Mormons are a CULT!

Just a few links

Here are a few excerpts from the enclosed links that relate to the origins of mormonism:
1) the book "View of Hebrews"
2) polygamy
3) false history
4) false translation
5) Masonic rituals

Use "mormonism" AND "origins" for other links,
check out "FARMS" (a mormon group), tying to prove mormon archeology in the new world



Book Review: Origins of the Book of Mormon
Rick Branch
In his book, Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon, David Persuitte gives a fresh look at an old theory. That theory being "that the author of the Book of Mormon had acquired an essential measure of his material and ideas, perhaps even his very `inspiration,' from Ethan Smith's book" View of the Hebrews (p. 2).


http://www.watchman.org/lds/bkmrmrev.htm


Linda King Newell & Valeen Tippets Avery
Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, 2nd ed.
(University of Illinois Press, 1994), 394 pages, paperback, ISBN 0-252-06291-4

The Thorn in Joseph's Side
In Nauvoo, 38-year-old Joseph repeatedly used the claim of divine revelation to coerce teenage girls to become his wives.

http://www.irr.org/mit/enigma.html


A few years after the departure of Lehi and his family, another group of people left Jerusalem and eventually arrived in the New World, where they were discovered by descendants of Nephi. The Book of Mormon gives us only fragments of information about the people of Zarahemla, as they are called. Most of our information comes from Amaleki's small record, which says: "Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon" (Omni 1:15). This does not tell us who either Zarahemla or his people were, but later the Book of Mosiah states: "Now there were not so many . . . of those who were descendants of Nephi, as there were of the people of Zarahemla, who was a descendant of Mulek, and those who came with him into the wilderness" (Mosiah 25:2). From this we learn that Zarahemla was a descendant of Mulek, but who was Mulek? The answer to this question is given much later in a very offhanded manner in the book of Helaman, and we are greatly surprised to find that Mulek was one of the sons of king Zedekiah: "And now will you dispute that Jerusalem was destroyed? Will ye say that the sons of Zedekiah were not slain, all except it were Mulek? Yea, and do ye not behold that the seed of Zedekiah are with us, and they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem?" (Helaman 8:21). The Old Testament tells us that Zedekiah witnessed the slaying of his sons by Nebuchadnezzar's men at Riblah, before he was carried captive to Babylon (2 Kings 25:7). However, the Book of Mormon claims that Mulek, one of Zedekiah's sons, managed to escape.
http://www.mormonstudies.com/parallel.htm


In July 1835 Joseph Smith acquired some Egyptian scrolls, which he immediately started to translate, claiming that the rolls contained the writings of Abraham and Joseph of Egypt. He also began work on an Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar and discovered that the hieroglyphs on the papyri were similar to both Hebrew and to the characters on the plates which contained the Book of Mormon.
After Joseph's death in 1844, the papyri remained in the custody of Emma Smith. In 1856 she sold them to a man named A. Combs. For many years, it was thought that they had been given to a museum in Chicago and that they had been destroyed in the Great Fire of 1871. However, they were discovered in 1966 at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art and were acquired by the Mormon church the following year.
Since their discovery, the papyri have been examined by Egyptologists. Because Joseph copied characters from the papyri and wrote out his translation next to them, it has been possible to determine exactly which one of the papyri supposedly contained the writings of Abraham. This is often referred to as the small Sensen fragment. This papyrus has been translated and is nothing more than a very common funerary text, dating between 100 B.C. and A.D. 100, taken from the Book of Breathings, which is itself a shorter version of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. These texts were placed in coffins or burial chambers to assist the soul of the deceased in the afterlife.

http://www.mormonstudies.com/seer2.htm


MORMON CONNECTION TO MASONRY
A very distinct connection between Mormonism and Masonry exists although many Mormon apologists would disagree. The evidence, to me, is quite clear that Joseph Smith not only borrowed from the Masonic initiation rites he even incorporated anti-Masonic sentiment in the Book of Mormon. This will take some explaining. The underlying theme of the Book of Mormon is the falling away of the Nephites, the clean and blessed people of the American continent. This group of people were supposedly annihilated by the Lamanites. Their remnant being the indigenous people of the American continent. Joseph Smith believed that many of the American Indians were decsendants of these Lamanites.


http://www.mindspring.com/~engineer_my_dna/mormon/masonry.htm
 
Re: It's all in the way you say it

Originally posted by Lamplighter
The charge that the LDS Church "brainwashes" people is one of the most ignorant and asinine statements I've ever heard. And only the ignorant and the disgruntled would ever make such an accusation. You're showing your ignorance, Randolfo.

Okay. Let me say this in "Randolfo-speak" so you will understand it.

Your constant misinterpretation of my words is at the very least annoying and downright dishonest if you're doing it on purpose. Please stop attributing to me things I didn't say. I didn't say that I consider Christianity "just another world religion." You inferred it because you are brainwashed into believing that Mormons are a cult.

Peace (!).
Showing anger? What’s the matter? Peace.
Can I use LDS speak? Believe me that I am sincere in my beliefs, I bear testimony that what I say is true, mormonism is false, the result of a mixture of ideas that Joseph Smith put together for all to follow. I implore you, follow Jesus!!!
 
yeah....don't follow Joseph Smith....he's only gonna get you lost...besides....he's dead.

anyways...i will respond to this thread later...lots of good stuff has been written recently...i will be back later today to reply.

oh, btw...Lamp, you asked earlier if i was a male or female...i am a female. :)
 
MORMON CONNECTION TO MASONRY
A very distinct connection between Mormonism and Masonry exists although many Mormon apologists would disagree. The evidence, to me, is quite clear that Joseph Smith not only borrowed from the Masonic initiation rites he even incorporated anti-Masonic sentiment in the Book of Mormon. This will take some explaining. The underlying theme of the Book of Mormon is the falling away of the Nephites, the clean and blessed people of the American continent. This group of people were supposedly annihilated by the Lamanites. Their remnant being the indigenous people of the American continent. Joseph Smith believed that many of the American Indians were decsendants of these Lamanites.


as i stated in this thread earlier...i have been doing some more reading on the subject at hand(momons and masonic rites)...and, yeah...there is a lot of funny stuff (and, i don't mean funny ha ha) going on in regards to the Masonic order and the Mormon church. i love the way joseph smith plagarizes (yeah, Lamp, unfortunately, your man did "borrow" ideas from other's and then he used it in a very manipulative way to bring about his "newfound" religion" . and, i do believe that the current leaders of the Mormon church are still "updating" all those earlier plagarized ideas of Joseph's..


hmmm....i am beginning to wonder of the church in salt lake city isn't actually harboring the future anti-christ....or, maybe the future is now.
 
Lamplighter..

...hmm...maybe i was being a bit harsh...the bishop as an "antichrist"


....well, anyways, come back and finish this debate... don't let the idea that the bishop sitting in that temple in Utah might actually be the ONE...


Lamp, have you even read about the Masonic temple order/rites and such?? do you actually agree with these principles??!
 
Re: Lamplighter..

Originally posted by pumpkinsaren'torange
[B
....well, anyways, come back and finish this debate... don't let the idea that the bishop sitting in that temple in Utah might actually be the ONE...


Lamp, have you even read about the Masonic temple order/rites and such?? do you actually agree with these principles??! [/B]
I don't think Lamplighter thought of it as a debate, but as his 'holy' duty to us pagans & sectarian apostates. He needed to light the lamp of his faith into our souls, to bring his 'true light' to our 'blind' eyes. Anyway, I think this will be one of the last posts unless some other mormon weighs in, or he sics his bishop on us. So, I think that he has washed his hands of us 'gentiles' and left the building.
Actually, I think that islam is in firstplace for anti-Christ status, their mosque sits atop of the Temple Mount as the "abomination of desolation" spoken of in the Bible.
Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:7-13: Dan 12:9-11

See the links below for other views:
http://www.bible.ca/pre-mt24-abomination.htm
http://www.whyprophets.com/prophets/a_of_d.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01046a.htm

Check these links for stuff on mormon origins & researchers.
http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/why.htm
http://www.lds-mormon.com/sor.shtml
http://www.lds-mormon.com/quest.shtml

Check this out for temple rituals & designs:
http://www.concernedchristians.org/newsletter/august_2002.html
 
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pumpkins, I've never been through the temple (except as a teenager when I did some baptisms for the dead) and I haven't studied Masonry, so I can't really comment on that.

--

Randolfo wrote,

I don't think Lamplighter thought of it as a debate, but as his 'holy' duty to us pagans & sectarian apostates.

No, not really. But it was turning into a debate, and like it or not, I'm not supposed to debate my religion, so I left. My computer is not functioning, so I have to use my father's just to reply. No, I don't think you're a pagan, but don't you call yourself a "sectarian"? I wasn't aware that this term gave offense.

He needed to light the lamp of his faith into our souls, to bring his 'true light' to our 'blind' eyes.

The name "Lamplighter" came from a hotel of the same name in a town I used to live in. I chose it as a user name because it popped into my head when I was trying to think of a good name, not because I think I need to "light people's lamps with my true light." It was just a random name selection.

Anyway, I think this will be one of the last posts unless some other mormon weighs in, or he sics his bishop on us. So, I think that he has washed his hands of us 'gentiles' and left the building.

I don't think I've ever thought of anyone as a "gentile" in my entire life. But you're right in thinking that I don't want to debate religion. It's hard not to, actually, because I love a good debate when I am somewhat knowledgeable on the subject. But anyway: the Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true also. That is my testimony.

I've told you how to gain your own testimony of the BoM. If you don't listen, there is not an argument in all the world that will convince you, because Moroni's Promise is the way to find out for yourself within your heart. All the anti-Mormon arguments in the world cannot dislodge God's true witness within your heart.

Peace.
 
Originally posted by Lamplighter
But anyway: the Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true also. That is my testimony.

I've told you how to gain your own testimony of the BoM. If you don't listen, there is not an argument in all the world that will convince you, because Moroni's Promise is the way to find out for yourself within your heart. All the anti-Mormon arguments in the world cannot dislodge God's true witness within your heart.

Peace.

This is a mormon organization that wants to prove the BoM is true:
http://www.farms.byu.edu/

This is what a Christian organization has to say about the BoM:
http://www.concernedchristians.org/faq/bom.htm
http://www.concernedchristians.org/library/topical/claims.html
By the way, the following was claimed as being brought by Israelites into the New World in the BoM, yet no evidence exists that anything on this list made it here until after Columbus in 1492:

Silk, Horses, Cement, Steel, Iron, Coins, Donkeys, Cattle, Cow, Oxen, Pigs, Grain and Wheat.
By the way, there is no way that a stone age people could withstand these Israelites, there should have been several ancient empires with Jewish kings leading Hebrew-speaking & writing peoples here in the Americas if the BoM were true. There should have been wheels, arches, alphabet or cuneiform writing, metal tools, Old World crops, etc. here, but again, not until after Columbus. Why? Because there was no major contact until 1492. By the way, the only Europeans to pre-date that (the Vikings) left evidence from the 1000’s, real archeological you can dig in the dirt evidence. Why? Because they were in Greenland & Labrador, they also had descendants in Iceland that told tales about Eric the Red in their sagas. Evidence, that’s what’s needed to prove the BoM true, not heartfelt testimonies.
By the way Lamplighter, you were being disingenuous, when you responded to the following quote:

Originally posted by Randolfo
This is why BYU sends teams to Mesoamerica, trying to prove that these so-called lost tribes (the Lamanites and Nephites, the Jaredites), influenced the Olmec, Mayas etc.

By stating the following on 11-04-02 at 03:37 AM:

Originally posted by Lamplighter
And the Book of Mormon doesn't claim to be a history of the "Ten Lost Tribes of Israel." You're getting your information wrong.
Peace.

Now tell me Lamplighter, just who are the Lamanites and Nephites, the Jaredites supposed to be? If not part of the “Ten Lost Tribes”? Hmmm? Read the BoM lately?
Except for the Vikings, there's no real evidence that any other culture had an impact on any native American tribe.

No stories, no place names, no family names, no words or common languages, no foods, no writing, no art, no animals, no technology, no resistance to diseases, no genetics.

If you look at history, any primitive tribe exposed to advanced cultures, usually takes up aspects of that culture. Look at New Guinea and Polynesia. If you follow stories of the Jews, you would know that in southern Africa they were able to prove via dna tests that the Lemba tribe are Jewish descendents via the Aaronic-line, by following the priestly genes of males (Cohen). And these genes matched Jews from Israel and the Diaspora. The Lemba also had stories, Kosher laws and customs. Yet they were as black as any African, in other words they looked native!

Here in the New World, no genetic matches yet. And any one coming over with iron, steel or ship-building technology would have made a huge impact on stone age people here. Yet, except for precious metals and some tin, there's no evidence that any tribe was other that stone age. Anybody with metal swords would have become kings under any of the warrior cultures here, like the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas to name a few. There should have been words for Europeans or Asians in common, for those tribes that had previously been exposed to Israelites. So that, when they came in contact with white, black or yellow people after 1492 (supposedly again), they should have been called by mythological names that could be traced to their ancient homelands. Such as Jawhudi or Ashraylee. Don't you think? They should have had elephants, horses, etc. in their art. They should have some common writing, which except for the Mayan glyphs and Aztec picture drawing there is no evidence that that any American tribe used writing. There has to be some tangible evidence.

Look at the Mexican people, they are a mixture of Spanish & Indian, it’s in the genes.
The Mexican Spanish dialect, it has Aztec & other Indian words in it.
Mexican food, it has Spanish & native foods mixed together.
Mexican art & architecture, is a mix of European & Indian styles. Why? There was definite contact here.
Anyway, there is usually proof left, the Vikings left long houses, bones and stories.
All the Lamanites, the Nephites, the Jaredites didn't leave a thing. Why? Because it was wishful thinking & fantasizing by J. Smith. End of story.

By the way, why should I do the moroni thing for a book that barely rates with L. Ron Hubbard or “Jack and the Beanstalk”? The BoM is a fantasy, if you live according to it, then you are no better or worse than my brothers & sisters that dress up as Klingons & Starfleet.
Would you bear your testimony on what Gene Roddenberry wrote? Should not people do the moroni thing to it? Is it not worthy of adulation & praise for the visions of its author? Many people think so. Live long and prosper!
That’s my testimony

 
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Again, Randolfo, two things:

1) I do not debate Mormonism, as a matter of policy, and

2) I know that the BoM is true from an inner spiritual witness, much more than an intellectual one, although the latter is also convincing to me. Prove from scientific evidence that Jesus was bodily resurrected and I will be more inclined to believe anything you say about the Book of Mormon and the church I belong to. Otherwise, the arguments you present have been refuted for many, many years. Anti-Mormons tend to repeat the same old charges, no matter how many times they've been answered by Mormon scholars. Check out http://www.fairlds.org/ (Foundation for Apologetics and Information Research) if you're inclined to want answers of an intellectual nature as well as spiritual ones.

And by the way, the BoM is not intended, was never intended, to be a history book. It is a witness of Jesus Christ and "another testament" that He does indeed live, and that he cares for all men, wherever they happen to live. Critics of the New Testament also tend to overlook the spiritual message Jesus gave while trying to prove that he couldn't possibly have worn sandals or some silly unprovable thing. The messages of the Bible and the Book of Mormon are testimonies to the world of Christ, and spiritual instructions on how to live and get along with your fellow man, and ultimately, how to get saved. As history books, they BOTH leave much to be desired. But then, if you're looking at them as history books, perhaps you're looking beyond the mark.

Peace.
 
Originally posted by Lamplighter
Again, Randolfo, two things:

1) I do not debate Mormonism, as a matter of policy,
So then, what exactly what are you doing then? Seems to me you went to the same school of English that Bill Clinton did, where you can use words as you see fit?
I'm not debating either, I'm informing.
Click link below please:

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/debate

2) I know that the BoM is true from an inner spiritual witness, much more than an intellectual one, although the latter is also convincing to me.
"I am robot, must repeat programming, must repeat programming, must repeat...". One day the mormons may have to own up to the fact that 2 of its so-called 'holy books' are fantasies; the BoM & the Book of Abraham. Read up on it, if you dare! "I am robot, must repeat programming, must repeat programming, must repeat...".

Prove from scientific evidence that Jesus was bodily resurrected and I will be more inclined to believe anything you say about the Book of Mormon and the church I belong to. Otherwise, the arguments you present have been refuted for many, many years.
Actually, it was up to the Romans & Jews to find Jesus' body, since it would have proved christianity wrong at its inception. Mormonism is another matter, the BoM claims whole civilizations, with artifacts & the bones of thousands (not just one body). These civilizations modern archeologists have not found, though looking far & wide, they find only Native Americans. Hmmm..., I wonder what that proves?

Anti-Mormons tend to repeat the same old charges, no matter how many times they've been answered by Mormon scholars. Check out http://www.fairlds.org/ (Foundation for Apologetics and Information Research) if you're inclined to want answers of an intellectual nature as well as spiritual ones.
"I am robot, must repeat programming, must repeat programming, must repeat...".
No seriously, I think pro-mormons do the same thing you accuse me of, but they are not intellectually honest, because no one wants to be wrong, they overlook glaring faults. By the way, just answering me with your tired old programming does not mean that this is closed to debate or discussion, these mormon so-called scholars' answers are in the order of { 2+2 = 3 }, now that may work in the mormon worldview, but 99.999999% of the world would say, "NO, that does not answer the question".


And by the way, the BoM is not intended, was never intended, to be a history book. It is a witness of Jesus Christ and "another testament" that He does indeed live, and that he cares for all men, wherever they happen to live. Critics of the New Testament also tend to overlook the spiritual message Jesus gave while trying to prove that he couldn't possibly have worn sandals or some silly unprovable thing. The messages of the Bible and the Book of Mormon are testimonies to the world of Christ, and spiritual instructions on how to live and get along with your fellow man, and ultimately, how to get saved.
Then it's an allegory? There were no Jays, Neps or Lams? Since I do believe in the Bible, I will not overlook these silly little things called "truth", "facts", "history", "reason", "logic" & "faith"
http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_migr.htm
http://www.concernedchristians.org/library/topical/claims.html

As history books, they BOTH leave much to be desired. But then, if you're looking at them as history books, perhaps you're looking beyond the mark.

Peace.
Wrong again, you are so brain-washed that even simple things escape you, do yourself a favor, go online & check every major college that has an archeology or anthropology department & see if they have biblical or mormon archeology offered or studied there, if they have no mormon archeology, ask them "why?" I wouldn't wait for an answer too long, you might turn old & gray before they stop laughing. As far as Biblical archeology, well just check up at your local bookstore or the web, they are still finding things there, like James' ossuary just recently. Oh, did any one ever tell you about the Hittites? They were mentioned in the Bible, but since no one had ever found any hint of their civilization, most historians & archeologists thought they were fictitious, well lo & behold, their temples & ruined cities are found in present-day Turkey. Still waiting for that to happen for the Jays, Neps & Lams of the BoM, it won't happen though, it's like waiting for the tooth fairy or the easter bunny. By the way, if you are serious about the BoM, join the following org, they need your help desperately!!!
http://farms.byu.edu/
 
Originally posted by Lamplighter
Thus ends my conversation with Randolfo.
What? You didn't even answer my questions? No fair, you left us hanging without telling us the following secrets:
Is it true that in the mormon world, Jesus & Lucifer are 'soul' brothers?
Is it true that you do 'blood oaths' during a ceremony to seal you for eternity?
And that if you told me, you would be killed by your priests?
Also, is it true that all mormon temples have the devil's pentagram on them?
Don't go, tell us!!!
 
Some answers, at least ...

Is it true that in the mormon world, Jesus & Lucifer are 'soul' brothers?
Yes, this is true.

Is it true that you do 'blood oaths' during a ceremony to seal you for eternity?
This <i>used</i> to be true, except that the Masonic consequences of revealing the secrets of the temple were taken out of the ceremony in 1991. Many members (especially women) complained that the graphic nature of the consequences (ripping out the tongue, disembowelment, ect.) was too offensive. The church decided to clean up its image internally as well as externally and thus they excinded these parts.

And that if you told me, you would be killed by your priests?
By priests? Perhaps. But more likely by God or his angels.

Also, is it true that all mormon temples have the devil's pentagram on them?
I seriously doubt it.

I have been through the temple on numerous occasions for everything ranging from washing & anointing, endowments, baptisms for the dead, the like. Oh, and btw, if you ever wonder what the highest hand-shake is in the temple, just rent Conspiracy Theory and notice the exact hand-shake Mel Gibson gives Julia Roberts.
 
Originally posted by pumpkinsaren'torange
Mormonism is indeed false. i actually feel sorry for you that you are indeed being unwittingly/unwillingly/unknowingly deceived....

May I assume you are Christian? If so, then I feel sorry for you that you are indeed being unwittingly???/unwillingly???/unknowingly??? deceived... :rolleyes:

I'm not sure why you think your religion is any better, pumkin. At least the Mormon church changes when it sees that something isn't working anymore.
 
Originally posted by muscleman
Jesus is the Lord, Jesus said Himself "Before Abraham was, I am", meaning he is the alpha and the omega, the begining and the end, Jesus is the Lord, Jesus is God, whoever dont proclaim this is the false messiah, that is to come into the world and decieve many working with the red dragon in Revelation (symbol for communism, such as china)

Has no one ever told you? Jesus is the dragon in Revelation. :eek: How do you think he's managed to take 1/3 of the world with him down that path called Christianity? All the time you've been looking for this great deceiver, and he's been under your nose the entire time!

Besides, Jesus doesn't have the correct pedigree to be the Messiah. Sorry.
 
Mormons are a CULT! is what someone totally ignorant might think.

Originally posted by pumpkinsaren'torange
my belief is that Mormonism is nothing but a big, gigantic cult.

Okay. Here goes. My belief is that you don't know squat about it. It's no more a cult than any other Christian denomination.

that's MY opinion...

Glad you cleared that up. Because it doesn't sound like the opinion of anyone who knows didly about the subject.

Ah. A top 10 list! :)

The Top Ten Reasons "NOT" to Join the Mormon Church.
10. Performing Blood Atonement ruins a good suit of clothes.
9. By the time you become prophet, you're too old to enjoy it.
8. Temple worker wants to "bless" the fruit of my loins.
7. After you become a God, you only get Sundays off.
6. Boyd K. Packer is going to be the next prophet. (Yuck!)
5. Polygamy: Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
4. Wife doesn't want to spend eternity with me.
3. If you've heard one testimony, you've heard them all.
2. Book of Mormon: Boring

And the #1 reason NOT to join the Mormon Church:

1. DON'T WANT TO GO TO HELL!!!

Ah, crap! Those were too dumb to even be funny. :rolleyes:
We Mormons, or in my case non-practicing mormons, are generally relaxed with jokes about them/ourselves unless it's in poor taste about something we hold particularly sacred, which is probably true of any similar group.

I don't attend meetings or practice in general and whether that has any effect one way or the other, i'm not precisely sure.

Nevertheless those were just lame. Go read about J. Golden Kimbal, known as the swearing Mormon Church Authority. Got in all sorts of trouble for things he said in and about the church and teachings he didn't always obey, being one of the highest leaders, but he was hilarious.

Pressing on.
 
Originally posted by ubermich
its not as if what pumpkin's saying isnt supported w/ evidence. actually, i really enjoy listening to scathing diatribes that can't be argued w/

It's mostly BS backed up by sources (except some of the church members writings) which are just BS spewed by other anti-mormons. Real convincing.

hmm, and now i have another reason to dislike mormons. they're racist. of course, i really dont care if the church was segregated up until 1978. personally, i can't see why blacks would bother trying to find equality in a shithole. civil rights should help you better your living conditions, not help you fight for your right to a piece of shit cult.

You know. Your problem is, you sound like an airhead! No way is the LDS church a cult and they certainly aren't racist or bigoted. If there's a shithole here is the one you're head's wedged up.
 
Originally posted by Nehushta
May I assume you are Christian?
Actually, I'm Ma'Draken, waiting for the most opportune season to absorb all your puny earthlings' lifeforce, you need to evolve larger souls! so that I do not have wait so long for the harvest time!!
Obey me!!!

Actually, for me you don't have to assume, the answer is "yes". For the rest, read their posts on this thread to find out, go to the link on members' name for their likes, beliefs, etc.. or wait for their answers.


If so, then I feel sorry for you that you are indeed being unwittingly???/unwillingly???/unknowingly??? deceived... :rolleyes:
Laughs knowingly, raises 'transdimensional mirror' to object of amusement, waits for same to repeat robot programming, ... "I am robot, must repeat programming, must repeat programming, must repeat..."..., then opens portal so that object of amusement can see themselves in 'transdimensional mirror' , so that they get to see & hear how hilarious their robot programming sounds to others with their own eyes & ears, & that they are
"indeed being unwittingly???/unwillingly???/unknowingly??? deceived... :sadeyes: :)-( "


I'm not sure why you think your religion is any better, pumkin. At least the Mormon church changes when it sees that something isn't working anymore.
That's the problem, if it had been led by true prophets, all its teachings would have past the test of time. Read Deuteronomy 18: 21-22 as to why.
 
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