Mandatory Castration and penile resection for convicted peodophiles

[Repo Man]

First, you need to make a distinction between pedophiles (adults with a strong or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children) and child molesters. You can be a pedophile without being a child molester, you can be a child molester without being a pedophile.

Who knows how many adults there are who are exclusively sexually attracted to prepubescent children who never act on their attraction? These people know their attractions are socially unacceptable, so I'm sure they would keep them hidden from even their closest friends.

Calling for a death penalty for child molesting would give child molesters a perverse incentive to murder their victims. If the penalty is the same for murder and molesting, why not also murder, and lower your chances of getting caught? So, you can choose between social vengeance, and more dead children, or sane policies designed to help those inclined resist their urges, sentencing and treatment based on the best knowledge we have available to prevent them from reoffending, and other sane policies designed to prevent these crimes.

 

[TruthSeeker]

In another thread a discussion has been ongoing about the child sex industry and peodophilia in general.
It seems apparant that serious male offenders remain upon release from prison a constant threat to the safety of the child as rehabilitation seems in effective.

Would it not be simpler, more humane and certainy cheaper on society to just simply remove the organs necessary to perform these terrible acts. Surgery for the castration or testicles, and penile resection would certainly dampen the extreme entuisiasm a peodophile may have if not elliminate it entirely.

It seems strange to me that this is not already common practice around the world, and it appears that the perpetrators genitillia is considered more precious than that of the childrens lives he is determined to destroy.

How do we deal with the ethics and morality associated with this issue?

Care to discuss?

If it is evident the person is a pedophile, then yes, that could probably be a good idea. The only problem with it is whether they would turn violent or not because of that. I'm not sure...

 

[original]

Judging from earlier discussion within this thread, I believe that the removal of the testes (the primary producer of testosterone in human males) would decrease the energy and arousal of the post-operative person. Similar consequences are noted in the removal of the testes in animals, such as dogs... many people who choose to have their dogs operated on in such a fashion would probably agree that their dog is more docile after the operation.

 

[Repo Man]

Judging from earlier discussion within this thread, I believe that the removal of the testes (the primary producer of testosterone in human males) would decrease the energy and arousal of the post-operative person. Similar consequences are noted in the removal of the testes in animals, such as dogs... many people who choose to have their dogs operated on in such a fashion would probably agree that their dog is more docile after the operation.

They could easily replace it with synthetic testosterone.

 

[original]

Well they could also easily offer oral synthetics that repress testosterone production. In fact they do at this time for this specific situation. I ask again, how will the removal of a penis prevent further sexual abuses of children?

 

[lucifers angel]

lucifer angel: will someone please answer my question, what if the person is wrongly convicted, are they just simply going to glue his penis back on and say "oh sorry we made a mistake" mistakes do happen and people get wrongly accused by horrible kids

original: lucifer angel, what about the guy? That would be up to him. Psychotic killing spree, legal recourse, strap-on dildo... you really can't be sure what the guy would do. As for being compensated for his loss, well, that depends on how much he values his penis and the ability to reproduce.

lucifer angel: but he has still had his penis removed!! he still hasnot got a penis to have sex with, if he was innocent then they have no right at all to do that to anyone. i dont know the proper punishment but i realy do think that if we keep him alive then perhaps we can learn from him and see why they do what they do

original: The most important aspect of the justice system is to ensure accurate convictions. When accusing someone of sexually abusing children, there must be some evidence to support such claims. If no evidence exists, there is reasonable doubt to charge the accused as guilty. Therefore, those guilty of such crimes should be proven to have engaged in those acts. If he was innocent, you say that they have no right at all to remove his penis. So if he is guilty, his right to having a penis is revoked?

you cant be more wrong, children accuse men and women every day of sexual abuse and without evidence the police will jump on the people straight away, i have an uncle who was wrongly accused and he was in jail, he lost his job, wife, house, and i had to be a character witness for him, i had to say somthing like "i leave my children with him and they are safe and i feal relaxed that they are with him" the girl who accused him was his grand daughter, and rge case was dissmissed after he had spent 6mths in prison, and the girl who lied well she wasnt punished and she will do it again because she got attention, the police arested him without evidence

 

[original]

Well then would you agree with giving your wrongfully convicted uncle The Chop?

Anyway, I've been looking through a detailed study of sexual activities in humans and animals. Unfortunately, it does not support the conclusion that testosterone repression will reduce sexual violence. It is a lengthy PowerPoint report that I will attempt to summarize for the purposes of this discussion, but it can be also be found here in it's entirety:

PowerPoint: Assessment and Treatment of People Who Have Been Convicted of Sex Offenses by Gregory DeClue, Ph. D., ABPP

Here are the main points:

Chapter 4: Biological Factors in the Development of Sexual Deviance and Aggression in Males

Ray Blanchard
James M. Cantor
Lori K. Robichaud​

"summarizes the available evidence for biological influences on paraphilias and other factors affecting men's risk of sexual offending"
"Our goals were to present the few conclusions about pathogenic biological factors that do appear to be justified by the available data and to highlight the various theoretical and empirical questions that remain to be answered."
...
Testosterone and sexual aggression? Studies show either nonsignificant results or findings that groups with more sexual violence have higher elvels of testosterone.
Testosterone and Pedophilia?
Studies show either nonsignificant results or findings that groups of pedophiles have lower levels of testosterone when compared with controls or nonviolent nonsexual offenders.
...
The available data suggest that anomalous neurodevelopment, whether of genetic or environmental origin, does increase a male's risk of problematic sexual behavior, especially pedophilia.

Sorry, I can't continue with this study at the moment. I will return later. I have read up to #328.

 

[peta9]

^hehehe..are you sure she lied? Well, convicting someone of a crime without evidence is wrong. But what's equally disgusting is your claim that you were abused yet you are panting all over this thread to defend and worry over the possible innocence of the accused. Still the fact is, most people including children who accuse others of rape or molestation are telling the truth. I know of a case where an individual picked out one child to molest but left the others alone. Perpetrators are some of the most manipulative people and know the laws very well and thier chances of getting caught and act accordingly. Also, if it was inappropriate touching or fondling there is almost no way to prove it. And molestors know this, it becomes a he said, she said. It's hard to believe a child would accuse thier grandfather or anyone of molestation just to get attention. I'm not ruling it out but that is out of the ordinary no matter what you believe.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well then would you agree with giving your wrongfully convicted uncle The Chop?

Anyway, I've been looking through a detailed study of sexual activities in humans and animals. Unfortunately, it does not support the conclusion that testosterone repression will reduce sexual violence. It is a lengthy PowerPoint report that I will attempt to summarize for the purposes of this discussion, but it can be also be found here in it's entirety:

PowerPoint: Assessment and Treatment of People Who Have Been Convicted of Sex Offenses by Gregory DeClue, Ph. D., ABPP

Here are the main points:



Sorry, I can't continue with this study at the moment. I will return later. I have read up to #328.

Bummer.

Interesting that they have low levels of testosterone.

 

[original]

Originally posted by S.A.M.
Bummer.

Interesting that they have low levels of testosterone.

Yeah, that is quite unexpected. I was reading through that whole study in the hopes that it supported the repression of such hormones. Oh well. I shall return after removing some rocks from the land where I live. Perhaps I will cross-reference these findings with other related studies.

P.S. I wonder how the removal of the testes would affect the recidivism of such deviant behavior...?

 

[original]

I shall continue with excerpts from the study I cited in post # 67:

The effectiveness of treatment for sexual offenders: A comprehensive meta-analysis by Friedrich Lösel and Martin Schmucker, University of Erlangen - Nuremberg, Germany

Abstract.
The article reports a meta-analysis on controlled outcome evaluations of sexual offender treatment. From 2,039 documents published in five languages, 69 studies containing 80 independent comparisons between treated and untreated offenders fulfilled stepwise eligibility criteria (total N = 22,181). ...

Despite a wide range of positive and negative effect sizes, the majority confirmed the benefits of treatment. Treated offenders showed 6 percentage points or 37% less sexual recidivism than controls.

Effects for violent and general recidivism were in a similar range. Organic treatments (surgical castration and hormonal medication) showed larger effects than psychosocial interventions.

However, this difference was partially confounded with methodological and offender variables. Among psychological programs, cognitive-behavioral approaches revealed the most robust effect.

Nonbehavioral treatments did not demonstrate a significant impact. There was no outcome difference between randomized and other designs, however, group equivalence was associated with slightly larger effects.

The average effect of physical treatment is much larger than that of psychosocial programs. The main source for this difference is a very strong effect of surgical castration, although hormonal medication also shows a relatively good outcome.

Sex offenders receiving surgical castration are a highly selected and motivated group. They apply for this very intensive intervention voluntarily.

Most sex offenders do not have an abnormally high level of male sex hormones (Hucker and Bain 1990; Fedoroff and Moran 1997). As with surgical castration, we must take this into account when considering the relatively strong effect of hormonal medication.

Treatment with medroxy-progesteronacetate (in the US; e.g., Provera) or cyproteronacetate (in Europe; e.g., Androcur) does not seem to work by normalizing extreme testosterone levels, but by strongly reducing more or less normal levels of sexual arousal (Rösler and Witztum 2000).

In addition, there are serious negative side effects that frequently lead to noncompliance and dropout (e.g., Langevin 1979). The termination of medication may rapidly increase the risk of recidivism (Meyer et al., 1992). ...

If you are having problems downloading the files I provided, you have a few options:

1. Right-click the link and select "Copy link location" and then paste this into your web browser address bar. This will probably not work for Mac users, as the file is a Microsoft PowerPoint presentation.
2. Greg DeClue has a personal website with this study and several other related publications available to the public here: http://gregdeclue.myakkatech.com/Reprints of Publications.html

 

[Quantum Quack]

Original,
fantastic research ...well done!!!!

I ask though that even in a perfect or ideal justice system would the mandatory surgery be ethically and morally justified.?

Even if we asume that surgery was effective. [ say we discover in the future that the removal of certain aspects of Gland "x" reduces attraction to prepubescents.]

Is it ethically appropriate to force a person to undergo a surgical procedure?

maybe broaden the enquiry to include any forced surgical procedure.

 

[Quantum Quack]

for example:
In Australia it is often the case that a judge or court will demand that a psychiatriclaly ill person with a history of medication rejection and avoidance be placed on a scheme that requires mandatory injections of anyti psychotic medications [ normally every two weeks]

Now the judge offers a choice to the patient. Either have the medication or go to jail. This is not the same as saying outright that the person have the medication with no alternative such as jail.

To demand medicating with out alternative of prison is a forced intervention.
Ethically is it appropriate to force and intervention without alternative.

I tend to think not. An alternative must be provided and in the case of surgical intervention I would suggest that most "guilty" persons would go to prison for life rather than have their genitile resected.

 

[madanthonywayne]

I would suggest that most "guilty" persons would go to prison for life rather than have their genitile resected.

You may be right, but I'll bet some people would go for it. I can't believe that at least some pedophiles don't hate themselves for what they do and might just see this as a way of removing a "burden".

 

[TruthSeeker]

Judging from earlier discussion within this thread, I believe that the removal of the testes (the primary producer of testosterone in human males) would decrease the energy and arousal of the post-operative person. Similar consequences are noted in the removal of the testes in animals, such as dogs... many people who choose to have their dogs operated on in such a fashion would probably agree that their dog is more docile after the operation.

Yes, which is why I think they should remove. But that's not the ONLY source of "violence". Take "adrenaline", for instance,

 

[TruthSeeker]

Testosterone and Pedophilia?
Studies show either nonsignificant results or findings that groups of pedophiles have lower levels of testosterone when compared with controls or nonviolent nonsexual offenders.

Again, think adrenaline.

Why would you have sex in a bush at noon, in a park? Or have sex with a co-worker on the table of your office? Or "cheat" on you partner in your own bedroom, right before your partner comes back home?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The average effect of physical treatment is much larger than that of psychosocial programs. The main source for this difference is a very strong effect of surgical castration, although hormonal medication also shows a relatively good outcome.

Sex offenders receiving surgical castration are a highly selected and motivated group. They apply for this very intensive intervention voluntarily.

If they are doing it volunaterily, chances are they want to change and are more likely to change.

 

[lucifers angel]

^hehehe..are you sure she lied? Well, convicting someone of a crime without evidence is wrong. But what's equally disgusting is your claim that you were abused yet you are panting all over this thread to defend and worry over the possible innocence of the accused. Still the fact is, most people including children who accuse others of rape or molestation are telling the truth. I know of a case where an individual picked out one child to molest but left the others alone. Perpetrators are some of the most manipulative people and know the laws very well and thier chances of getting caught and act accordingly. Also, if it was inappropriate touching or fondling there is almost no way to prove it. And molestors know this, it becomes a he said, she said. It's hard to believe a child would accuse thier grandfather or anyone of molestation just to get attention. I'm not ruling it out but that is out of the ordinary no matter what you believe.

yes i am 100% sure she lied, and not so out of the ordinary i'm affraid!! she is a bitch and she admitted she lied.

 

[peta9]

yes i am 100% sure she lied, and not so out of the ordinary i'm affraid!! she is a bitch and she admitted she lied.

Well, she may have lied but there are plenty more that haven't and others don't believe them.

 

[Hapsburg]

Would it not be simpler, more humane and certainy cheaper on society to just simply remove the organs necessary to perform these terrible acts.

Now, I wouldn't go that far. Jeez.

Just do an vasectomy and inject them with chemicals that helps to stem the generation of testosterone, the male sex hormone.