Mormons are a CULT!

Re: Mormons are a CULT! is what someone totally ignorant might think.

Originally posted by Chromatose


Okay. Here goes. My belief is that you don't know squat about it. It's no more a cult than any other Christian denomination.
that's MY opinion...
That's two problems there:
1) I know it only too well &
2) mormonism is no more christian than islam, though they both share some ideas & ideals. copycats!!!


Because it doesn't sound like the opinion of anyone who knows didly about the subject.
Ahh!!! A feisty Danite!!!

Ah, crap! Those were too dumb to even be funny.
We Mormons, or in my case non-practicing mormons, are generally relaxed with jokes about them/ourselves unless it's in poor taste about something we hold particularly sacred, which is probably true of any similar group.
Not meant to be funny, Mr. Letterman. Non-practicing? Why defend what you don't practice? Could be you can't stand to have been wrong all those years, or don't want the "blood oath" to be exacted on thine progeny?

I don't attend meetings or practice in general and whether that has any effect one way or the other, i'm not precisely sure.
A jack mormon, what happened mr? too much work to keep up or just plain tired of smiling? (an aside here: Donny & Marie are the only two people that I know of that can smile with all 32 teeth showing!!! Amazing!!!)

Nevertheless those were just lame. Go read about J. Golden Kimbal, known as the swearing Mormon Church Authority. Got in all sorts of trouble for things he said in and about the church and teachings he didn't always obey, being one of the highest leaders, but he was hilarious.
Related to that other "Kimball"?

Pressing on.
Light on the starch, thnx
 
Re: Some answers, at least ...

Originally posted by pragmathen


Some answers, at least ...


Is it true that in the mormon world, Jesus & Lucifer are 'soul' brothers?
Yes, this is true.
That belief alone qualifies mormonism as a cult

Is it true that you do 'blood oaths' during a ceremony to seal you for eternity?
This used to be true, except that the Masonic consequences of revealing the secrets of the temple were taken out of the ceremony in 1991. Many members (especially women) complained that the graphic nature of the consequences (ripping out the tongue, disembowelment, etc.) was too offensive. The church decided to clean up its image internally as well as externally and thus they excinded these parts.
So, why change what the prophet wanted done & follow what humans want? Hmmm...?

And that if you told me, you would be killed by your priests?

By priests? Perhaps. But more likely by God or his angels.
So, a Danite is needed?

Also, is it true that all mormon temples have the devil's pentagram on them?
I seriously doubt it.
I have been through the temple on numerous occasions for everything ranging from washing & anointing, endowments, baptisms for the dead, the like. Oh, and btw, if you ever wonder what the highest hand-shake is in the temple, just rent Conspiracy Theory and notice the exact hand-shake Mel Gibson gives Julia Roberts.
So, what's this on the link below?
http://www.concernedchristians.org/newsletter/august_2002.html
 
Again: Milk before meat

Scenario:

A man walks up to a student who is well-versed in mathematics and says, "I would like to learn how to do Calculus."

"Okay," says the student. "Do you know basic addition and subtraction yet?"

"No, I don't. But I want to learn Calculus, please."

The student frowns. "I'd advise you to learn the basics first before you attempt an advanced subject like Calculus. Go get a basic math education at your local community college, and when you've mastered basic mathematical skills, move on to algebra and trig. After you've mastered algebra and trig, THEN try to learn Calculus."

"But no!" says the man. "I don't want basic math skills. I only want to learn Calculus! I don't believe that basic math skills are necessary for Calculus."

The student looks non-plussed. "Well sir, all I can tell you is, the way I learned Calculus was, I first mastered basic math skills, algebra, trig, geometry, etc., and THEN I tried my hand at Calculus. I suggest you do the same."

The man is incensed. "I DO NOT NEED BASIC MATH SKILLS TO UNDERSTAND CALCULUS!!!"

"Yes, you do," replies the student, getting annoyed.

"No, I DON'T!!! You're just a robot, repeating the same mantra over and over again! You've been brainwashed into believing that basic math skills are needed for a subject as obviously-easy as Calculus! Stupid robot, repeat your programming over and over!"

"Sir, I don't like the tone of voice you're using with me. Please calm down. I'm repeating myself ON PURPOSE so that you will get my message, since you seem to be missing the point over and over again. I'm not a robot, I'm not 'programmed' to tell you my 'mantra.' Again, let me say: you DO need basic math skills BEFORE you will even understand Calculus. Go learn those first."

"Robot! Brainwashed idiot! Just keep repeating your programming then! I'll learn Calculus, and I'll do so WITHOUT learning addition and subtraction!"

"Fine. Fine, you do that," sighs the student, walking away.

"ROBOT!" the student hears as he exits the building.

"Some people," he mutters to himself, shaking his head.
 
Excuse me?

Originally posted by Randolfo
Laughs knowingly, raises 'transdimensional mirror' to object of amusement, waits for same to repeat robot programming, ... "I am robot, must repeat programming, must repeat programming, must repeat..."..., then opens portal so that object of amusement can see themselves in 'transdimensional mirror' , so that they get to see & hear how hilarious their robot programming sounds to others with their own eyes & ears, & that they are "indeed being unwittingly???/unwillingly???/unknowingly??? deceived... :sadeyes: :)-( "

If smashing a statement right back at its originator was evidence of robotic programming, then perhaps you would have a point. My original message that you were quoting was to pumpkin, who had used those exact words against someone else (sans question marks). If I'm not mistaken, pumpkin is also a Christian, no?

That's the problem, if it had been led by true prophets, all its teachings would have past the test of time. Read Deuteronomy 18: 21-22 as to why.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 is about false prophets who speak a thing which doesn't come to pass - you know, kind of like when Jesus promised his audience he would return while some of them still lived?

But as to certain religious and/or cultural traditions standing the test of time, I don't know of many that have. Back in biblical times, a man could sell his daughter into slavery if he wanted to, and he could also kill his son for disobedience. He was also required to kill a man who picked up sticks or built a fire on the Sabbath, or even a brother who expressed interest in a different religion. He could beat his slaves, and as long as those slaves continued to live a day or two, there was no punishment if the slave died later. If he had sex with a female servant, she was to be scourged, but he pretty much got off scot-free - even if he raped her! Back in those days, an engaged woman could be killed for losing her virginity prior to marriage - even if it was by rape! An unengaged woman would have the choice of marrying her rapist. It was not uncommon in those times for a wife to use her handmaid as a brood mare if she was barren. There are all kinds of laws and traditions from biblical times that we don't even really understand the reason for in today's world. We change as we discover we need to change - or we die out. You know, it's kind of like evolution.

But you're probably wishing for the good ole' days right about now, huh Randolfo?
 
Re: Again: Milk before meat

Originally posted by Lamplighter
A man walks up to a student who is well-versed in mathematics and says, "I would like to learn how to do Calculus."

"Okay," says the student. "Do you know basic addition and subtraction yet?"

"No, I don't. But I want to learn Calculus, please."

"Robot! Brainwashed idiot! Just keep repeating your programming then! I'll learn Calculus, and I'll do so WITHOUT learning addition and subtraction!"

"Fine. Fine, you do that," sighs the student, walking away.

"ROBOT!" the student hears as he exits the building.

"Some people," he mutters to himself, shaking his head.
So now mormonism is higher thought? Oh, please!!! You delude yourself in mormonism importance!!! LOL

It's neither milk nor meat; it's cheese with lysteria, interesting taste, but spoiled cheese nonetheless. By the way, nice that you called in the reinforcements, I was beginning to think you were the only mormon on Scifroums, which couldn't be true. But why all these so-called non-practicing types, that still defend their faith? Is that like ex-muslims, that defend their old religion, because its part of their culture. Most ex-christians become atheists, what do ex-mormons become?
 
"Called in the reinforcements"? I did no such thing.

And I absolutely refuse to talk with you, Randolfo, if you keep using derogatory language ("cult," "spoiled cheese," "robot," "brainwashed") to describe me and/or my religion. I don't have to take that from you or anyone else. If you don't learn some common courtesy, count me out of this thread.
 
Raaaaaa-raaa-ra rar rand rando-randol rand-rando-ran randolph randolphphphph

Originally posted by Randolfo
By the way, nice that you called in the reinforcements, I was beginning to think you were the only mormon on Scifroums, which couldn't be true.

I wasn't "called". I thought I was the only one here. Of course, it's unlikely i'll be back unless the quality of discourse increases tremendously.

But why all these so-called non-practicing types, that still defend their faith?

Meaning=null. I didn't say i didn't believe Mormon teachings. And there is no "non-practicing type". :rolleyes: As if all are identical.

Most ex-christians become atheists...

Ahh, you've done a scientific study on that, have you?

Last i heard 90% of people in the US believe in a higher power, somewhere around 80% are christian, and most attend a church of some kind.
 
No thanks, I regard Mormonism as one of the first fruits of a young novelist, namely Joseph Smith, who wrote a fantasy called "The Book of Mormon", which he turned into a religion.

In the book "A Storyteller in Zion", in the chapter "The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice" the well known LDS author Orson Scott Card gives a very clear and concise analysis from many angles, as to why Joseph Smith could not have been the author of the Book of Mormon! And neither could any of his compatriots.

Check it out.
 
-----------------------
Is it true that in the mormon world, Jesus & Lucifer are 'soul' brothers?

Yes, this is true.
--------------------------------

That belief alone qualifies mormonism as a cult

How the heck does that follow?:bugeye:
 
Wishful thinking, what would Jesus say about the LDS?

Hm. Since Jesus and God the Father were the ones who first appeared to Joseph Smith, the LDS will certainly get some aproval. ;)
 
Last edited:
You know a lot more about the LDS church than most of the rank and file members!

Finally, i've completed reading this thread. I won't likely be returning to this forum, so i just want to say to LampLighter:

Congratulations! Very impressive.
You've done incredible work here!


:cool: :)
I learned some things myself.

Heaven knows i would have been a sorry representative to try and explain things. I know enough to tell when something ludicrous is being said about the church, but when it comes to presenting things correctly...
 
Er ... excuse me, pardon

<b>Randolfo</b>

Apparently you haven't read some of my other comments on mormonism if you can't tell whether I'm an apologist or an apostate. That's all right, though, I haven't read all of yours. But I managed to read this one!

As far as the <a href="http://www.concernedchristians.org/newsletter/august_2002.html ">link</a>, I honestly didn't know this. I stand corrected.

So, why change what the prophet wanted done & follow what humans want? Hmmm...?
I join you in your question. But I would like to add something of my own. This change hit me on a more fundamental level. Why would the prophet want to change what God had supposedly instituted just over 150 years ago? Did this make what God had said to be offensive? Did modern-day men deem the words of the Almighty as not streamlined enough? They also took out the part about the evil Catholic priest trying to lead astray the thoughts of men. Apparently that was too offensive as well.

So, a Danite is needed?
Yeah, I guess a good Danite would do. Guess I'll be on the lookout for the ghost of Porter Rockwell.

That belief alone qualifies mormonism as a cult
Mormonism is a cult? What's this?! All organized religion falls into this classification.
 
Chromatose, thank you for the compliment. :) I find that most of the questions asked and accusations made in this thread are easily answered by a handful of well-put-together apologetic sites such as FAIR and All About Mormons. They have done a great job for any serious student of LDS apologetics. When I'm stumped, I go to their sites, and 9 times out of 10 they have the answer.

I don't think I'll be returning to this thread either--it's too accusational and adversarial to be of much use to anyone wanting to know more about the Church. But I do thank you for the kind words.
 
. Since Jesus and God the Father were the ones who first appeared to Joseph Smith, the LDS will certainly get some aproval.


good grief. :eek: :rolleyes:



how do you even know that Joseph Smith was in his right mind when he experinced these "uninvited guests " (hee hee) ??


i mean, maybe the poor man was delusional. he certainly wasn't a saint or even a virgin. know what i mean...so, why would God single him out? i know one thing, i live near the town of Nauvoo, Illinois and they STILL think they did the right thing by booting him out of town for being a heretic and apostate. Lots of interesting history on Joseph Smith in this town that only small town's are ususally privy to. in otherwords, that got the real low-down on J. Smith. oh, yeah. :D



p.s. to all the other's in this thread...if you care to know...i will be back later today to respond to some of the other posts...ta ta.:)
 
Masonry?? yep.

Ok. i found this article/booklet while searching for links on Mormonism, i found it most enlightening. it was written by an ex-mormon who "snuck" into the temple and recorded the ceremony. please read this...it is MOST interesting.


WHAT'S GOING ON IN HERE?

This booklet has been prepared to inform the general public, including most Mormons, and especially the Body of Christians, and to reveal to them of exactly what transpires during the secret Mormon Temple Ceremonies. Our purpose is not to ridicule, but to shed light on these hidden things of darkness. We sincerely believe that Mormons and non-Mormons alike cannot comprehend or accurately evaluate the complex Mormon gospel without knowing what actually transpires inside of the Temple, the place where the Keys of Knowledge necessary for exaltation are imparted to LDS Gods in embryo. We pray earnestly that this information will be especially helpful in encouraging Christians in their witness of the true Lord Jesus Christ to those lost in the deception and bondage Mormonism.

AUTHOR'S PREFACE

This booklet contains the entire series of Mormon Temple ceremonies, called "Ordinances" and is 100% accurate in the essence of what is done, and very nearly 100% accurate in the exact wording of what is said. This is because this edition was transcribed from a tape recording made inside the Temple at the actual Endowment ceremony*. Other ceremonies have been verified by comparing them with copies of Temple Worker Instruction Books

*This booklet is purposely not copyrighted and may be copied or used in any way deemed appropriate.

The tape recording of the Mormon Temple Endowment from which this booklet was transcribed was recorded in the Los Angeles Mormon Temple. The recording was made using a personal pocket size tape recorder carried by one of the patrons during Endowment presentation.

The patron who made this recording entered the Temple using his own personal Temple Recommend and carried his own Temple Veil Worker's name tag and identification card during the ceremony. He was greeted by several Temple Worker acquaintances who obviously did not know of his excommunication from the Mormon Church, which had been at his own request several months earlier.

One of the objectives of this foray was to test the well known Mormon claim of Divinely aided Temple security. Another objective was to provide and up-to-date and accurate text of the Endowment. (There have been many revisions to the Endowment text in the past ten years, some of them significant). Contrary to popular belief of Mormons, not one person in the Temple appeared the slightest bit spiritually or supernaturally alerted to the presence among them of one whom they classify as an "apostate" and a "son of perdition". As he departed, the patron was encouraged by a member of the Temple Presidency to return again soon.
or similar authentic sources, making this the most accurate and up to date rendition of these "secret" ceremonies ever published in the 120 year history of Mormon Temple exposes. The ceremonies have been annotated and explanatory information included to help the reader understand the activities as they progress. Part one contains background information and commentary, including a brief overview of all of the ceremonies in sequence to prepare the reader to understand the dialogue of the ceremonies.

Even though we know that the Authorities of the Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah, will be highly offended at the publication of this work, we do not apologize for doing it. As former Mormons and Temple Workers who are now born again Christians, we acknowledge a great responsibility to the unsuspecting world to expose and reprove with exactness and the light of truth, precisely what activities transpire inside the Mormon temples today.

We heed the admonition of the Apostle Paul to the Ephesian Saints, who had previously participated in similar pagan and occultic rituals, "For ye were sometimes (once) darkness, but now ye are light in the Lord, walk as children of light ... and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove (expose) them ... for it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved (exposed) are made manifest by the light." (Ephesians 5:8, 11-13) We recognize that this is not the first such "expose", but it is the most accurate and current account of the activities of the Mormon temple "Endowment"ever published. We wish to bring it to the attention of concerned people everywhere so that they may be knowledgable concerning this, the most sacred of all activities and teachings to the modern Mormon (see John 18:20). Mormonism cannot be fully understood by Mormons or non-Mormons alike without an understanding these Temple rituals - the "Keystone" of modern Mormon doctrine and theology.

Statistics released in January 1982, by qualified Mormon church authorities indicated that at least three out of every four Mormons (teenage and older) have never participated in these rituals. These non-participating Mormons have been subjected to a variety of powerful propaganda from their leaders, impressing upon them the sacred, holy, and enlightning nature of their Temple "Ordinances", and the great blessings to be obtained through them. This booklet is intended especially for those nonparticipating Mormons, to enable them to recognized the occultic, non-Christian nature of these rituals, and to see them for themselves in the clear light of reality. We are confident that those who will prayerfully evaluate these rites for themselves will be able to see them as they truly are, rather than continuing in the naive belief that they are the sacred vehicle essential to becoming a polygamous god, destined to rule over a new planet for eternity.

Mormons who regularly attend the Temple should also be very interested in this booklet. They will be "dying to find out" if it really contains a "word perfect" rendition of all the Temple rituals, and anxious to find a misplaced word so they can criticize its accuracy. We are pleased to give them the opportunity, with a challenge to call to our attention any errors they believe they detect. We also challenge them to listen more attentatively while attending the Temple, and to compare what they hear with the Bible or the Book of Mormon, which teach an entirely different Gospel and plan of salvation from that presented in the Temple Endowment.

Anyone who is familiar with the rite of Freemasonry will recognize them as the primary source for the tokens, signs, and penalties used in the Temple Endowment. Much of the mystical symbolism of Mormonism is also borrowed from Masonry. The symbolism and practices of the ancient pagan mystery religions associated with nimrod and Babylon are also richly displayed in the Mormon temple and reflected in the doctrines presented therein. Part one of this booklet contains commentary comparing these Mormon rituals with those of other religions and theologies, including Christianity.

PART ONE - EXPLANATION AND COMMENTARY
INTRODUCTON

Mormon Temples are the most secret/sacred facet of Mormonism and are completely different from neighborhood Mormon chapels. Once a new Temple is dedicated, no non-Mormons are ever allowed inside. Most Mormons are not permitted to enter the Temple either. Only Mormons who have passed stringent requirements of worthiness determined by a penetrating private interview with their Bishop, and then a second similar interview with their Stake President, are issued a "Temple Recommend" which permits them to enter the Temple (See figure 1). Temple Recommends are valid for one year after which the entire interview process must be repeated to receive a new Recommend. According to LDS church leaders, less than 20% of adult Mormons have valid Temple Recom mends and thus are qualified to attend the temple. Less than 10% of adult Mormons regularly attend the Temple.**

Before a Mormon is issued his first Temple Recommend, he is normally required to attend a course of study intended to qualify him to "live worthy" or to become qualified to live LDS standards of loyalty, dedication, financial contributions and personal traits of worthiness. Very little of the ceremonial aspects, and none of the promises or penalties of the Temple rituals are included in the ciriculum nor are these ever discus sed at any time outside or inside of the Temple. These are still a mystery to the participants, who are acting on faith in Joseph Smith and the Mormon church's divine authority.

During a member's first participation in the Temple ceremony, he "receives his own endowments" which means he attends to his own personal salvation requirements. In a special instruction ses sion with all the initiates he is asked by the Temple President to make a personal commitment to return to the temple often, at least once per month, to renew his own commitment and to remind him of his covenants while he is serving as a proxy for a

**See the Church News supplement to the Salt Lake City Deseret News, week of January 16, 1982, page 10 for very interesting information on Mormon dedication to this "Keystone of their religion."
deceased person to provide that person with Mormon salvation. He thus becomes a "Savior on Mount Zion" by acting in behalf of someone who did not have this opportunity himself. 
 
oh, and, Lamplighter, you say you're Christian...but, with such heavy influences from the Masons....how on earth could you be?

Anyone who is familiar with the rite of Freemasonry will recognize them as the primary source for the tokens, signs, and penalties used in the Temple Endowment. Much of the mystical symbolism of Mormonism is also borrowed from Masonry. The symbolism and practices of the ancient pagan mystery religions associated with nimrod and Babylon are also richly displayed in the Mormon temple and reflected in the doctrines presented therein. Part one of this booklet contains commentary comparing these Mormon rituals with those of other religions and theologies, including Christianity.
 
Re: Re: Some answers, at least ...

Question:Is it true that in the mormon world, Jesus & Lucifer are 'soul' brothers?

answer by:
Originally posted by pragmathen

Some answers, at least ...


Yes, this is true.
My responce:
Originally posted by Randolfo
That belief alone qualifies mormonism as a cult
answer by:
Originally posted by Chromatose
How the heck does that follow?:bugeye:
My responce:
If you don't know? You must be COMATOSE!!!

:rolleyes: :D :p
 
Re:

Originally posted by Chromatose
Raaaaaa-raaa-ra rar rand rando-randol rand-rando-ran randolph randolphphphph
YYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you crying? Did I hurt your feelings? Or are you going through chromatic changes?
 
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