Justice and Rape Culture: The Women Are Speaking

[RainbowSingularity]

they want the victim to be quiet and if some people have to be sacrificed (as long as it's not them) then it's okay as long as business as usual can continue by covering it up. but it's not okay to cover it up because it's a social festering wound and will encourage more of that behavior from the perpetrator as well as signal to other would-be perpetrators to do the same as it becomes more prevalent in society as there is no deterrant.

(supposition/hypothesis)
violence is a good deterrant(self defense)
it is quick effective and delivers a clear message.
giving the perpetrator an immediate harsh beating will solve the problem quickly.

this is called corporal punishment and is supported by the majority of the people in the usa.

why is it denied for women ?(surely this is a cultural norm?)
why are USA women denied the ability to meter out corporal punishment even though the majority of the population support capital & corporal ?

anomaly ?

why is sexual harrasment in the work place considered a traffic violation rather than an act of violence that demands self defense ?
who is driving this culture and maintaining it ?

 

[Bells]

It’s not about what his actual intentions were, it’s about what they could prove they were. Since he actually went to a location to pick up some items from another vehicle, he could argue that his decision to attack her was made at that location.

There is no evidence that he picked anything up from that location.

All articles point to his telling her he had to go there to pick some items up. He then asked her to get out to help him load things into his SUV. When she got out and approached the rear of the car, he tackled her to the ground and strangled her. When she came to, he was apparently holding his penis in his hand and was putting it back into his pants and zipping himself up. He then let her get her stuff out of the car and then drove off, apparently to work.

So nothing suggests he was loading anything into the car at all. He stopped the car, she got out of the car with him and he tackled her to the ground. Then he drove off after assaulting her.

It has every appearance of being a ruse and thus, premeditated.

Again, they could only charge him with what the witness could recollect. If there was another witness or security video to document the attack maybe such contact could have been shown, but there wasn’t.

Which is unfortunate.

He picked his location well.

While the attack occurred in daylight, the actual site of the attack may have been secluded enough to avoid witnesses. But the way he left the scene, it didn't seem he was too concerned about the act being reported to police. Really odd.

It is not odd at all when you look at it in its entirety.

He was not too concerned because his victim is Native American.

https://communityaccountability.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/decolonizing-antirape-law.pdf

https://www.lakotalaw.org/news/2017-12-05/notinvisible

https://www.amnestyusa.org/pdfs/mazeofinjustice.pdf

Had he done this to a random white woman he picked up, the results would more than likely have been vastly different.

Police bias is real.

Think of it this way. Do you really see the criminal justice system going above and beyond for a man who kidnaps a white woman, strangles her until she passes out, because he wants her to believe she is going to die so he can sexually get off on it, and shows absolutely no remorse whatsoever over what he has done?

Do you see the prosecutor referring to him as a "gentleman" if his victim was white?

He may very well have had some practice with this behavior. Maybe he was inspired by this particular genre of porn.

Choking women is all the rage. It's branded as fun, sexy 'breath play'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/13/choking-women-me-too-breath-play

Maybe the wife was a willing participant in his fetish as well.

Could be.

 

[Capracus]

There is no evidence that he picked anything up from that location.

All articles point to his telling her he had to go there to pick some items up. He then asked her to get out to help him load things into his SUV. When she got out and approached the rear of the car, he tackled her to the ground and strangled her. When she came to, he was apparently holding his penis in his hand and was putting it back into his pants and zipping himself up. He then let her get her stuff out of the car and then drove off, apparently to work.

So nothing suggests he was loading anything into the car at all. He stopped the car, she got out of the car with him and he tackled her to the ground. Then he drove off after assaulting her.

It has every appearance of being a ruse and thus, premeditated.

This is how the prosecution saw it.

Mr. Schneider plead guilty to one count of assault in the second degree, a class B felony in Alaska, in exchange for the State’s dismissal of the remaining charges – notably, first-degree kidnapping and first-degree harassment. The State dismissed the most serious charge based on the conclusion that the State would be unable to prove the kidnapping at trial. Kidnapping requires that the victim be “restrained” or moved against his or her will. Additional investigation determined that the victim willingly got into Mr. Schneider’s vehicle and willingly drove with him to the location of the assault. Under these circumstances, the criminal charge of kidnapping (as defined under Alaska law) could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.law.state.ak.us/press/releases/2018/DAO/092118-Schneider.html

 

[Bells]

This is how the prosecution saw it.

Mr. Schneider plead guilty to one count of assault in the second degree, a class B felony in Alaska, in exchange for the State’s dismissal of the remaining charges – notably, first-degree kidnapping and first-degree harassment. The State dismissed the most serious charge based on the conclusion that the State would be unable to prove the kidnapping at trial. Kidnapping requires that the victim be “restrained” or moved against his or her will. Additional investigation determined that the victim willingly got into Mr. Schneider’s vehicle and willingly drove with him to the location of the assault. Under these circumstances, the criminal charge of kidnapping (as defined under Alaska law) could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.law.state.ak.us/press/releases/2018/DAO/092118-Schneider.html

Okay.. That makes a tad more sense in light of the legislation. It doesn't make sense in general, but legislatively, they worked with what they had, which seems woefully inadequate.

On a different subject matter in regards to this case..

Did you read the last few paragraphs?

While the facts of this case were particularly disturbing, Mr. Schneider’s offensive physical contact with bodily fluid such as semen is not categorized as a sex crime under Alaska law. Despite this limitation, the prosecutor felt Mr. Schneider needed sex offender treatment. The only way to achieve that result was to have Mr. Schneider agree to the probation conditions. Thus, the prosecutor required Mr. Schneider to undergo sex offender treatment and comply with other monitoring conditions as a condition of the plea agreement.

During sentencing, the prosecutor explained why the Anchorage District Attorney’s Office supported the resolution. The word choice used – that is, that some would view the sentence as a “pass” – was unfortunate and misunderstood. The prosecutor was attempting to explain that while the agreed upon sentence seemed lenient, it was consistent with current Alaska law and based on a thorough review of the facts of case.

“The aggressive prosecution of violent crime – especially violence against women – has always been, and remains, a priority for us,” said Director Skidmore. “In this case, attending sex offender treatment is important. His actions may have not technically qualified as a sex offense, but it is clearly appropriate under the circumstances and will hopefully help prevent him from doing more harm in the future.”​

In my home state in Australia, for example, Schneider's actions would warrant a conviction for an indecent act, which would see him registered as a sex offender.

Reading through Alaska's sex offenses laws, it seems astonishingly narrow and barely covers other forms of sex offenses, such as the type that Schneider committed. The fact that they saw him as a sex offender and had him go through the sex offender's program, while being unable to legally add his name to the sex offender's registration screams of a need to revise their sexual offenses laws.

 

[Tiassa]

Reading through Alaska's sex offenses laws ....

If I say, "It's Alaska", that would serve to remind we're talking about the "rape capital of the U.S."↱, as such. It's almost a way of life↱ on the Last Frontier.

 

[wegs]

Sadly, rape culture reveals itself, even on a forum like this. Men who feel the need to post sexist comments and vulgar messages about women, or joke about rape in a profile post, for example. As a woman, I find it offensive in a broad sense, but also, because this is a science forum. If I were lurking on a trashy website, I'd half-expect to see all kinds of rude, sexist comments aimed at women.

Rape culture doesn't only exist because of men's behavior towards women, it exists also because of apathy.

 

[Write4U]

Sadly, rape culture reveals itself, even on a forum like this. Men who feel the need to post sexist comments and vulgar messages about women, or joke about rape in a profile post, for example. As a woman, I find it offensive in a broad sense, but also, because this is a science forum. If I were lurking on a trashy website, I'd half-expect to see all kinds of rude, sexist comments aimed at women.

Rape culture doesn't only exist because of men's behavior towards women, it exists also because of apathy.

Rest assured that most of us notice these details and act accordingly......women are beautiful humans....

 

[wegs]

Rest assured that most of us notice these details and act accordingly......women are beautiful humans....

Do you report these posts when you see them?

I've noticed that quite a few men seem to support women's rights and equality, and are deeply outraged over the #metoo scandals, but when a sexist/misogynist is right in their midst online or offline making blatantly rude, sexist comments, they do nothing.

 

[Bowser]

but when a sexist/misogynist is right in their midst online or offline making blatantly rude, sexist comments, they do nothing.

So women need white knights to defend their honor?

 

[wegs]

So women need white knights to defend their honor?

Why do you feel the need to joke about rape and post trashy stuff about women here...on a science site?

I don’t need a man to defend my honor, that wasn’t my point. Not even close.

 

[Bowser]

Why do you feel the need to joke about rape and post trashy stuff about women here...on a science site?

Life is messy, Wegs. Whatever I post here is pretty mundane relative to what the world has to offer. I don't believe I post trashy stuff about women on Sciforums. I might disagree with their arguments, but I don't look down on them.

I don’t need a man to defend my honor, that wasn’t my point. Not even close.

So why complain about how men deal with women's issues? They are individuals too.

 

[wegs]

Life is messy, Wegs. Whatever I post here is pretty mundane relative to what the world has to offer. I don't believe I post trashy stuff about women on Sciforums. I might disagree with their arguments, but I don't look down on them.

Yes, you do post trashy stuff. You know what you’ve posted. I haven’t been active in a few years here and this is what I’ve seen in the short time back. It’s just disheartening to be reading a thread and see a trashy video inserted or a comment about rape on a science site. If I were on a trashy site, sure...that would seem trivial.

So why complain about how men deal with women's issues? They are individuals too.

I don’t think you get it. My point is that there are men who are outraged over #metoo and post in advocacy of women’s rights and share how they loathe Trump’s treatment of women, but when they see a guy joke about rape or post a trashy video about women in their midst, they don’t say anything.

That’s not white knighting, that’s being decent.

 

[Bowser]

Yes, you do post trashy stuff. You know what you’ve posted. I haven’t been active in a few years here and this is what I’ve seen in the short time back. It’s just disheartening to be reading a thread and see a trashy video inserted or a comment about rape on a science site. If I were on a trashy site, sure...that would seem trivial.

Is this more than a science forum, Wegs? I mean, we talk politics, religion, ethics and morality. Is sex not part of our experience too? As for the video, it was meant to be a joke, but of course it had to become a problem.

I don’t think you get it. My point is that there are men who are outraged over #metoo and post in advocacy of women’s rights and share how they loathe Trump’s treatment of women, but when they see a guy joke about rape or post a trashy video about women in their midst, they don’t say anything.

Perhaps they appreciate the humor in those posts. It's serious only if you make it serious. I doubt they believed I was seriously considering burning and pillaging, much less raping.

 

[wegs]

Sure, if you started a thread to discuss sex, it’s a discussion forum. That would make sense.But your demeaning posts, like the vulgar video, was posted in a political thread. You post a “joke” about rape, where everyone can see it on the front page.

I like jokes but your “jokes” remind me of Trump’s “grab ‘em by the...” comment and how he laughed it off.

I haven’t been as active here until recently but it will be disheartening if “jokes” like this become the norm.

 

[Bowser]

Sure, if you started a thread to discuss sex, it’s a discussion forum. That would make sense.But your demeaning posts, like the vulgar video, was posted in a political thread.

That thread was started as a joke, but I did consider entering the presidential contest (I thought it might look good on my resume).

You post a “joke” about rape, where everyone can see it on the front page.

Was it a joke about rape or simply a joke about boredom?

I like jokes but your “jokes” remind me of Trump’s “grab ‘em by the...” comment and how he laughed it off.

You seem to be focused on one word...'rape." Had I used the word "molest," would that have been better?

I haven’t been as active here until recently but it will be disheartening if “jokes” like this become the norm.

Well, I certainly don't want you to leave. There is an "ignore" option that you can use. But if you enjoy being offended, I will always be here for you.

 

[wegs]

I've always associated offline for the most part with men who respect women, and the idea of them posting vulgar videos about women, sexist comments, or joking about rape, just seems so foreign to me, I guess. *shrug*

 

[billvon]

So women need white knights to defend their honor?

No, some MEN need other men (and women) to remind them that what they post is not OK.

 

[billvon]

You seem to be focused on one word...'rape." Had I used the word "molest," would that have been better?

Given that 25% of US women have been raped, and 46% of women have been sexually assaulted (i.e. "molested") - probably not.

Here's an idea. Perhaps find a topic to make jokes about other than rape or sexual assault?

 

[Bowser]

Welp, I suppose we need use the word "rape" more sparingly in the future. As for future videos featuring women dancers, that too will need be appropriate...

 

[wegs]

lol Not quite.

Actually, the video you posted showed a weird guy singing sexually disgusting graphic lyrics about all the things he wants women to do to him, sexually. It was very educational. The ''dancers'' weren't the issue.

You post a ''joke'' about rape...

Again, if this was a trashy site, then it would fit. But, SF isn't that kind of a site.

Why not just accept some responsibility that this kind of stuff is inappropriate, and move on.