Miracles for money..

[Bells]

Benny Hinn. Most of us have heard of him and most of us have probably scrambled for the remote to change channel when his face has graced our unfortunate TV's. The great man himself is apparently on a tour at present, traveling in style in his $35 million private jet. Now mind you, his money does not mean a thing to me. He's rich? Great! But it is the manner in which this individual made his money which is downright immoral, especially when one considers his line of work.

Vulnerable people, many sick and infirm, flock to his "miracle crusades", in the hope of a miracle.. of anything really. Sadly, the reality of the 'miracle' is the ability the man has of extracting money from those vulnerable people who are so desperate as to buy into this charlatan. Many of these poor people happened to have been in the crowd at his "miracle crusade" last night, and the result? Well, lets just say no one was cured, but their bank accounts were definitely cured of their cash. So how would such a miracle giver start his 'miracle crusade'? That's right folks, he talked cash first..

But business comes before miracles when Pastor Hinn is in the building, it seems.

After an hour of songs, Hinn preached a recurring topic. Gold and silver. Silver and gold. The flamboyant non-denominational preacher, who receives an estimated $A110 million in donations per annum, used scripture to encourage crowd members to give. "Do you know how much gold the children of Israel gave Moses to build a tabernacle?" he asked. "Fifty thousand ounces of gold, 150,000 ounces of silver. In today's prices that's over 40 million US dollars in gold alone. I don't know how much that is in Australian dollars, but that's a lot of gold . . . and God blessed them."

Hinn, who owns a $36 million private jet, continued in the same "rich" vein. For 90 minutes he talked dollars. The term "wealth transfer" was uttered 20 times in 10 minutes. "Gold" and "silver" was said 35 times in six minutes alone.

The man believed to be the world's richest evangelist, who has repeatedly refused to join the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, continued his focus on the almighty dollar.

"If God tells you to give $5000, obey him," Hinn said.

"If God speaks and says give $10,000, obey him. Do not argue with God."
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23224684-3102,00.html

Hmmmmm.. I don't remember God demanding money from believers, being taught in Sunday school.. That must be new.

Anywho..

After speaking of God asking for money for 90 minutes, he then sent around his burly security guards to give out donation envelopes to the poor masses.

This is of course, after he abused a woman whose baby started to cry.

Yet, as he talked of God's love, the pastor couldn't hide his quick temper. The 56-year-old became angry when a crying child interrupted the sermon.

"People came to hear God's word, not children crying," he snapped, singling out a distressed mother. "Do something with that baby."

Seconds later Hinn's security guards, former gridiron players in pinstripe suits and dark glasses, distributed donation envelopes to the crowd.

Hmmmm..

I wonder if God smacked Mary upside the head whenever Jesus cried...

Now imagine the crowd. Being preached about money and how God apparently needs money, for 90 minutes, then seeing him single out a poor woman with a crying child and abusing her and then seeing big burly security guards come filing down the aisles handing out donation envelopes. You'd be scared not to give, wouldn't you? After all, God has said he needs money and one should never argue with God.. after all.. Papa needs to be able to meet the rising cost of fuel for that jet. You'd either be scared of spending eternity in hell or being beaten up by his private security guards.

And after all of this. When the money had flowed in from the hapless crowd.. well then the miracles started to happen. Although not by Mr Hinn, oh no, can't get that shiny white suit dirty. He had a few locals volunteer to touch the masses, while he channeled God. "God has spoken! God has HEALED that woman over there on the right in the red top.. yes.. YOU..no.. not you.. the other right.."..

Then came the healing – a surprisingly hands-off affair administered by Hinn's Australian volunteers.

People were stripped of canes and Zimmer frames, those in wheelchairs helped to their feet. One man, in his late 50s, cried with what looked more like pain than relief.

For Ms Smith, the Friday night event was a disappointing affair.

"There was too much talk about money, about the more you gave the more God loved you," she said.

"I feel drained, let down and let's face it, I still can't walk."

Can't walk indeed. I wonder how much money she happened to have 'donated' for the pleasure.

 

[Leo Volont]

Why isn't it all just show business?

Do we begrudge Sir Paul McCartney's fortune? Or Madonna's? Or that awful skank's Britney Speer's?

Well, yes. I think all such Fortune's need to be assessed at a very high level of taxation.

Oh, but that does bring up a point, at least in America, where if one can claim to be a Religious Organization, then one is exempt from taxation. This seems quite backwards for a Government that Constitutionally is forbidden to SPONSOR Religion. If they are not SPONSORING Religion, then they need to treat Religion fairly, as they would treat any other Corporate Enterprise, and Tax those gross receipts.

 

[Bells]

Why isn't it all just show business?

Do we begrudge Sir Paul McCartney's fortune? Or Madonna's? Or that awful skank's Britney Speer's?

Well, yes. I think all such Fortune's need to be assessed at a very high level of taxation.

Oh, but that does bring up a point, at least in America, where if one can claim to be a Religious Organization, then one is exempt from taxation. This seems quite backwards for a Government that Constitutionally is forbidden to SPONSOR Religion. If they are not SPONSORING Religion, then they need to treat Religion fairly, as they would treat any other Corporate Enterprise, and Tax those gross receipts.

It is obscene. I don't care that he's rich. If he had made that money fairly, then great for him. But to prey on the weak and vulnerable in such a fashion is despicable. Telling people that it is God that asks for the money is obscene. And ordering them to give over however much "God" tells to give? Lets face it. The man has found a cash cow in the vulnerable people who should know better but are so desperate that they will believe anything they are told.

I wonder how much God is charging for a miracle nowdays?

I don't just think he should be taxed. He's treating it like a business and virtually forcing people to give their much needed money to him. He should be thrown in jail for preying on the most vulnerable in our society. Only he gets away with it because he hides behind the blanket of 'religion'.

 

[Asguard]

i agree with you bells. However i wonder if we SHOULD be shutting down all faith healers because the placibo effect CAN work where moden med fails. So we do need to be carfull that we dont kill people in an effort to protect them

 

[Bells]

i agree with you bells. However i wonder if we SHOULD be shutting down all faith healers because the placibo effect CAN work where moden med fails. So we do need to be carfull that we dont kill people in an effort to protect them

You can't really shut them down. They hide behind the veil of religion. Therefore they are tax exempt and thus, there is no accountability. He can demand as much as he wants and does, quite successfully in fact. People are either just too scared of going to hell or too desperate to dare refuse. I don't just think he should be shut down. I think he should be thrown in jail for exploiting the needy.

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As much as it embarrasses me to admit, I have a cousin who was a great believer in Benny Hinn. She even went to that particular 'miracle crusade'. And sadder still, she had $8,000 in her bag to 'donate' to 'God'. Thankfully, she returned with every cent in her bag, thoroughly disgusted in the 90 minute 'you must give money when God asks you to' and when he abused the poor woman with the crying baby. I must admit, I am thankful to Benny Hinn. He might just be the one kick my cousin needed to open her eyes and we hope she will start to make the recovery she so desperately needs to get out of the religious nut rut she has fallen into.

But seriously now, how much does God charge for a miracle? Does God demand payment up front or does the miracle have to occur before the fees are payed?

I just find it astounding that people (like my cousin) could be so easily led astray, that they could get sucked in so deeply to the point where they are giving him money they cannot afford to give. Why? Because "if God speaks and says give $10,000, obey him. Do not argue with God."... Notice how it is never 'God says to give $1'. Oh no. Never that low. And notice it is never 'God says to give $100 to the charity of your choice'. Again no. Instead, he supplies his own security guards to wander around the crowd (dressed in dark suits and sunglasses:bugeye to distribute donation envelopes. How intimidating would that be?

Funny thing is, had he been an accountant or an insurance salesman for example, he would most probably be in jail by now.

 

[Bells]

Oh dear lord..

Benny Hinn is also a proponent of the Prosperity Gospel or the Word of Faith movement. As is implied by the name "Prosperity Gospel" the supporters believe that faith works as a mighty power or force. That it is through their faith that they can obtain anything they want – such as health, wealth, or any form of personal success. However, this force is only released through their faith.
Link

Fair enough one could say if one were a believer. If you really believe in something or want something hard enough, it just might come to you. However here is the little kicker. The only way to express that faith is to give him the money.

According to Pastor Benny if a person expresses their faith by sowing a sufficient monetary seed into his ministry - that person will be granted divine physical healing.

Nice.

But lets just imagine the man is a giving man. After all, the more you give, the more you get back, right?

Here is a very small sampling of financial records from the summer of 2003. At that time Hinn had crusades in St. Petersburg, Russia and Stockholm, Sweden then departed for a four day whirlwind trip to Italy and London, billing it as a simple layover.

* A hotel bill for room service and chauffeur services at the Lanesborough Hotel in London (see bill .pdf)
* Tips given to staff at Lanesborough Hotel in London after a one day stay (see chit .pdf)
* Tips given to the staff at the Savoia Hotel in Milan, Italy (see chit .pdf)
* $5000US dollars cash given to Pastor Benny Hinn (PBH), no details for the reason (see chit .pdf)
* A gift from Benny Hinn to a 'homeless woman with a baby' of $20US (see chit .pdf)

From the same link posted above in this post.

Hmmmmm...

 

[Lori_7]

People are f'ing idiots. I don't feel a bit sorry for people who support this kind of activity and this man. I do know though, that God is very aware of what people's intentions are and while Benny Hinn will get his, those who are sincere in giving will get theirs too. But people who think that you can buy favors from God will get nothing but an empty wallet.

 

[Orleander]

who is that lady that is about the same as him. She says how to get rich.
Anyways, she got sued by a person who tithed, prayed, etc and got poorer. Finally that person sued her. If I could remember her name I'd post a link.

If you don't heal, could you sue Hinn?

 

[cosmictraveler]

If you don't heal, could you sue Hinn?

No, because the Lord works in "mysterious " ways, which means Hinn cannot do any healing only the Lord can according to Hinn.

 

[Orleander]

but if you send him money and you're still not healed...can you get your money back?

 

[cosmictraveler]

but if you send him money and you're still not healed...can you get your money back?

Nope, but you can feel better that you bought Hinn a new car or something with your "donation".

 

[Bells]

but if you send him money and you're still not healed...can you get your money back?

You can't.

He preaches in a manner that leads people to believe that the more they give to him, the better they will be. So imagine the poor people who are unable to give thousands of dollars or the figure that God apparently tells them to give. Imagine one person who has cancer and can only afford to give $100 a month. They ultimately die or get worse and they can easily be led to believe that the reason they were not cured or receive a miracle is simply because they did not 'believe' and thus, give enough. For example:

Hinn notes that only rarely does he lay hands on someone for healing, but he made an exception for one child whose case was being filmed for the HBO documentary. The boy was blind and dying from a brain tumor. "The Lord's going to touch you," Hinn promised. The child's parents believed and, although not wealthy, pledged $100 per month to the Benny Hinn Ministries. Subsequently, however, the child died.

Critics, like the Rev. Joseph C. Hough, President of New York's Union Theological Seminary, say of the desperately hopeful: "It breaks your heart to know that they are being deceived, because they genuinely are hoping and believing. And they'll leave there thinking that if they didn't get a miracle it's because they didn't believe."
http://csicop.org/si/2002-05/i-files.html

If you were those parents, there would be that degree of self doubt and self loathing that your son died because he did not believe he could be cured or that you did not believe that he could be cured. Plus you only gave $100 a month to buy a miracle for your son. I would hate to imagine what they would have thought when their son died.

And then of course there are the inherent dangers to people who believe themselves cured, stop all their medications and medical treatments. Here is but one example of the type of damage that faith healers like Hinn can actually do to people.

As these cases demonstrate, there is a danger that people who believe themselves cured will forsake medical assistance that could bring them relief or even save their lives. Dr. Nolen (1974, 97-99) relates the tragic case of Mrs. Helen Sullivan who suffered from cancer that had spread to her vertebrae. Kathryn Kuhlman had her get out of her wheelchair, remove her back brace, and run across the stage repeatedly. The crowd applauded what they thought was a miracle, but the antics cost Mrs. Sullivan a collapsed vertebra. Four months after her "cure," she died.

Nolen (1974, 101) stated he did not think Miss Kuhlman a deliberate charlatan. She was, he said, ignorant of diseases and the effects of suggestion. But he suspected she had "trained herself to deny, emotionally and intellectually, anything that might threaten the validity of her ministry." The same may apply to Benny Hinn. One expert in mental states, Michael A. Persinger, a neuroscientist, suggests people like Hinn have fantasy-prone personalities (Thomas 2001). Indeed, the backgrounds of both Kuhlman and Hinn reveal many traits associated with fantasy-proneness, but it must be noted that being fantasy prone does not preclude also being deceptive and manipulative.

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People are f'ing idiots. I don't feel a bit sorry for people who support this kind of activity and this man.

You should. These people are desperate and they will grasp at anything and everything. What is sorry is that these people are convinced that if they believe, they will be cured. If they 'give', they will be cured. As I said, these people then ultimately get worse and then begin to believe they did not give enough or believe enough. I feel sorry for the despair that people like Hinn cause these people. I feel sorry for the people who become deceived and I am angry by fact that he is freely allowed to manipulate them in such a fashion without fear of prosecution, because he hides behind the fact that he is running a religion.

Hinn is nothing more than a charlatan, a thief and a fraud. He preys on the most vulnerable and he profits from their pain and desperation.

 

[Kadark]

I see these idiots on TV every Sunday, at about 4:00 AM on the verge of sleeping. I'm most familiar with the Satan look-alike, Peter Popoff, who is running a lucrative business after disappearing from the scene when James Randi exposed his scam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y

I think it's inexcusable for these lowlifes to use religion as a business, but I feel just as much rage toward the individuals who sustain these men's earnings. How can somebody believe that buying "Miracle Spring Water" will cure your ills?

 

[Bells]

I find it disgusting how these individuals can use religion to exploit and prey on people who are so desperate that they would buy into it.

 

[Myles]

but if you send him money and you're still not healed...can you get your money back?

What a silly question. It's not for us to question god's will.

 

[Asguard]

Bells i agree with you (see the PM i sent you) and i am so sorry about your cousin. Unfortunatly bottom dwellers are had for our laws to touch. Same thing goes for surposedly "Complementry Alternitve Theropies". I have herd stories of people being charged $100,000 plus for cures to cancer that are just water and it sickens me. The terminally ill, the pysically handicaped and the mentally ill are treated as cash cows to be exploited. By the same token i dont know what the answer is, do you ban things like the "last rights" that give comfert for the sick and dying in an effort to get rid of these people? Do things that might actually HELP like lorenso's oil, chiness med and acupuncher get banned in an effort to weed out the snake oil salesmen?

I am very warry of geting the parliment and the law invoved incases like this because nither of them deal very well with gray. Look at what happened when they banned FGM, they "acidently" banned genital percisings and tatooes which (although the libs though were wrong) was a womans informed choice

The same when the victorian goverment tried to ban trading on Good Friday, they acidently (this one WAS an acident) wrote the laws in such a way that petrol stations were banned from opening. We had the premure of the state on the TV begging petrol stations to break the law on the promise they would fix it restrospecitvly the next day parliment sat.

So although i agree with you 100% and have watched people turn away from mainstreem med that would have helped them because they were duped i dont know what we can do

Look at the Jo hoves who wont accept blood to save there own lives or the lives of there children (at least the law put a stop to THAT one) or scientology with there hatred of psycitray. Hell there is a car that drives around near my place with a trailer saying that "psycitry is drugging our kids" and everytime i see it i want to paint over it "scientology is run by a fake who was only out to make money" but i cant

I have nothing but empathy for your fight though

 

[Myles]

I don't wish to upset any Americans but on this side of the pond we cannot believe what you allow these charlatans to get away with.

I remember Oral Roberts who retreated into his prayer t6ower and vowed not to come out until six million dollars had been donated to his ministry; he got it.

Has anyone seen a documentray on baby preachers who are being exploited by their parents ?

It's this sort of stuff that makes us say; " that could only happen i America "

 

[Myles]

I find it disgusting how these individuals can use religion to exploit and prey on people who are so desperate that they would buy into it.

What the hell has religion got to do with it ? As you say, it's about preying, not praying

 

[Bells]

What the hell has religion got to do with it ? As you say, it's about preying, not praying

Ah, but religion has everything to do with it. People like Hinn hide behind it and therefore are not held accountable for their practices. As I said before, had Hinn been an accountant and encouraging people to give him money to get more money back from the IRS for example, he'd be in jail. But once the notion of 'religion' and 'God' enters the fray, well, he is not accountable to anyone really. He enjoys a tax exempt status, he does not have to join the evangelical accountability body because it is voluntary. He can do as he damn well chooses with the money people donate to him to prove just how much they believe. And he does. The man leads a lifestyle that is lavish to the point of being nearly obscene when one considers how he has come by his wealth.

 

[Lori_7]

You should. These people are desperate and they will grasp at anything and everything. What is sorry is that these people are convinced that if they believe, they will be cured. If they 'give', they will be cured. As I said, these people then ultimately get worse and then begin to believe they did not give enough or believe enough. I feel sorry for the despair that people like Hinn cause these people. I feel sorry for the people who become deceived and I am angry by fact that he is freely allowed to manipulate them in such a fashion without fear of prosecution, because he hides behind the fact that he is running a religion.

Hinn is nothing more than a charlatan, a thief and a fraud. He preys on the most vulnerable and he profits from their pain and desperation.

Do you really think it's a good idea to tell people what they should and should not think or feel? I don't. I'm not telling you what to think. And unfortunate as it is, stupid people make stupid investment decisions. I see poor people all the time buying drugs and lottery tickets with the last few dollars they've got to try to escape their problems until they get some miracle "cure". And there is no miracle cure! The term "miracle" is very relative too. I mean, you could say that everything is a miracle. Life is a miracle. And at the same time you could then say that nothing is a miracle. The point is that God's power is not to be purchased. It's not for sale. So the fact that these people aren't able to buy it is a good thing. What if they could? What would that mean? Think about it. Listen, I've had my dealings with the Lord so I know better. Maybe that's the whole point...before investing, you should know who you're dealing with. Benny Hinn doesn't guarantee these people something. How could he?