Lies Atheists Tell

[scorpius]

I am attacking the beliefs and assumptions of atheists, particularly the strain of atheists who propagate Christian bashing books..

FYI atheists have no beliefs
,maybe you should learn first what atheism is before dissing it

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/

and we KNOW what evils were done in the name of God,heck even your own book justifies anything.

www.evilbible.com

as compared to the respect for everyone confirmed by the American Atheists link above,
those atheist rulers in the past commiting atrocities didnt kill anyone in the name of atheism aka non belief but for the simple fact that to stay in power they had to be tough and ruthless,they were Dictators plain and simple,today we have a democratic system where such behaviour wouldnt be allowed.

well maybe until some president (GWB) says hes on a mission from God a CRUSADE even,,
and decides to bomb some country.. and all the religio-nuts cheer him on,
as MAJORITY of Americans ARE religious,right?
..or were you and some of your religious friends against that war??

However one day I was doing an internet search and was surprised and angered to see how many of these folks there were on the internet and that a whole cult had sprung up with what appeared to be the expressed purpose of destroying christian faith.
.

faith is belief in something thats NOT there,IOW it sucks

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Creationism.htm

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

http://www.nobeliefs.com/problemswithbeliefs.htm

heck any religion that promotes HATE against others needs to be eradicated as its a threat against anyone who doesnt share your particular fantasy.

 

[scorpius]

However, in truth, atheism asserts a universal negative position which is of course irrational. In addition, there is plenty of evidence in support of God. Even Dawkins admits that a one can make a case for a "deist god". I

spare us the BS
theres ZERO evidence for xian god,in fact the way its defined ,its Impossible to be real and you know it

http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

as far as Deist god goes,it may exist but if it doesnt interfere in our lives WHATs it good for?

 

[scorpius]

it was just a poor choice of words. The point is that time itself had a beginning, just as the biblical theist has asserted for thousands of years.

bible is wrong ...time always existed ,see

Draygombs paradox

Without Time God didn't have enough Time to decide to create Time.

God is defined as The Conscious First Cause -
The First Cause is That which caused Time.
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing ones mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Premises:

Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.

Conclusions:

Time is required for Change.
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.
God isn't The First Cause.
If God isn't The Conscious First Cause then God doesn't exist.
God doesn't exist.

 

[scorpius]

""If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

I agree, which is why I reject molecules to man evolution.

yeah its easier to believe that magic Invisible man did it, huh?
or was it Allah,or Buddha or some of these
www.godchecker.com

heres the real thing though

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

 

[nova900]

"What original montheistic faith? Paganism proceded monolatry as well as monotheism. Study ancient history from several sources( but not from Bob Jones U)"

I am not an English major but I don't think "proceded" is the word you are looking for. Nevertheless, if monotheism evolved from polytheism it must of devolved rather than evolved. Here is at least one citation (which is one more than your offered) that agrees that monotheism came first:

Schmidt, W., The Origin and Growth of Religion, Cooper Square, New York, 1971.


"Paul was most likely a construct created by an orthodox group of Christians in the early yrs of the first century. There is more evidence for characters from other mythical tales being based on real people than there is for Paul."

There is more evidence that Paul existed than just about anyone else in history and even modern liberal scholarship would agree with this. I am not interested in your irrational internet conspiracy theories other than to point out that this is where atheism leads.

Pardon the (sp) mistake.

You can only assume monotheism came first if you are taking the OTs' account as literal history,which is what you are doing.
Is this the site you got some of your information?

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t0w03monopolytheism.htm

It appears to be another apologetic site and not an unbiased source.
From that site:

Monotheism began with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. There is no evidence of people really turning away from that, and God, until you get to the time of Noah. In Genesis 6 you find that the sons of God married any daughters of men that they choose and had children by them. One can also see that their every inclination was evil; the earth was corrupt and full of violence. Men had turned away from God. God decided to wipe out the earth but he decided to save Noah and his family and two of every animal because Noah had found favor with God. At least one family was still monotheistic. After the flood God told Noah and his sons to multiply and fill the earth.

 

[phlogistician]

I am not an atheist for anything. Causality leads one to a single transendant cause for all things.

So you believe in Zeus?

 

[mynameisDan]

:thumbsup:

Dan;

You should really listen to some of the people here, atheist or not. Enmos, whom I've known for a few years now, is probably one of the more wiser individuals on this board and you could do well by listening to him.

Just because they believe differently than you doesn't make them any less of a person, or thier beliefs any less than yours.

You have to realize that what is right for you isn't always right for everyone else.

People are going to believe differently and some may even attack what your ideologies, but when you stoop to thier level and fight fire with fire, you are only hastening more conflict.

Again, despite who or what you believe, the only thing that matters is that you are happy with it. You don't like it when people tell you that you or your faith is wrong invalid, and thats OK. But you are doing the same thing in reverse. It's not your place to tell anyone they are wrong for having faith or lack thereof.

One's own spiritual/religious beliefs do not affect you or alter your life as long as no physical occurance happens. And if their words or beliefs do affect you to such an extent, that (in my personal opinion) only shows that you have insecurities or questions about your own beliefs.

Hell, I'm Buddhist and I get challenged and questioned all the time as I've done to others in the past. But I've learned through my years that whether you agree or disagree with someones religious beliefs, there is absolutely nothing you can say or do to change them.

Religion, spirituality and philosophy are very personal aspects and make up the foundation of each person whether they be Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or Atheist. We all take key morals and values and apply them to our own life as we see fit. And again, just because one takes morals and values from a different source than you do doesn't make them any less valid.

I don't think I stated that they did. I recall saying that I don't care what others believe. This is a board where people have vigorous discussions about a lot of issues, it isn't a love fest.

 

[Enmos]

I don't think I stated that they did. I recall saying that I don't care what others believe. This is a board where people have vigorous discussions about a lot of issues, it isn't a love fest.

Oh but you do care. You really really care a lot.

 

[mynameisDan]

"FYI atheists have no beliefs
,maybe you should learn first what atheism is before dissing it"

Or perhaps you should. evilbible.com, one of the web sites offered in your diatribe, debunks this notion completely.

 

[Oli]

"FYI atheists have no beliefs
,maybe you should learn first what atheism is before dissing it"

Or perhaps you should. evilbible.com, one of the web sites offered in your diatribe, debunks this notion completely.

Completely?
Oh dear, does that mean that I really do have religious beliefs even though I think I don't?
Simply because a web site as interpreted by you (I note you don't even post the "relevant" phrase that supports you) says I do.

 

[mynameisDan]

maybe you havent learned the rules of forum debating yet,

see,when someone asks a question to the posts you started,YOU have to provide the answer,comprende?

btw only CRETINISTS use the word Evolutionism.. NOT real scientists,

Really, I didn't realize the etymology of the word came from Crete....

Anyway, I like the word as it properly depicts the religious nature of the hypothesis.

As for the rules, when I make a post, I set the rules.

 

[mynameisDan]

Completely?
Oh dear, does that mean that I really do have religious beliefs even though I think I don't?
Simply because a web site as interpreted by you (I note you don't even post the "relevant" phrase that supports you) says I do.

it is testimony from a hostile witness, one you have supported with your links. No dictionary in the world defines atheism as you are defining it. You don't get to define words to your liking, sorry.

 

[mynameisDan]

Pardon the (sp) mistake.

You can only assume monotheism came first if you are taking the OTs' account as literal history,which is what you are doing.
Is this the site you got some of your information?

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t0w03monopolytheism.htm

It appears to be another apologetic site and not an unbiased source.
From that site:

Monotheism began with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. There is no evidence of people really turning away from that, and God, until you get to the time of Noah. In Genesis 6 you find that the sons of God married any daughters of men that they choose and had children by them. One can also see that their every inclination was evil; the earth was corrupt and full of violence. Men had turned away from God. God decided to wipe out the earth but he decided to save Noah and his family and two of every animal because Noah had found favor with God. At least one family was still monotheistic. After the flood God told Noah and his sons to multiply and fill the earth.

Actually it was here:

http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v11n2p09.htm

"Wilhelm Schmidt (1868-1954) was among the foremost authorities on linguistics, ethnology and the history of religion whose pioneering work was done in the first half of the twentieth century. Born in Germany, he became a Catholic priest in 1892 and a dedicated scholar of world-wide renown from 1895 until his death. He founded the internationally famous journal for ethnology and languages Anthropos in 1906 and edited it for many years. He also founded the Anthropos Institute which he directed from 1932 to 1950. Both the journal and the institute began in Moedling near Vienna, Austria. When Fr. Schmidt precipitately fled from Austria to Switzerland in 1938 to escape the Nazis, angered by his opposition to their evolutionist racism, Anthropos and the Institute moved there with him. After his death they relocated in St. Augustin near Bonn, West Germany.

Fr. Schmidt served as professor at the universities of Vienna from 1921 to 1938, and of Freiburg, Switzerland, from 1939 to 1951. He established the ethnological department of the papal Missionary Ethnological Museum at the Vatican in 1925 and served as its director from 1927 to 1939. These are only highlights of his incredibly diligent and fruitful life.

Fr. Schmidt published over 600 books and articles. They include his pioneering linguistic work on the connections between the languages of the peoples of Southeast Asia and those of the South Seas. This was "one of the major accomplishments in the field of linguistics, which ranks in importance with the proof of the relationship among all of the Indo-European languages .... the language group proposed by Father Schmidt as the 'austric linguistic stock' embraces almost two-thirds of the inhabited area of the earth."4 Equal in importance is his monumental 12-volume work The Origin of the Idea of God, published between 1912 and 1955. A condensation of the earlier volumes was published as The Origin and Growth of Religion in America,2 and it is well worth reading. Only two other books by Schmidt are available in English, The Culture Historical Method of Ethnology3 and The High Gods in North America."

The bias of the web site aside, Dr. Schmidt was a scholar of the first rank and his views conflict with yours. Furthermore, he was not an evangelical but rather a catholic priest. The view that monotheism derived from polytheism is a myth.

 

[mynameisDan]

:tempted:

just pulling your religous chain there Danny ppffffff..........

eace:
M

what is the point?

 

[phlogistician]

I am not an atheist for anything. Causality leads one to a single transendant cause for all things.

So you believe in Zeus?

 

[mynameisDan]

So you believe in Zeus?

I believe the Greeks were smarter and wiser than any atheist because they understood that there must be a God. That their "god" was a corrupted version of the true God is not surprising, they had wandered far from their monotheistic ancestry.

 

[nova900]

I believe the Greeks were smarter and wiser than any atheist because they understood that there must be a God. That their "god" was a corrupted version of the true God is not surprising, they had wandered far from their monotheistic ancestry.

The ancient Greeks were monotheistic before being polytheistic??
Can you provide some reference material or sources that back that up?

 

[Sarkus]

I believe the Greeks were smarter and wiser than any atheist because they understood that there must be a God. That their "god" was a corrupted version of the true God is not surprising, they had wandered far from their monotheistic ancestry.

"must be a God"??
Please define this "true God", then please provide evidence to support that definition.

I thought at best one could say "The Universe must have been created... or not-created... we don't actually know."

If you know otherwise, sufficiently to say "must" with anything more than mere confidence, please state it.

 

[Leo Volont]

Actually, the real fault of Atheists is that they go about their Arguments like Lawyers... they phrase their discussions in argument designed for them to win. They focus narrowly on a God based on primitive Hebrew and Greek Theological Premises. I have never met an Atheist yet who discussed any Theological Notion of God less than 1000 years old. They dredge up Old Theology and Flawed Religions. They beat up weak Enemies.

Well, it must be said to their credit that most atheists are only amateurs. Do we really expect that Atheists should have degrees in Comparative Religion. Well, if we were to give them any intellectual credit, yes... they should know something about what they insist they have made up their minds about.

As it is, they express all this bitterness and hatred toward God and Religion while not really having even begun any disciplined study in Religion, Spirituality, Psychology, Socialogy, History... everything that Religion impacts upon.

Indeed, Atheists all seem to meet about the same Profile... adolescent mentalities fresh rebelling against parental authority and eager to express their own individuality. They correlate 'God' with all the mores, customs and traditions taught to them by their parents and their parent's people. Their newly discovered Individualism rejects all that. Of course, they would not wish to undergo years of study to give the least chance for God or Religion. They already KNOW what they want to CONCLUDE.

I WANT TO BE FREE. I WANT TO BE ME. I WANT TO SIN AND HAVE DIRTY FUN. SO THERE IS NO GOD.

Atheism is not really that difficult to figure out. Toddlers in a tantrum fit. Thats Atheism.

 

[Enmos]

I believe the Greeks were smarter and wiser than any atheist because they understood that there must be a God. That their "god" was a corrupted version of the true God is not surprising, they had wandered far from their monotheistic ancestry.

That is your only "argument" (bold part).