Magen David Ambulance Dispatch: “Is it an Arab or a Jew?”

[S.A.M.]

There is a Red Lion and a Red Crystal. But no, not a Red Lotus. The Chinese do have a Red Swastika, but the ICRC considers it a sectarian body as it represents Buddhism, so it was rejected.


[edit] Other proposed symbols

Various other countries have also lobbied for alternative symbols, which have been rejected because of concerns of territorialism.[7][8]

* Mehrab-e-Ahmar (Afghanistan) - Archway design submitted in 1935, but rejected.
* Red Lamb (Republic of the Congo (Léopoldville)) - Used by one of several rival societies in 1963 to 1964.
* Red Wheel (India) - Hindu swastika design proposed after the Indian independence movement, but abandoned in favor of the Red Cross.
* Hakuai Sha (Japan), based on the Japanese flag - Founded in 1877, but adopted the Red Cross in 1887.
* Red Cedar (Lebanon) - Suggested after the Lebanese Civil War, but abandoned in favor of the Red Cross.
* Red Rhinoceros (Sudan) - Proposed to unite local branches of the Red Crescent Society of Egypt and the British Red Cross, but abandoned in favor of the Red Crescent.
* Red Palm (Syria) - Proposed after World War II, but rejected in favor of the Red Crescent.
* Sapa Unalom Daeng (Thailand) - Founded in 1893, but adopted the Red Cross in 1906.
* Red Star (Zimbabwe)

 

[Bells]

Can you think of any other reason why two ambulances were sent for one child?

They sent 3 when my son had a convulsion when he was a baby.:shrug:

 

[mordea]

I'm sure you'll be happy to provide some evidence for that assumption.

Trippy doesn't need to provide any evidence though...

 

[S.A.M.]

They sent 3 when my son had a convulsion when he was a baby.:shrug:

Black, white and mixed race?

Which one did you use?

 

[Bells]

Black, white and mixed race?

Which one did you use?

The one that wasn't blocked in the driveway by the other ambulances that had pulled in behind the first one. Ie, the one that had the free access to the road.

 

[S.A.M.]

The one that wasn't blocked in the driveway by the other ambulances that had pulled in behind the first one. Ie, the one that had the free access to the road.

Color blind eh?

You know I find some attitudes of Israelis particularly revealing of their general bias:

In a recent survey, Israelis were asked which sector of the population they would most like to have as neighbors. The results gave veteran Israelis the top grade, followed by new immigrants from the US, immigrants from France, immigrants from the former Soviet Union and lastly immigrants from Ethiopia.

link

Gee whatever happened to the Arabs? Seeing as there are 5.4 million of them in Occupied Palestine and Israel? Yani, 50% of the population???? Guess they don't exist.

 

[Trippy]

Color blind eh?

You know I find some attitudes of Israelis particularly revealing of their general bias:



Gee whatever happened to the Arabs? Seeing as there are 5.4 million of them in Occupied Palestine and Israel? Yani, 50% of the population???? Guess they don't exist.

Yes, while we're talking about racism in Palestine, let's not forget the racial epithets directed at Condalezza Rice during visit(s) to the west bank.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2006/08/palestinian-racism.html
http://www.pmw.org.il/bulletins-260602.htm
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/paracism.htm

Not to mention the inherent racism in calling an entire peoples culture a myth (referring to Israelie history as palestinian or arabic).

Or how about the anti-jewish sentiment (allegedly) broadcast on PA TV?
http://www.pmw.org.il/Racism & antisemitism.htm#Anti3

Because everybody knows that Israelie Jews are racist, but palestinian muslims aren't.

Or is it just that you think that the racism of palestinian muslims is acceptable and justified?

 

[Trippy]

Meanwhile...
Here:
http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/dfa/head/event/2008/cross.html
And here:
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/57jqsr?opendocument

We have articles about the MDA and the PRCS co-operating more fully to acheive the best humanitarian aid for the victims possible.

And here, for example, we have the agreement (I think it is the first agreement between the PRCS and MDA):
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchiv...ng Between the Palestinian Red Crescent Socie

Note the first paragraph, it alludes to an answer, to your question, and it's an answer that has been suggested to you several times, by several people, but you have thus far ignored.

The Magen David Adom of Israel (MDA), the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), and the ICRC are deeply distressed about the hostile acts that continue to be perpetrated against medical vehicles, units and personnel. Each has issued separate appeals for respect of the wounded and those who care for them. Yet ambulances from both sides continue to e stoned or shot at, and their movements severely hampered or restricted, resulting in needless human suffering and loss of life.

So once again, we come back to the same point, that if the question is asked universally, and as a matter of course, then it appears to be for the saftey and the security of the attending medics.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah I've seen the hasbara booklet too.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8303274/The-Israel-Projects-2009-Global-Language-Dictionary

And I don't doubt that there are non-racists in Israel as well.

Overall though one has only to read a few eyewitness accounts to know the plight of the Palestinians.

Phil Weiss has a regular blog dedicated to it.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Gee whatever happened to the Arabs? Seeing as there are 5.4 million of them in Occupied Palestine and Israel? Yani, 50% of the population???? Guess they don't exist.

Context, young lady, CONTEXT! Without getting off into the morality of it (an issue on which you and I generally agree) it is a fact of life in Israel that Arabs and Jews ordinarily do not live together in the same neighborhoods. So if you ask an Israeli Jew who he would prefer as a neighbor, he is naturally only going to consider the people who realistically might show up renting the house next door. To suppose that they might be Arabs is almost as far out of context as supposing that they might be Navajos or Samoans.

This would be like asking an average working-class American of northwestern European ancestry in Chicago in 1890 about prospective neighbors. He would think about German, Irish, Scandinavian, Jewish, Slavic and (possibly) Italian people, but he would never imagine a person of African ancestry living next door regardless of his own personal attitudes about ethnicity.

Not to mention the inherent racism in calling an entire peoples culture a myth (referring to Israelie history as palestinian or arabic).

Considering that the Middle East is the region where the human race's first-known successful experiments with the technology of agriculture (cultivated hybrid figs ca. 9500BCE) ushered in the Neolithic Era, and the site where the earliest civilization was founded (Mesopotamian), it is arguably the place most exhaustively studied by archeologists and anthropologists. We have a remarkably rich history of Canaan going back to at least 4000BCE, long before the Arab and the Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish tribes even existed.

It's not clear when the Arabs as a distinct people first differentiated themselves from the other Semitic tribes in Jazirat al-Arab (the region between the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf), but it is likely that they are a young people, who first show up in the written record and linguistic inference around 1000BCE--much younger than the Canaanites and even the Hebrews. They certainly did not have a presence in Canaan (Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, and border regions of Syria, Jordan and Egypt) before the Common Era and only became major players in the region after the rise of Islam.

The ancient history of Canaan stars Assyrians, Akkadians, Phoenicians and others who prospered from the place's fortuitous location at the place where the Babylonian, Egyptian and Minoan civilizations met, but no Arabs. The ancestors of the modern Lebanese and Palestinians were Canaanites, not Arabs, and they are more closely related by DNA to the Jews than to the modern Arabs, except for the obvious effects of intermarriage over the centuries.

Or is it just that you think that the racism of palestinian muslims is acceptable and justified?

I would much prefer to see the blame for the Israel-Palestinian conflict spread around evenly and fairly. The leaders of both peoples should be removed and sent to sensitivity training camps. For our members to be spouting bile at either side is pointless, and despite any claim to historical validity going back half a century or more, we live in the present. Name-calling never solves problems and invariably makes them worse.

As I have noted before, I am mystified by the British escaping criticism for all this. It was they who "owned" Palestine after the demise of the Ottoman Empire, and it was they who decided it should be "given" to Jewish refugees because, after all nobody important was already living there.

 

[S.A.M.]

Fraggle

It doesn't matter who "gave" it to them now. None of the Jews moving to Palestine today and bricking in the Palestinians behind walls of steel or cutting off pasta and school books or dropping white phosphorus on civilians have anyone to blame but themselves.

Why do we need a "greater shoah" to take place before we do something about it?

 

[Trippy]

Considering that the Middle East is the region where the human race's first-known successful experiments with the technology of agriculture (cultivated hybrid figs ca. 9500BCE) ushered in the Neolithic Era, and the site where the earliest civilization was founded (Mesopotamian), it is arguably the place most exhaustively studied by archeologists and anthropologists. We have a remarkably rich history of Canaan going back to at least 4000BCE, long before the Arab and the Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish tribes even existed.

It's not clear when the Arabs as a distinct people first differentiated themselves from the other Semitic tribes in Jazirat al-Arab (the region between the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf), but it is likely that they are a young people, who first show up in the written record and linguistic inference around 1000BCE--much younger than the Canaanites and even the Hebrews. They certainly did not have a presence in Canaan (Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, and border regions of Syria, Jordan and Egypt) before the Common Era and only became major players in the region after the rise of Islam.

Agreed, and in part this is the point that I was alluding to.

The ancient history of Canaan stars Assyrians, Akkadians, Phoenicians and others who prospered from the place's fortuitous location at the place where the Babylonian, Egyptian and Minoan civilizations met, but no Arabs. The ancestors of the modern Lebanese and Palestinians were Canaanites, not Arabs, and they are more closely related by DNA to the Jews than to the modern Arabs, except for the obvious effects of intermarriage over the centuries.

Also agreed, also part of my point.

I would much prefer to see the blame for the Israel-Palestinian conflict spread around evenly and fairly. The leaders of both peoples should be removed and sent to sensitivity training camps. For our members to be spouting bile at either side is pointless, and despite any claim to historical validity going back half a century or more, we live in the present. Name-calling never solves problems and invariably makes them worse.

Also agreed, my point wasn't that Israelies aren't racist, or that one side is worse than the other, it was simply, that inspite of what was being portrayed so far (as my comment earlier appeared to have been taken out of context), that racism existed on both sides of the argument, and they were each as bad as the other (not to be mistaken for excusing one side as being provoked).

As I have noted before, I am mystified by the British escaping criticism for all this. It was they who "owned" Palestine after the demise of the Ottoman Empire, and it was they who decided it should be "given" to Jewish refugees because, after all nobody important was already living there.

Also agreed.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

It doesn't matter who "gave" it to them now. None of the Jews moving to Palestine today and bricking in the Palestinians behind walls of steel or cutting off pasta and school books or dropping white phosphorus on civilians have anyone to blame but themselves.

As I pointed out in your simplistic thread about the Maori, you have (or affect) an amazing naivete about the effect of one's culture and history on one's attitude and behavior: the "collective unconscious." You speak as though every one of us has completely detached, objective control over our feelings and our actions. We do not.

As I also noted, you should go back to college and take some useful courses before you continue to embarrass yourself. You know very little about your own species.

Why do Maoris, Native Australians and Native Americans continue to feel rootless and out of synch with time, centuries after the European occupation? Why do the Chinese continue to respect a national father-figure as though he were Confucius? Why do Gentiles continue to lambaste Jews for manipulating the world's economy, when an ever-growing portion of it is in the hands of the Chinese? Why do American Southerners continue to look down on Americans of African ancestry, even people of mixed ancestry who look African, even though one of them is now President? Why do Israelis and Palestinians hate each other, even though they were dumped into this mess by the Europeans and their thousand-year campaign of antisemitism, and during the lifetime of most of the people who are now fighting, that mess was continually exacerbated by the Russians and Americans in their Cold War, each taking a different side?

Why do you supernaturalists continue to behave as though gods and demons are real, five hundred years after the scientific method began to demonstrate the need for EVIDENCE in establishing the respectability of a hypothesis?

The answer: Their/our/your COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS.

Please log off of SciForums and start reading up on psychology. Then come back with a wisp of enlightenment.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is that how the Aryan supremacy and white supremacy problems were resolved? By reading books? Maybe you think reading books will stop the blockade of food and water to the Palestinians? Stop them dying at checkpoints at the whim of teenagers brainwashed into become serial killers?

What does your psychology textbook say about this?

Because you yourself seem unable to deal with the issue of Jewish ethnocentrism.

I have yet to see a single post from you on that tribal meme/

 

[quadraphonics]

Is that how the Aryan supremacy and white supremacy problems were resolved?

? Those problems were resolved?

 

[spidergoat]

If I was an ambulance driver in CA, I would like to know if I'm being sent into a gang fight in South Central or to Beverly Hills. It makes a difference.

 

[S.A.M.]

? Those problems were resolved?

You see anyone in shackles, being given a bowl of soup a day for these ideologies?

While we can never resolve racism, we can at least rescue the victims of such ideologies

 

[quadraphonics]

You see anyone in shackles, being given a bowl of soup for these ideologies?

Yes. Don't you?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes. Don't you?

Well then there is even more reason to be proactive if its still going on, isn't there?

Or is this

4. Everybody sucks?
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Is that how the Aryan supremacy and white supremacy problems were resolved? By reading books?

Some scholar you are, if you dismiss the value of reading books. I can't help wondering why you bother coming to a place of scholarship like SciForums, if your goal is to denigrate scholarship.

You continue to ignore the value of understanding history and the workings of the human mind and spirit, in solving present day problems.

Maybe you think reading books will stop the blockade of food and water to the Palestinians? Stop them dying at checkpoints at the whim of teenagers brainwashed into become serial killers?

I don't care if you learn about the collective unconscious by reading books, watching DVDs, going to lectures, or going back to school. But until you do, your posts on subjects concerning human science will continue to be shallow and clueless. You add no value to these discussions because you apparently have no more sophistication than the tribally-oriented Israelis and Palestinians who are throwing rocks and rockets at each other. If education is not a valuable tool in solving humanity's problems, then why do we bother with it?

Obviously a short-term solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict is impossible, if we outsiders plan to respect the concept of sovereignty, in addition to having figured out that meddling directly in somebody else's problems usually makes them worse. If we plan to help work out a long-term solution, then yes indeed, everyone should do a little reading. Except you, who apparently should do a LOT of reading. Your understanding of the dynamics of ethnic conflicts is minimal.

Because you yourself seem unable to deal with the issue of Jewish ethnocentrism. I have yet to see a single post from you on that tribal meme/

I have said many times that I throw all the Abrahamists into the same trash pile. I have only contempt for supernaturalists, whether they be Jewish, Christian or Muslim. The roots of Jewish ethnocentrism are religious: they alone have a Covenant with God and God singles them out for special punishment for having violated it for thousands of years. You can't leave the tribe because God can always find you, and you have to be suspicious of a Gentile who would want to join this tribe and subject all of his descendants to God's wrath.

In America the large minority of Jews who sympathize with the Palestinians are the secular ones, who eat pork and only go to temple for Passover and Yom Kippur, and who more-or-less freely intermarry with Gentiles. Whereas the ones who rise to the knee-jerk defense of Israel are the devout ones who keep kosher, don't light fires on the Sabbath, and don't allow their children to date Gentiles.

Abrahamic religion reinforces tribalism. The progress of civilization will continue to be hindered until it finally dies out--or until you guys succeed in killing each other off.