and Fatimah, Muhammad's daughter, who are believed to be infallible.
Justification for using the Sunnah as a source of law can be found in the Qur'an. The Qur'an commands Muslims to follow Muhammad. During his lifetime, Muhammad made it clear that his traditions (along with the Qur'an) should be followed after his death. The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider the sunnah to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an. In Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur'an contains many rules for the behavior expected of Muslims but there are no specific Qur'anic rules on many religious and practical matters. Muslims believe that they can look at the way of life, or sunnah, of Muhammad and his companions to discover what to imitate and what to avoid.
Much of the sunnah is recorded in the Hadith. Initially, Muhammad had instructed his followers not to write down his acts, so they may not confuse it with the Qur'an. However, he did ask his followers to disseminate his sayings orally. As long as he was alive, any doubtful record could be confirmed as true or false by simply asking him. His death, however, gave rise to confusion over Muhammad's conduct. Thus the Hadith were established.[8] Due to problems of authenticity, the science of Hadith (Arabic: `Ulum al-hadith) is established. It is a method of textual criticism developed by early Muslim scholars in determining the veracity of reports attributed to Muhammad. This is achieved by analyzing the text of the report, the scale of the report's transmission, the routes through which the report was transmitted, and the individual narrators involved in its transmission. On the basis of these criteria, various Hadith classifications developed.
To establish the authenticity of a particular Hadith or report, it had to be checked by following the chain of transmission (isnad). Thus the reporters had to cite their reference, and their reference's reference all the way back to Muhammad. All the references in the chain had to have a reputation for honesty and possessing a good retentive memory. Thus biographical analysis (`ilm al-rij?l, lit. "science of people"), which contains details about the transmitter are scrutinized. This includes analyzing their date and place of birth; familial connections; teachers and students; religiosity; moral behaviour; literary output; their travels; as well as their date of death. Based upon these criteria, the reliability (thiq?t) of the transmitter is assessed. Also determined is whether the individual was actually able to transmit the report, which is deduced from their contemporaneity and geographical proximity with the other transmitters in the chain. Examples of biographical dictionaries include Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani's "Tahdh?b al-Tahdh?b" or al-Dhahabi's "Tadhkirat al-huff?z."

from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_sharia

but why we should follow the sunna?
cus allah said:
"يا أيها الذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول ولا تبطلوا أعمالكم ", " O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and make not vain your deeds!"[47:32]

"وأقيموا الصلاة وآتوا الزكاة وأطيعوا الرسول لعلكم ترحمون "," So establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and obey the Apostle; that ye may receive mercy."[24:56]

"قل أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول فإن تولوا فإنما عليه ما حمل وعليكم ما حملتم وإن تطيعوه تهتدوا وما على الرسول إلا البلاغ المبين","Say: Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear "[24:54]

"وأطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول واحذروا فإن توليتم فاعلموا أنما على رسولنا البلاغ المبين " Obey God, and obey the apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is our apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."[5:92]

"من يطع الرسول فقد أطاع الله ومن تولى فما أرسلناك عليهم حفيظا "," He who obeys the apostle, obeys God: but if any turn away, we have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds)."[4:80]

"وأطيعوا الله والرسول لعلكم ترحمون "," And obey God and the apostle; that ye may obtain mercy." [3:132]

and the prophet whom the god order us to obay him said:"أوصيكم بتقوى اللّه والسمع والطاعة، وإن عبداً حبشيّاً فإِنه من يعش منكم بعدي فسيرى اختلافاً كثيراً، فعليكم بسنتي وسنة الخلفاء المهديِّين الراشدين تمسكوا بها وعضُّوا عليها بالنَّواجذ، وإياكم ومحدثات الأمور، فإِنَّ كلَّ محدثةٍ بدعةٌ، وكلُّ بدعةٍ ضلالةٌ"[sahih albukhary, hadit :4607], which mean in arabic: follow my sunna, and the sunna of alkhulafa alrashydin ...
so when some one order u to obey some one and that some one ask from u to do something don't contradict with what the first one said, u should obey him ..... and the prophet order us to follow the sunna, do u want from me to explain what is islamic legislation, and what is the sources of it ?

~*~*~*~*~*
-BTW dear "j.a.g" next time when u want to open a thread, titled it with expressed title, and start directly in what u want to say, not like this thread, u write a some thing while u want to debate something else
- my points are so

 

[(Q)]

My dear, ur post included some incorrect info/facts so i will explain and speak as i can right now, step by step !

-BTW dear "j.a.g" next time when u want to open a thread, titled it with expressed title, and start directly in what u want to say, not like this thread, u write a some thing while u want to debate something else
- my points are so

It's little wonder Muslims can't agree with us poor infidels considering they can't even agree with one another.

:bravo:

 

[S.A.M.]

It's little wonder Muslims can't agree with us poor infidels considering they can't even agree with one another.

:bravo:

I suppose atheists all walk in lockstep.:bugeye:

 

[(Q)]

Isn't there a verse about using your brains, too?

Yes, but it is only to be used after the brain has been pickled in Islam. To use the brain beyond Islamic beliefs is a sin.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, but it is only to be used after the brain has been pickled in Islam. To use the brain beyond Islamic beliefs is a sin.

True, true. Perhaps one day we will become enlightened enough to see why riots are more significant than pre-emptive wars, torture and white phosphorus. One can only hope that one day we will see that its better to ignore the carpet bombing of civilians we don't like by focusing on their "backward" and sinister culture [and religious leanings, of course].

 

[Z7575]

It's little wonder Muslims can't agree with us poor infidels considering they can't even agree with one another.

:bravo:

what about the deferents between catholics, orthodoxes, Protestants, at leas we didn't call each other "infidels" or "heretics" , these differences came cus the scholar in past didn't knew to the same knowledges, maybe some of them knew a hadith while the others didn't hear about it, maybe some of them had a way of understanding the hadith and Quran, while the other had another one ...
but the point is, we don't hat each other cus these differences, cus we know that if any one know the truth in future he will change his view ..!!

 

[(Q)]

True, true. Perhaps one day we will become enlightened enough to see why riots are more significant than pre-emptive wars, torture and white phosphorus. One can only hope that one day we will see that its better to ignore the carpet bombing of civilians we don't like by focusing on their "backward" and sinister culture [and religious leanings, of course].

Oops, there goes that broken tape recorder again. Will somebody please fix it?

 

[(Q)]

what about the deferents between catholics, orthodoxes, Protestants

Yes, what about the differences? Plenty, aren't there? Just like the differences in Islam, or any religion. Plenty of evidence there to suggest those gods don't exist.

at leas we didn't call each other "infidels" or "heretics" , these differences came cus the scholar in past didn't knew to the same knowledges, maybe some of them knew a hadith while the others didn't hear about it, maybe some of them had a way of understanding the hadith and Quran, while the other had another one ...
but the point is, we don't hat each other cus these differences, cus we know that if any one know the truth in future he will change his view ..!!

No, you save the terms 'infidels and heretics' for us non-believers.

Can you explain why the different sects of Muslim kill each other over the differences of Islam?

 

[j.a.g]

My dear, ur post included so incorrect info/facts so i will explain and speak as i can right now, step by step !

-1-
*firs of all, just to know, if someone aren't impure/جنب, he CAN read the quran without wodu, just he cann't touch the book [some scholar said he can]
*when a woman menstruates, some of scholar said she can't read the Qur'an either she cant touch the book but she can read without move her lips,another scholar said: she can read the Qur'an, but she can't touch it,
and to know why some scholar contradict with other, it cus some of them observe the outward of hadith but other deduce the decisions from the meaning of hadith or ayat ...


This is your way of thinking,,that the scholars know it all. to me,if its not written in the book,it cant be a rule. what your basially sayin,a impure cant touch the qoran,but he can read it. that is not true. while tortouring the prisoners in Guantanamo,they burned the qoran. the TOUCHED it and burned it. lods of people can TOUCH the qoran,its in the libraries,bookstoores etc.not all of them are "pure"

-2-
u said:


but allah said mutaharuun in the surah[56-79] and it was about who can touch the holy quran, not who can read it, and said mutattahrun in [2-222] which was about when we can have a sexual relations with our wives, look:

ويسألونك عن المحيض قل هو أذى فاعتزلوا النساء في المحيض ولا تقربوهن حتى يطهرن فإذا تطهرن فأتوهن من حيث أمركم الله إن الله يحب التوابين ويحب المتطهرين​

the root is tæhr,and it mean : the pure/the clean/the washed/the purifying/the cleaning/the washing mentally and physically (p)

when you have SEEN it with your own eyes,hindus who burned the qoran,they WERE touching it.

touching doesnt mean physically in those verses,it mean touch it with your INTELLECT.

They ask thee concerning women's courses. say: they are a hurt and a pollution, so keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. but when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by God. for God loves those who turn to him constantly and he loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.[2-222]


The word Mutahreen in 2.223

thoe who are clean. this verse is about being intimate with your wife.its an inconvenience. it doesnt say she cant touch the qoran.

"لا يمسه إلا المطهرون "
​

"Which none shall touch but those who are clean"[56:79],
and the meaning of "who are clean" is whom clean from "major ritual impurity/الجنابة" or whom get out the "excrement" or "urine" from them which mean in arabi" الحدث"...back to the tafssir aljalalyn


read my answer above. Why would God place hurdles in the way of approaching His Guidance?i doesnt make sense.
let me tell you about the tafsirs and translations(and Jalalayin) :


Men are rulers of women and because some spend on others from their earnings, they have been given supremacy over others. Therefore, good women are obedient and guard themselves against the unknown, even when nobody is looking. As for those women whom you are afraid would be disobedient, you should advise them, confine them to their rooms and beat them. If they listen to you and obey then spare them. Surely God is great (4:34). (From the translation of Shah Rafiudin)

This translation tells you that because they earn and spend on women, men are the rulers. A woman is thus duty-bound to be obedient to man; and if she is not, then he can beat her.

important point. When I say that our traditional translations do not give a correct understanding of the Quran, an objection is raised that as those learned translators were seasoned scholars of Arabic, how is it possible that they could not translate correctly? To day, we have Muslim countries whose mother tongue is Arabic, and if they, too, have not understood the correct meanings of the Quran, then who else would?

For instance, let us examine a relevant verse (4:34). In this verse "Qawwamun" has been translated as Ruler. Our ancestors consulted the Arabic commentaries to understand the meaning of "Qawwamun." In "Kashaaf" its meaning has been written as "Musaitarin" which means "supervisors" and "Jalalain" had the equivalent word "Mutasalleteen" which means the one who imposes one's will on others. It is obvious that when our translators noticed that these scholars of literature and their commentaries have ascribed such meanings, they, too, translated it as "Ruler". This is the correct translation of the words which are the equivalent of "Qawwamun" as used in these books; but not of the Quranic word "Qawwamun".

we should try to understand how this faulty comprehension crept into these commentaries.



irst of all let me explain this point, i mean when we should do the ritual ablution/الغسل/algussel ....with "evidence" form the quran and the sunna

1-when the sperm get out,[ some of sholer said: when we had the enjoyment while the sperm flow out not just when the sperm get out]cus allah said:
"وإن كنتم جنبا " which mean "if ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bath your whole body." [5-6],and in other aya, when he spoke about prays, and as u know we read the quran in the pray/salat, he said :
"يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تقربوا الصلاة وأنتم سكارى حتى تعلموا ما تقولون ولا جنبا إلا عابري سبيل حتى تغتسلوا ", "Ye who believe approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say, nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body."
So we should do the gusel when the sperm get out ..


Before i answer this,can you please tell me what the sunna is? what is in the qoran?what does salat mean?why you dont follow the qoran and tel me what scholars said,when you can tell me what the qoran tell..?


2-when the glans get into xxxx :
cus the prophet said:"When a man sits between the woman’s legs and pushes hard, Ghusl (bath) becomes mandatory with or without ejaculation." (Muslim vol 1 Bab-il-Wudhu pg 485)

3-when the infidel convert to islam .
4-death, cus when some one died, we shoul wash him ..
5-menstruation
6-confinement
so when u used this word" mutahuron" u didn't use it as we should, and as u know the Quran revealed in arabic, and we should know what words mean in arabic to translate it, and as i know mutauron don't mean :" Those who rid their minds of blind following and false dogmas" !!

allah said in ayat albakara, aya 2:

ويسألونك عن المحيض قل هو أذى فاعتزلوا النساء في المحيض ولا تقربوهن حتى يطهرن فإذا تطهرن فأتوهن من حيث أمركم الله إن الله يحب التوابين ويحب المتطهرين

the the translated of this surah is:

They ask thee concerning women's courses. say: they are a hurt and a pollution, so keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. but when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by God. for God loves those who turn to him constantly and he loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.

explain why lods of women (none muslim professors,students ) TOUCH the qoran when they have menstruation?If Allah said no one CAN touch it,then how can it happen ? what is a law according to the qoran? how is a law defined?pleasse ask your scholars.




~~


my dear u still mix between alfared/الفرض, and between alsunna, i mean fared alwodowe/ablution/الوضوء, is :
1-washing the face ,
2-washing the hands[and arms] to the elbows
3 rubing the heads
4-rubing/ washing the feet to the ankles
this from holu quran
5-aligning, i mean we should do these steps, step by step, from 1 to 4, not one before one, (this is from the sunna, but came as a necessity)


can you tell me where in the qoran it is said you HAVE to do it in this order? Can you also prove to me that the hadith you are using here is CONFIRMED by the prophet? what is the proof of this being TRUE?

BUT the sunan/سنن of ablution/الوضوء are:

1-facing the kaaba, " mecca"
2-tooth cleanser, السواك
3-washing the hands 3 times,
4-gargle your throat[ as u said], and snuffing the water
etc etc.....

So NO one say, u should do that when u do the ablution as a compulsory way, NO one said if u didn't do that ur ablution is valid, the islamist urge on this acts cus the follow the quran and the sunna...

Just prove to me that these words are THe prophet Muhammeds exact words. what tools were used to confirm a quote?and when did the qoran distinguish between sunnah and the qoran?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I can agree with this statement ...from the beginning with few objections, like:

what sunna mean ?

from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_sharia

but why we should follow the sunna?
cus allah said:
"يا أيها الذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول ولا تبطلوا أعمالكم ", " O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and make not vain your deeds!"[47:32]

When did Allah said the phrophet have a different message?

"وأقيموا الصلاة وآتوا الزكاة وأطيعوا الرسول لعلكم ترحمون "," So establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and obey the Apostle; that ye may receive mercy."[24:56]

what word is translated as PRAYER in this aya?

"قل أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول فإن تولوا فإنما عليه ما حمل وعليكم ما حملتم وإن تطيعوه تهتدوا وما على الرسول إلا البلاغ المبين","Say: Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear "[24:54]

"وأطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول واحذروا فإن توليتم فاعلموا أنما على رسولنا البلاغ المبين " Obey God, and obey the apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is our apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."[5:92]

"من يطع الرسول فقد أطاع الله ومن تولى فما أرسلناك عليهم حفيظا "," He who obeys the apostle, obeys God: but if any turn away, we have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds)."[4:80]

"وأطيعوا الله والرسول لعلكم ترحمون "," And obey God and the apostle; that ye may obtain mercy." [3:132]

and the prophet whom the god order us to obay him said:"أوصيكم بتقوى اللّه والسمع والطاعة، وإن عبداً حبشيّاً فإِنه من يعش منكم بعدي فسيرى اختلافاً كثيراً، فعليكم بسنتي وسنة الخلفاء المهديِّين الراشدين تمسكوا بها وعضُّوا عليها بالنَّواجذ، وإياكم ومحدثات الأمور، فإِنَّ كلَّ محدثةٍ بدعةٌ، وكلُّ بدعةٍ ضلالةٌ"[sahih albukhary, hadit :4607], which mean in arabic: follow my sunna, and the sunna of alkhulafa alrashydin ...
so when some one order u to obey some one and that some one ask from u to do something don't contradict with what the first one said, u should obey him ..... and the prophet order us to follow the sunna, do u want from me to explain what is islamic legislation, and what is the sources of it ?

~*~*~*~*~*
-BTW dear "j.a.g" next time when u want to open a thread, titled it with expressed title, and start directly in what u want to say, not like this thread, u write a some thing while u want to debate something else
- my points are so

please do me a favour and answer this: what is in the qoran?

What did the prophet used the quran for?

prove the hadith's to be TRUE.

how do you know your hadith are right,when a shia can come up with his own hadith's.

Why did Allah give us the quran?

how is a law defined in the quran?

tell me some of the main carachters of the qoran?

why do we need another lawbook,when qoran tell us EVERYTHING is explained in the qoran?

how did the hadith explain the qoran? show me some aya's

thank you

 

[j.a.g]

-BTW dear "j.a.g" next time when u want to open a thread, titled it with expressed title, and start directly in what u want to say, not like this thread, u write a some thing while u want to debate something else
- my points are so

what exactly do i want to debate,and what did you understand?

 

[SkinWalker]

-BTW dear "j.a.g" next time when u want to open a thread, titled it with expressed title, and start directly in what u want to say, not like this thread, u write a some thing while u want to debate something else
- my points are so

First, your post was interesting, thanks.

Second, I realize English may not be your first language so I was hoping you could clarify what you meant here. I honestly don't understand your point. Clearly JAG's original post wasn't intended as a "debate" but, rather, a question. Please don't think that every thread in this forum must be a topic of debate (though it does seem that way with some posters).

 

[Z7575]

what exactly do i want to debate,and what did you understand?

i'm not a clever, but in the same time, i had a brain to know and realize whom want to speak about "beard" which refer to muslims looks and it's evidence from the quran and the sunna , and between whom want to speak about the sources of islamic legislation... so my point is, if u want to speak about sunna, or about any thing else, just titled ur thread with suitable title and talk directly, don't start with "beard" then speak about what u want to speak about !!

 

[Z7575]

please do me a favour and answer this: what is in the qoran?

What did the prophet used the quran for?

prove the hadith's to be TRUE.

how do you know your hadith are right,when a shia can come up with his own hadith's.

Why did Allah give us the quran?

how is a law defined in the quran?

tell me some of the main carachters of the qoran?

why do we need another lawbook,when qoran tell us EVERYTHING is explained in the qoran?

how did the hadith explain the qoran? show me some aya's

thank you

Okay, Okay, but not now, it's 12:40 am here.....good night
and Peace

 

[S.A.M.]

Hi S.A.M

In early publications, we find the ahadith of the Messenger, the sayings of confereesR and declarations of tabaeenR are all together. The later generations began to compile the ahadith of Messenger separately. These compilations are named Musnid e Hind. The first Musnid was written in early third century by Abdullah bin Moosa. After him followed, Musdood Basri, Asad bin Moosa, Naeem bin hamad and others. These were followed by the next generations. For example, Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Is’haaq bin Rahu’via, Uthman bin abi Shay’ba and others. In the fourth category comes Imam BokhariR (died hijra 252), who attempted to compile only the genuine ahadith. After him, followed his student Imam Muslim Nishapuri (died hijra 261). Both of these scholar’s books are named ‘Sahiheen.’ Following these books, the writing of ahadith became a popular occupation among hadithists.

Lets look at it in a different way. What is isnad? Isnad is the chain of narration or what we call as a validation of the author[ity] of a collected hadith. For approximately 100 years after the Prophets death, the Rashidun did not permit the writing down of the words and deeds of the Prophet, because Mohammed instructed his people to follow the Quran and not write down anything else. There is, ironically, a hadith that says that:


حدثنا ‏ ‏إسماعيل ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏همام بن يحيى ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏زيد بن أسلم ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عطاء بن يسار ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي سعيد ‏ ‏قال ‏
قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏لا تكتبوا عني شيئا سوى القرآن ومن كتب شيئا سوى القرآن فليمحه ‏

Do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it. (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10713)

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=10713

So it was only a couple of centuries later that people started collecting what the Prophet said or did. To put that into perspective, try collecting in this day of advanced information technology, what your great great grandfather said about anything at all. Or if you believe that famous people are more memorable, what your grandmother remembers about some famous person in her childhood, that can be independently verified.

Secondly, the science of isnad was developed after some scholars realised that there needed to be a systematic verification of what the Prophet had really said and done. To this end, they began to verify the source of the Hadiths collected. e.g. if the Prophet said, " a long and flowing beard looks great but it is desirable that it should be without a mustache" or something like that, how would the authors confirm this 200 years after his death? They'd try to locate the source of this. Once they found at least two people with a common source, they would examine the history of the quoted source, again based on what the source had said or done, based on what other people said about them. On the basis of a general trend for honesty in discourse or apparent presence of objectivity/lack of bias, some sources were considered more reliable than others. Development of this system, entirely new to them, took another 200 years. Now what to do with unverifiable or dubious sources? Can you throw anything away because there is no way to verify it? That was a dilemma, so they came up with a system of grading based on perceived level of accuracy of hearsay information, based on hearsay information. NOTHING WAS DISCARDED. If it was false, it was marked false. If it was weird or unusual or there was only one confirmed narrator, it was marked accordingly. It was not possible to check secondary sources that had died in the meantime for their primary source, however. So that many of the earlier Hadiths are unreferenced and many of the late ones have impeccable citations. Now even if we assume that people were better able to confirm narrations 700-800 years after Mohammed died, there is still NO WAY to confirm what was actually said, not only by Mohammed, but also by any one narrator to another.

More Hadiths relevant to this:

Abu Said al-Khudri said, Ishaq ibn Isa told me that Abdul Rahman ibn Zaid told us that his father said about Ata ibn Yasar who said that Abu Hurayrah said:
We were sitting down writing what we heard from the prophet. He entered the room and asked us: What are you writing? We said: We are writing what we hear from you. He said: Another book next to the book of Allah? We said: It is what we hear from you. He said: Then write the book of Allah, uphold the book of Allah, no other books but the book of Allah, uphold the book of Allah. Abu Hurayrah said: So we collected all that we wrote and burnt it. Then we asked the prophet: Can we talk about you? He said: Yes you can and feel no shame of it, and whoever lies about me deliberately his seat in hell will be secured. Abu Hurayrah said: Can we talk about Bani Israel? He said: Yes you can and feel no shame of it... (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10611)

Ismail told us that Hammam ibn Yahya narrated from Zaid ibn Aslam who narrated from Yasar who stated that Abi Saeed said: The messenger of Allah said, "Do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10713)

Shu’aib told us that Hammam said that Zaid ibn Aslam narrated from Ibn Yassar who stated that Abi Saeed said: The messenger of Allah said, "Do not write anything I say except the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10715)

Yazid told us that Hammam ibn Yahya narrated from Zaid ibn Aslam who narrated from Yassar who said that Abi Saeed stated: The messenger of Allah said, "Do not write anything I say except the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10781)

Abu Ubayda told us that Hammam ibn Yahya narrated from Zaid ibn Aslam who narrated from Yassar who stated that Abi Saeed said: The messenger of Allah said, "Do not write anything I say except the Quran and whoever writes anything [besides it] should delete it." (Musnad Ahmad, Number 10966)

Affan told us that Hammam told us that Zaid ibn Aslam narrated from Ibn Yassar who stated that Abi Saeed said: The messenger of Allah said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it. (Musnad Ahmad, Number 11160)

Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit:
Al-Muttalib ibn Abdullah ibn Hantab said: Zayd ibn Thabit entered upon Mu'awiyah and asked him about a tradition. He ordered a man to write it. Zayd said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 25, Number 3640)

 

[j.a.g]

i'm not a clever, but in the same time, i had a brain to know and realize whom want to speak about "beard" which refer to muslims looks and it's evidence from the quran and the sunna , and between whom want to speak about the sources of islamic legislation... so my point is, if u want to speak about sunna, or about any thing else, just titled ur thread with suitable title and talk directly, don't start with "beard" then speak about what u want to speak about !!

i do not want to talk about sunna,i want to t talk about the difference between a LAW and a practice wich is NOT legislated through the quran.

i wanted to talk about HOW a law is defined according to the qoran,and later get into the point of sptephen hawkins about Natural laws.

you are the one who brought sunnah,and then i have to debate about sunnah,and a law. if you feel i trapped you into a debate you didnt want to,then im sorry.