Miracles for money..

Bells said:
Hinn is nothing more than a charlatan, a thief and a fraud. He preys on the most vulnerable and he profits from their pain and desperation.
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:thumbsup: I was flipping channels one night and saw this clown on. I watched it for about 10 mins, which was all I could stomache. I couldn't beleive ppl fall for his BS! I was also starting to wonder if I was watching the shopping network with the amount of crap he was trying to sell.
 
Benny Hinn is fleecing people and making a fortune doing it. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the suckers he fleeces. They deserve it.
 
Hey, its survival of the fittest. Whether its American Idol or American Preacher or American President. Its all paid for by the adoring public.

Why not?
 
I'm all for it. If the public wants it, they have a right to it. Its not illegal.

People pay to hear Dawkins squawk and he makes money from books against God.

He's also declared himself a charity and flits around the world on public expense.

Same thing.
 
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We dont see see too much from other countries so it is hard to criticize it. Is American media that big around the world?
 
Lori_7 said:
Do you really think it's a good idea to tell people what they should and should not think or feel? I don't. I'm not telling you what to think. And unfortunate as it is, stupid people make stupid investment decisions. I see poor people all the time buying drugs and lottery tickets with the last few dollars they've got to try to escape their problems until they get some miracle "cure". And there is no miracle cure! The term "miracle" is very relative too. I mean, you could say that everything is a miracle. Life is a miracle. And at the same time you could then say that nothing is a miracle. The point is that God's power is not to be purchased. It's not for sale. So the fact that these people aren't able to buy it is a good thing. What if they could? What would that mean? Think about it. Listen, I've had my dealings with the Lord so I know better. Maybe that's the whole point...before investing, you should know who you're dealing with. Benny Hinn doesn't guarantee these people something. How could he?
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My apologies. What I meant to say that I think some of these people do deserve some pity.

(Q) said:
Benny Hinn is fleecing people and making a fortune doing it. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the suckers he fleeces. They deserve it.
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Part of me wants to agree with you and Lori. Sometimes I think my cousin is an idiot for having bought into it. Hell, she is an idiot for having bought into it. But then I start to think about how desperate some actually are and how through that desperation, they are completely taken advantage of.

Nearby sat seven-year-old Bernie Hudson. The bright-eyed Cairns local, who was born with spina bifida and now suffers scoliosis, begged parents Ken and Karen to bring her along. She sat in her small wheelchair and waited, excited about the possibility of being able to walk.

"She gets up every morning at 5.30am to watch Benny's show This Is Your Day!" Ms Hudson said.

"She watches the pastor healing other people, and thought maybe he could do something for her."
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23224684-3102,00.html
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I mean, that just makes me want to cry.

Sam said:
I'm all for it. If the public wants it, they have a right to it. Its not illegal.

People pay to hear Dawkins squawk and he makes money from books against God.

He's also declared himself a charity and flits around the world on public expense.

Same thing.
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With one major difference. Dawkins does not tell people to stop taking their medication and to stop their medical treatment because God will cure them.. if they pay the amount that God asks them to, of course. What Hinn does is downright dangerous. And he is allowed to do this with no repercussions.

It's not the same thing at all. Dawkin's actions do not lead people to their death, nor does he convince them that they should give their money to him (in their greatest time of need) because God has told them they should.

The problem is that it is not illegal. It should be illegal. The only reason it is not is because he claims his ministry as being a religion.

John99 said:
Personally I never watched any of them and barely even know what Benny Hinn looks like but you guys outside of U.S need to lighten up a little.
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Lighten up a little? It doesn't bother you that someone could travel the world, fleecing desperate and sick people who have no legal recourse when it all fails?:bugeye:
 
People are free to swallow any BS unfortunately, even the ones who pay through the nose for therapy, real and imagined.
 
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Bells said:
I don't just think he should be taxed. He's treating it like a business and virtually forcing people to give their much needed money to him. He should be thrown in jail for preying on the most vulnerable in our society. Only he gets away with it because he hides behind the blanket of 'religion'.
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I don't think the government should be involved in people's private affairs. If you want to give money to God, you should be allowed to. It's your money, right?
 
Bells:
"Lighten up a little? It doesn't bother you that someone could travel the world, fleecing desperate and sick people who have no legal recourse when it all fails?"

I wouldnt exactly call it fleecing, he is making his money off of sheer volume. But like i said, is it really that big of a deal?

Sam:
"even the ones who pay through the nose for therapy."

Just recently there was this guy who used a meat clever to kill someone, who did he kill?

HIS THERAPIST.
 
Here it is, Finland not US. Probably listened to one too many Dawkins theories, eh?


I am prepared to fight and die for my cause, . . . I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection. No, the truth is that I am just an animal, a human, an individual, a dissident . . . . It’s time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!
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A social darwinist no less

http://news.aol.co.uk/finland-school-gunman-dies/article/20071107070809990002

Don't have to be a Christian to create victims.
 
Leo Volont said:
Do we begrudge Sir Paul McCartney's fortune? Or Madonna's? Or that awful skank's Britney Speer's?
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If their fortunes were made by milking their concert-goers for every dime they had, all the while promising to magically "heal" their worst ailments, diseases, and physical deformities, then, yes, we would necessarily begrudge them.
 
What about atheists who spread a nocebo effect among people?

Should they be held responsible for any resultant suicides or deaths?
 
SkinWalker said:
Stay on topic. Please.
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Sorry for any dissonance, I am addressing this point.

Asguard said:
i agree with you bells. However i wonder if we SHOULD be shutting down all faith healers because the placibo effect CAN work where moden med fails. So we do need to be carfull that we dont kill people in an effort to protect them
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The nocebo effect is also known.

Doctors use the placebo effect automatically in their work. For example, they behave confidently and reassuringly even when completely stumped by the patient's symptoms or faced suddenly with a life-threatening disorder. They are right to behave this way. A doctor's anxiety would trigger the placebo effect's evil twin, the nocebo effect. "Nocebo" means "I will harm," and nocebos really do harm. Patients may be ill for longer periods and suffer worse symptoms if nocebo effects convince them that they are doomed.
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http://mindfulhack.blogspot.com/2006_12_26_archive.html

And recognised:

The clinical role of spirituality was well addressed by Speck, Higginson and Addington-Hall (1). Despite recognized positive effects of spiritual experiences, significant equivocality exists about its clinical relevance. From this, arise several issues. First, the synonymous use of spiritual and religious may pose both heuristic and practical clinical difficulty. Spiritual events manifest properties of transcendence, emotionality and alteration in physical experience. Religion may be a vehicle through which existential explanatory models and noetic properties of spiritual experiences are induced, framed and assume meaning. However, secular beliefs and experiences can be equally powerful and thus “spiritual”. Explanatory models affect patients’ locus of control and well-being (2). Perhaps revised semiotics would be beneficial to both physicians and patients.

Second, spiritual experience involves distinct neural mechanisms . Engagement of these substrates may produce many of the subjective feelings of the noetic event, and are partly responsible for the activation of extra-neural events that mediate pain and recuperation (3). Subjective properties of such experiences (qualia) appear crucial for the induction of physiologic mechanisms and concomitant salutogenic effects. Therefore, clinicians might incorporate these phenomena to affect both objective health and patients’ subjective feelings of wellness.

Ethical appreciation of these domains fosters a patient-centered approach. Simple neutrality is not viable in that patients’ belief systems may be implicitly scrutinized, promoting dissonance in the therapeutic relationship and could incur nocebo effects (4). Spiritual beliefs and practices are consistent with bio-psychosocial factors constructing patients’ worlds that are influential in health (5). Direct involvement with patients’ spirituality may be beyond the scope of clinical practice. Yet, the fiduciary relationship between physician and patient instigates clinicians’ pro-active role in evaluating patients’ spirituality, recognizing its importance and providing resources to accommodate patients’ needs.
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http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/329/7458/123
 
Roman said:
I don't think the government should be involved in people's private affairs. If you want to give money to God, you should be allowed to. It's your money, right?
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You're absolutely right. But think of it this way. If Hinn had been the head of a corporation and had taken money from the investors in a similar fashion, would he still be flying all over the world, and continuing to do so with nothing to show for it but his own wealth and the investors get nothing in return? Not the heals they were promised.. nothing..

Sam said:
Here it is, Finland not US. Probably listened to one too many Dawkins theories, eh?
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What does that have to do with this topic?

Has Dawkins ever told people to give him money so that they can be cured of their illnesses? Has he ever stood on a stage and told people that the amount they gave was somehow reflective of just how much they believed and the more they give, the more miracles were likely to follow?

What about atheists who spread a nocebo effect among people?

Should they be held responsible for any resultant suicides or deaths?
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Huh?

You are equating atheists telling people they don't believe in God as being somehow similar to a prancing prat in a white suit, telling people to give him money because God says so and the more they give, the more miracles they are likely to be blessed with.. not to mention telling sick people they are cured and lead them to believe they no longer need medical treatment, resulting in their dying.. You think the two are comparable?:bugeye:

Ermm ok..

Moving right along..

John99 said:
I wouldnt exactly call it fleecing, he is making his money off of sheer volume. But like i said, is it really that big of a deal?
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What do you think John? In the grand scheme of things, it really is no big deal. After all, there is a sucker born every minute, isn't there? But I would like you to think of the sheer amount of influence someone like Hinn happens to have over people...

Telling people:

"If God tells you to give $5000, obey him," Hinn said.

"If God speaks and says give $10,000, obey him. Do not argue with God."
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...4-3102,00.html
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Nooo.. not fleecing at all..:rolleyes:
 
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