Jesus Without The Bible...?

[Regular0ldguy]

I think of him more as a guru, he teaches you how to make your own decisions.

And we get all this high minded teaching through that multiply edited anthology of stories by 66 middle eastern authors (not counting those left on the cutting room floor)?

That kind of sounds like he's just phoning it in. No "second effort" like they teach in sports? Sounds more like "good enough for government work."

 

[NMSquirrel]

And we get all this high minded teaching through that multiply edited anthology of stories by 66 middle eastern authors (not counting those left on the cutting room floor)?

i do believe the bible is a guide book that helps one to think for oneself, and to not rely on a book to do your thinking for you..(why/how else could errors in the bible translate to 'Gods message'?)

That kind of sounds like he's just phoning it in.

I will still argue that 'proof' would corrupt us as a species,we would become dependent on Gods will, not our own..we would become leeches..we would not do anything unless God told us to.

 

[Lori_7]

And we get all this high minded teaching through that multiply edited anthology of stories by 66 middle eastern authors (not counting those left on the cutting room floor)?

That kind of sounds like he's just phoning it in. No "second effort" like they teach in sports? Sounds more like "good enough for government work."

that's your wishful thinking talking.

 

[Lori_7]

Quite judgmental up there on your little pulpit aren't you.

you guys are a lot more obvious than you think.

 

[Lori_7]

AFRAID? With the risks I'm taking by telling an infinite number of supernatural postulations to go pound sand? I could end up in zillion kinds of hell, if even some of them panned out.

I would LOVE to be able to know more than we can actually know. Just can't. But I'm trying.

how are you trying?

 

[Lori_7]

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

 

[gmilam]

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

So says the lady who claims to be the Tree of Life. :bugeye:

 

[Regular0ldguy]

how are you trying?

Studying. Reading. Learning. Reflecting. Asking. Wondering. Thinking.

 

[Regular0ldguy]

I will still argue that 'proof' would corrupt us as a species,we would become dependent on Gods will, not our own..we would become leeches..we would not do anything unless God told us to.

If he showed up, do you think that would obligate him to start the handouts?

 

[gmilam]

I will still argue that 'proof' would corrupt us as a species,we would become dependent on Gods will, not our own..we would become leeches..we would not do anything unless God told us to.

But he offered proof in the past. Healing cripples, raising from the dead, walking on water, water into wine. The old and new testament are both flooded with miracles.

That's a little unfair doncha think? Bronze age sheep herders get miracles, but we're supposed to have faith in a flawed book of 2000 year old legends?

 

[Lori_7]

So says the lady who claims to be the Tree of Life. :bugeye:

it's what i was told. i heard it, and you think i'm crazy because of it. right?

 

[Lori_7]

Studying. Reading. Learning. Reflecting. Asking. Wondering. Thinking.

asking who?

and if you're sincerely interested, then why are you so cynical?

 

[NMSquirrel]

If he showed up, do you think that would obligate him to start the handouts?

i think its more of we would expect him to.

 

[Regular0ldguy]

asking who?

and if you're sincerely interested, then why are you so cynical?

Everybody with half a brain.

My cynicism is directed at epistemologies which allow knowledge to be found which is unverifiable, untestable, unrepeatable and known only to a unique knowing individual who distributes that knowledge only by report and the only reason to believe it is by granting the reporter the authority to find knowledge in their special way.

Short version: subjective.

See, I know how to make stuff up too. I have an imagination. And I know that doing that doesn't make it real.

And I know that even though you can use it to postulate existing mechanisms to explain our world, that isn't the end of the story. The postulation has to truly explain real things that happen in the world.

 

[Regular0ldguy]

i think its more of we would expect him to.

I suspect he could disabuse us of that notion pretty quickly. I'm thinking if he shows up and there is no more doubt and he demostrates who he is and what he can do, that we are going to believe what he says and do what he says. I sure as hell would. I mean, if after that you become a useless slug waiting to be saved from your own uselessness, step to the side.

 

[NMSquirrel]

that we are going to believe what he says and do what he says. I sure as hell would.

this is what i am saying, if he were to prove himself, we would voluntarily lose our free will,we would wait until God told us to do something, to do it.

to me God is there whispering in my ear(figuratively), giving me advice on the best course of action, he does not hate me cause i choose not to listen to him, the consequences of not listening to him is not punishment by him,but the result of my own choices,

its alot like parent and child,you aren't gonna hate your child cause they disobey, parents tend to be more of a 'told you so,when are you going to learn to listen to me', i think God is the same way..just shakes his head and wonders if we are ever gonna listen.

 

[Regular0ldguy]

That seems a lot more like rationalization than being rational. Being told what the rules are and what the consequences are and the basis for them doesn't cause "everyone" to lose their free will. Some will be rule breakers by choice. Some just useless. Heck, even following orders isn't losing your free will. You have a duty to ignore bad orders (Nuremberg trials and "A Few Good Men").

But your god is being so subtle he's inscrutable. We are all guessing because the message is so confused and poorly sourced.

 

[gmilam]

it's what i was told. i heard it, and you think i'm crazy because of it. right?

I suspect you may be delusional. You've already acknowledged that you went "loopy" for a while.

I'll concede it's possible that I've never been fucked up enough for God to show up and try to straighten me out.

 

[Lori_7]

I suspect you may be delusional. You've already acknowledged that you went "loopy" for a while.

I'll concede it's possible that I've never been fucked up enough for God to show up and try to straighten me out.

or perhaps you just don't have the balls to go through it so he doesn't bother.

i've had plenty of people tell me that if they had experienced what i did, they would have committed themselves to an institution and doused themselves with drugs to make it go away. i think i handled it quite well considering.

 

[Lori_7]

Everybody with half a brain.

My cynicism is directed at epistemologies which allow knowledge to be found which is unverifiable, untestable, unrepeatable and known only to a unique knowing individual who distributes that knowledge only by report and the only reason to believe it is by granting the reporter the authority to find knowledge in their special way.

Short version: subjective.

See, I know how to make stuff up too. I have an imagination. And I know that doing that doesn't make it real.

And I know that even though you can use it to postulate existing mechanisms to explain our world, that isn't the end of the story. The postulation has to truly explain real things that happen in the world.

doesn't it stand to reason that if there is a god, that god could prove that to you? you then, would become the reporter, but more importantly, the observer. you would find that the reporting is very secondary to the purpose of the observation.