Life After Death but Without God

[PsychoticEpisode]

once again, it makes me wonder why you can half heartedly entertain a god that can orchestrate the karma of all living entities yet find the notion of a god that is in any way knowledgeable about the size and operation of the universe untenable

If you are going to impart knowledge of the soul then I need to know the source. Not ancient manuscripts, they mean nothing. How did you come across all this soul lore?

Granted, if there is to be a life after death, a soul or something similar might have to be. Talking about returning as animals on any number of planets isn't exactly referencing the traditional other realm where god runs free. So I guess in your opinion the soul only exists in the transitory state when it has to make up its mind as to where its going next or have its decision made for them by god or His assistants?

Each cell has a soul you say. 100 trillion cells in the human body equates to quite a few souls in existence. I gather the souls of multi-soulular:shrug: creatures get together to form one giant soul? Or when I die a 100 trillion souls get to choose the next life? Where is the human soul if each cell is a soul in itself?

The closest thing to life after death is the passing on of one's genetic material.

 

[lightgigantic]

If you are going to impart knowledge of the soul then I need to know the source. Not ancient manuscripts, they mean nothing. How did you come across all this soul lore?

why would you regard "ancient manuscripts" as meaningless?

Granted, if there is to be a life after death, a soul or something similar might have to be. Talking about returning as animals on any number of planets isn't exactly referencing the traditional other realm where god runs free.

the idea is that there are two distinct spheres of manifestation - the material (which involves issues of accepting/rejecting many material identities) and the spiritual (which involves being rightly situated in one's constitutional eternal position) ... of course the distinction is quite dramatic for the living entity however for god its not such a problem

So I guess in your opinion the soul only exists in the transitory state when it has to make up its mind as to where its going next or have its decision made for them by god or His assistants?

that's kind of the job description for the material world

Each cell has a soul you say. 100 trillion cells in the human body equates to quite a few souls in existence. I gather the souls of multi-soulular:shrug: creatures get together to form one giant soul?

no
just like one bus can be full of sixty people yet only afford one of them to be sitting in the driver's seat

Or when I die a 100 trillion souls get to choose the next life?

literally at each moment there are thousands of cells appearing and degenerating - and when you die you will simply afford the opportunity for a host of other living entities to appear in your body - basically the material world is jam packed for of souls - you can't indicate a single square inch where life does not exist.

Where is the human soul if each cell is a soul in itself?

it is indicated that the soul resides in the heart or life air generating region of the living entity although along with the supersoul or an expansion of god that accompanies every living entity in the capacity of a controller (to empower them with remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness and thus enable the pursuit of desires)

The closest thing to life after death is the passing on of one's genetic material.

that is only the material substance of life

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Lg ... How is a person's life eternal if one keeps dying forever? Eternal life or eternal death, what is it?

 

[lightgigantic]

Lg ... How is a person's life eternal if one keeps dying forever? Eternal life or eternal death, what is it?

the eternal self, under the duress of illusion comes to the material atmosphere to accept (and reject) various terms of bodily existence. Kind of like a person can change their living quarters from one to another - the material body (which is subject to birth and death) merely houses the eternal individual soul.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

the eternal self, under the duress of illusion comes to the material atmosphere to accept (and reject) various terms of bodily existence.

Now that you've informed me I guess there's nowhere to go. After I die here then there is no point in me choosing a material body any longer. With the knowledge you've given me I shall no longer be under duress and choose the options, there is no point, unless choosing another life form is the only way I can be rid of the duress of illusion that awaits me. Is having the knowledge of this duress and then refusing material body options going to vault me into some other state of being or doom me to wander aimlessly about in an illusion?

I'd be interested as to what the illusion is all about, wouldn't you? My duress should actually be alleviated knowing that it is an illusion. Instincts should kick in and my curiousity would be piqued, no doubt. Why would any soul want to continue living in this universe when they have the knowledge you've just imparted. Doesn't make sense to continue on in any material world as far as I can see.

Do you mean to tell me that the soul is going to be under duress despite this knowledge? IOW everything is momentarily forgotten while you choose your next life. Convenient. Just how much knowledge do souls entertain? You make it sound as if they are all equal. I could choose to be an amoeba in my next life, so willing. So souls all know about the illusion, No? Even if our souls are some kind of supersoul then why in the world would they opt to rejoin the material world? Is a new material world life form a soul's only choice? Material world must rank right up there in the soul travelogue.

Paradoxical senses tingling. This happens a lot.

 

[lightgigantic]

Psychotic episode

Now that you've informed me I guess there's nowhere to go. After I die here then there is no point in me choosing a material body any longer. With the knowledge you've given me I shall no longer be under duress and choose the options, there is no point, unless choosing another life form is the only way I can be rid of the duress of illusion that awaits me. Is having the knowledge of this duress and then refusing material body options going to vault me into some other state of being or doom me to wander aimlessly about in an illusion?

Hehe
Not so easy I’m afraid

BG 3.5 Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has acquired from the modes of material nature (ie illusion); therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment.

IOW the only way you can stop acting on the material platform is when you uncover your eternal identity and start acting on the spiritual platform . Action is a constant and its performed in relation to our identity ... as long as you ultimately think that you are some bodily designation [male/white/youg/old/ugly/beautiful/etc] you will have no choice but to adopt the relevant actions (and it is these actions which will shape your consciousness and make you “choose” your next body)

I'd be interested as to what the illusion is all about, wouldn't you?

In short, envy of god.
The entire universe (including you and everyone and everyone else in it) is meant for his enjoyment, and our enjoyment is actually achieved by seeing to his

My duress should actually be alleviated knowing that it is an illusion.

There is a difference between knowledge and realization.
For instance at the moment there is an anti-smoking advertising campaign that has footage of advanced cancer patients (bleeding brains, teeth falling out etc ... honestly you can’t eat a meal when you see it) along with the lyrics of a song “everyone knows”, yet still people continue to smoke. Why? Because there is a difference between knowledge and realization.

Instincts should kick in and my curiousity would be piqued, no doubt.

Depends how strong your “addiction” is, so to say. Sometimes its seen that at a funeral everyone will be struck by the gravity of how life is temporary and all material pursuits are temporary .... yet 5 minutes out of the funeral parlour they are back to bragging about the money they got last week and what they are going to spend it on today, the sex they’re going to get on the weekend, etc etc

Why would any soul want to continue living in this universe when they have the knowledge you've just imparted.

Because they have no realization. Its all on the mental platform.

Doesn't make sense to continue on in any material world as far as I can see.

Just wait till you turn the next corner and find some name, fame, adoration and distinction and see what happens

Do you mean to tell me that the soul is going to be under duress despite this knowledge?

Unfortunately, yes

SB 11.13.8 Sri Uddhava said: My dear Krishna, generally human beings know that material life brings great future unhappiness, and still they try to enjoy material life. My dear Lord, how can one in knowledge act just like a dog, an ass or a goat?

SB 11.13.9 The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Uddhava, a person bereft of intelligence first falsely identifies himself with the material body and mind, and when such false knowledge arises within one's consciousness, material passion, the cause of great suffering, pervades the mind, which by nature is situated in goodness. Then the mind, contaminated by passion, becomes absorbed in making and changing many plans for material advancement. Thus, by constantly thinking of the modes of material nature, a foolish person is afflicted with unbearable material desires.

IOW everything is momentarily forgotten while you choose your next life.

Why wait till next life?
Generally w have been living our lives in a such a constant state of illusion for so many life times that we have forgotten that we are even lost!

Convenient. Just how much knowledge do souls entertain? You make it sound as if they are all equal.

Sometimes its explained that the ignorance of the soul is something like a bad aroma carried by a breeze. We say that the air smells bad but actually the air is simply carrying the aroma by association. As soon as the same breeze loses the association, it doesn’t smell bad. Similarly, the moment we start dropping our issues of illusion (bodily identification etc) the default position of the soul and its contingent issues of knowledge start to manifest.

I could choose to be an amoeba in my next life, so willing.

Its all determined by karma – ie a combination of what you desire and deserve – I mean you wouldn’t get there by desiring to be an amoeba ... usually to sink so far down the evolutionary ladder one has to totally mess up the human form of life (perhaps a person who is hopelessly addicted to drugs to be in a state of constant ignorance because they can’t deal with life might be a suitable candidate .... life as amoeba is just so much simpler)

So souls all know about the illusion, No?

Just like all people know about smoking and cancer

Even if our souls are some kind of supersoul then why in the world would they opt to rejoin the material world?

Just on a technical point, the supersoul is an expansion of god that deals with issues of creating and maintaining this world (just so we can have a sphere to express our misdirected free will).
As for why we made the decision – bad intelligence – just try and speak to a chain smoking cancer patient for a few more clearer ideas

Is a new material world life form a soul's only choice? Material world must rank right up there in the soul travelogue.

Not sure what you mean by only choice – there is quite a range of diversity both way way below the human form of life as well as way way above it.
As for the ratio, the number of souls lured to the material world to express their free will compared to those who remain properly socialized in the spiritual world is comparable to the number of people in jail to those in normal society (even if you want to work with Stalin’s Russia, the vast majority are not in jail)

Paradoxical senses tingling. This happens a lot.

Hehe
Contrary to popular opinion, the ability to be full of questions and doubts in this regard is not a fault.