Jesus will come

[Arioch]

@Rob --

Have you ever headed for a banning and been banned? Or deserved a sacking and got sacked? You still don't appreciate the feeling. Permanently banned, when can you return. Never!

And if the banning were already decided on, as my position in the christian afterlife is, then I really wouldn't give a shit and I'd speak my mind. The powers that be would have already decided my fate(according to christian theology, mixed up and incongruous as it is, my place in hell is already decided), therefore I would have nothing to lose because it would already be lost and there would be a chance for me to gain, even if it was only in my mind, hence my reaction would likely be the same(though I don't see myself wanting to physically strike any of the mods or admins here the way I would want to strike Jesus for introducing eternal damnation in the first place).

Same with Jesus, if he was to return, and approached to banish you, what do you do?

I already said what I'd like to do, whether it would be in my power to do so or not is an entirely different question. But the answer is that my desires wouldn't change. God/Jesus royally fucked up this universe in ways that can only be described as evil, and I would very much have a few choice words(and perhaps a few lacerations and maybe a few broken bones) for him/it/them.

First and foremost, you never thought that would ever happen in the first place. So immediately you are on the back foot.

When your father is a SEAL(and an atheist) and your mother is a fundie, you learn to roll with the unexpected. Lot's of wilderness survival training helps in that too. I honestly don't think I'd have too much trouble adapting to the situation, it's not like I'd have much of a choice(though, according to christian theology again I never had a choice in the first place).

And as he approaches you, well you can see the myriad of angels backing him up, its clearly not the time to argue.

I don't think that you really get it. The worst that they could do to me is throw me in hell. Given that I'm going to hell already as a denier of Christ all of my actions from then on would be consequence free and thus it's the perfect chance to argue or start a brawl, especially given that the bastard has it coming.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in those angels if I were you, remember that neither they nor god were capable of something as laughably simple as stopping an army of iron chariots(which is even more laughable considering that god would supposedly have unlimited resources at it's disposal) and I could accomplish such a feat, doesn't that show that I'm more powerful(or at the very least more intelligent) than god itself.

 

[NMSquirrel]

@Saint --



Oh I imagine that I would say a good number of things, but that certainly wouldn't be one of them. My first response would be something along the lines of "You really fucked this place up, and all for your selfish desires, go fuck yourself." Perhaps with a bit more profanity and maybe even a slap across his face.

to which he would respond..i wasn't here..you screwed it up all by yourselves..

 

[Arioch]

@NM --

Now that's an odd position for a christian to take. Are you saying that god wasn't around when it created everything? Damn, how do you manage to fit that square peg with your beliefs? Such internal inconsistency would drive me to the mad house.

 

[Robittybob1]

@Rob --



And if the banning were already decided on, as my position in the christian afterlife is, then I really wouldn't give a shit and I'd speak my mind. The powers that be would have already decided my fate(according to christian theology, mixed up and incongruous as it is, my place in hell is already decided), therefore I would have nothing to lose because it would already be lost and there would be a chance for me to gain, even if it was only in my mind, hence my reaction would likely be the same(though I don't see myself wanting to physically strike any of the mods or admins here the way I would want to strike Jesus for introducing eternal damnation in the first place).



I already said what I'd like to do, whether it would be in my power to do so or not is an entirely different question. But the answer is that my desires wouldn't change. God/Jesus royally fucked up this universe in ways that can only be described as evil, and I would very much have a few choice words(and perhaps a few lacerations and maybe a few broken bones) for him/it/them.



When your father is a SEAL(and an atheist) and your mother is a fundie, you learn to roll with the unexpected. Lot's of wilderness survival training helps in that too. I honestly don't think I'd have too much trouble adapting to the situation, it's not like I'd have much of a choice(though, according to christian theology again I never had a choice in the first place).



I don't think that you really get it. The worst that they could do to me is throw me in hell. Given that I'm going to hell already as a denier of Christ all of my actions from then on would be consequence free and thus it's the perfect chance to argue or start a brawl, especially given that the bastard has it coming.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in those angels if I were you, remember that neither they nor god were capable of something as laughably simple as stopping an army of iron chariots(which is even more laughable considering that god would supposedly have unlimited resources at it's disposal) and I could accomplish such a feat, doesn't that show that I'm more powerful(or at the very least more intelligent) than god itself.

You are desperately lost till you are joyfully found.

 

[Arioch]

Given what the christian god has supposedly done and his unbelievably evil nature, I think that I'd rather stay lost.

 

[Robittybob1]

Given what the christian god has supposedly done and his unbelievably evil nature, I think that I'd rather stay lost.

Focus on Jesus. What evil did he do? Make him your Lord. Forget the rest.

 

[Arioch]

@Rob --

Oh come on, you're not going to be able to convert me, especially since christianity was the religion I deconverted from. Better than you have tried and failed.

As for what evil Jesus did, I can go two different routes with that one. The first is probably the easiest since it's biblical and comes straight from Jesus instead of from god(as the rest of the law did), and that's to say that Jesus' evil was the application of eternal punishment(which appears only as an exception for five individuals in judaism) to everyone but his followers, an act which deliberately doomed billions, perhaps hundreds of billions, to an eternity of torture. Hardly sounds like a "good" act to me.

The other route I could go is to say that because Jesus is(and isn't) god, that all of god's evil is Jesus' evil. Either way I go I can hold Hitler up as a better example of morality than either Jesus or the christian god.

 

[Robittybob1]

@Rob --

Oh come on, you're not going to be able to convert me, especially since christianity was the religion I deconverted from. Better than you have tried and failed.

As for what evil Jesus did, I can go two different routes with that one. The first is probably the easiest since it's biblical and comes straight from Jesus instead of from god(as the rest of the law did), and that's to say that Jesus' evil was the application of eternal punishment(which appears only as an exception for five individuals in judaism) to everyone but his followers, an act which deliberately doomed billions, perhaps hundreds of billions, to an eternity of torture. Hardly sounds like a "good" act to me.

The other route I could go is to say that because Jesus is(and isn't) god, that all of god's evil is Jesus' evil. Either way I go I can hold Hitler up as a better example of morality than either Jesus or the christian god.

What would I convert you to? Hey neither of those two arguments seem to make sense to me.
I'm probably lost as much as you, I was doomed just like you. But I came to realise that Jesus was on the right track. So I started following him. Him alone and don't worry about the rest.
I know exactly where you are coming from.

 

[scorpius]

Focus on Jesus. What evil did he do? Make him your Lord. Forget the rest.

you dont know jesus very well do you

www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

 

[Robittybob1]

you dont know jesus very well do you

www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

No that's the Jesus I know. He is just about as bad as being on the Science forums!

 

[NMSquirrel]

@NM --

Now that's an odd position for a christian to take. Are you saying that god wasn't around when it created everything? Damn, how do you manage to fit that square peg with your beliefs? Such internal inconsistency would drive me to the mad house.

pointing out the fallicy of your logic..

or at least the anti-theist logic..

they say God does not exist yet they are the first to blame him for things being screwed up..

 

[Saint]

yeah, why balme God if God does not exist?

 

[Arioch]

@Rob --

Hey neither of those two arguments seem to make sense to me.

It's quite simple really. In the first argument we see Jesus expanding eternal damnation to every single person who isn't his follower. Now this is an infinite(never ending) punishment for a finite crime, thus the punishment does not fit the crime and can only be seen as unjust(by any definition that doesn't make a mockery of the word). Not only is it unjust, but punishing billions of otherwise innocent people for something that they couldn't avoid can only be described as evil as these people haven't knowingly committed any crimes and thus certainly don't deserve an infinite punishment. Hence, Jesus is evil as he originated what is possibly the most evil and unjust punishment system ever devised by anyone, anywhere.

In the second argument we come to the Trinity, where Jesus and god are supposedly one being. Thus Jesus is guilty of whatever evils god is guilty of because Jesus is god. And if you've read your old testament then you'll know that god is the greatest mass murderer in the history of the universe, wiping out the "entire" human race at one point.

Either way Jesus is evil, you can pick which evil you'd rather worship.

But I came to realise that Jesus was on the right track. So I started following him. Him alone and don't worry about the rest.

Well unlike you I lost the ability to partition my brain so effectively. I actually care about whether or not my beliefs and opinions are internally consistent.

I know exactly where you are coming from.

No you don't, you obviously have no idea where I'm coming from. Not only have you not gone through what I've gone through(and obviously you haven't read the bible as thoroughly as I have, but that goes for virtually all, if not all, of the christians on this site), but you couldn't even begin to imagine the family hell I've had to go through as the only atheist child of a fundamentalist christian family.

@NM --

pointing out the fallicy of your logic..

or at least the anti-theist logic..

they say God does not exist yet they are the first to blame him for things being screwed up..

There is no fallacy in my logic. My statement went as follows:

If Jesus returned my actions would likely be X, Y, and Z.

All of my statements in this thread have been operating under the assumption that god and Jesus exist, assumptions which I have granted for the sake of the thread. So by calling god evil there is an unstated "if god exists then..." before the statement. Granting an assumption for the sake of an argument or discussion is not a logical fallacy, it's a thought experiment.

Do I actually blame god for the state of the world/universe? Of course not. How could I blame something that(at least for the christian god) doesn't exist? However can I grant that existence and logically extrapolate from there? Of course, and no fallacies are involved.

 

[Robittybob1]

yeah, why balme God if God does not exist?

Same goes for you Saint. How can you suggest anything other than God does exist?

 

[NMSquirrel]

@NM --

There is no fallacy in my logic. My statement went as follows:

If Jesus returned my actions would likely be X, Y, and Z.

this is tailored to your attitude of jesus..i doubt that if jesus were to appear before you,that this would be your actions..you would pry be so shocked that he does exist you would pry be speechless..as far as slapping him, i don't think you would because you would be afraid of retaliation from him.

IOW, you do not know what you would do if jesus were to appear before you, until that actually happened..

anyway..this is not to start any arguments,but just to post something..haven't had anything to post recently of any substance..

 

[Arioch]

@NM --

this is tailored to your attitude of jesus..i doubt that if jesus were to appear before you,that this would be your actions..you would pry be so shocked that he does exist you would pry be speechless..

That's a pretty bold assumption considering that you're quite obviously not qualified to make it. Not only do you know very little about me, and absolutely nothing about how I respond in a crisis, but you have absolutely no idea what the second coming would potentially be like. Given that I'm not only trained in survival(I would be fine should society collapse tomorrow, unlike most people here) but I'm also a trained First Responder meaning that I actually know how to handle a crisis(and have on several occasions).

I mean, it was a nice try, and perhaps you'd have been right if you were dealing with an average internet user, but I'm not one of those.

as far as slapping him, i don't think you would because you would be afraid of retaliation from him.

See, you're failing to understand exactly what Rob was failing to understand. If Jesus returns then I'm automatically going to hell because I'm a denier of Christ. According to Jesus himself that's where I'm going, so what retaliation could I possibly fear? Like I said, My actions at that point would be consequence free because I'm already going to hell and apparently not even god can change that(according to the bible anyways). The worst thing that Jesus or god could possibly do at that point is send me to hell, and since I'm going there anyways they may as well not be able to do anything.

IOW, you do not know what you would do if jesus were to appear before you, until that actually happened..

And? So what?

Nobody "knows" what they're going to do before they do it under any circumstances, so what you've said is true but trivial. However even if I don't "know" for a fact what I'd do under these circumstances, I can still take a guess at it, and my guess is going to be a hell of a lot better than yours because I have much more data on which to base my guess.

Besides, I never said that I "knew" what I would do. I said what I thought that I would probably do. Big difference.

 

[NMSquirrel]

@NM --

See, you're failing to understand exactly what Rob was failing to understand. If Jesus returns then I'm automatically going to hell because I'm a denier of Christ. According to Jesus himself that's where I'm going, so what retaliation could I possibly fear? Like I said, My actions at that point would be consequence free because I'm already going to hell and apparently not even god can change that(according to the bible anyways). The worst thing that Jesus or god could possibly do at that point is send me to hell, and since I'm going there anyways they may as well not be able to do anything.

are you sure?
i believe you would have a chance to repent, are you saying you would not repent even if jesus were to stand in front of you and ask you to repent?

Nobody "knows" what they're going to do before they do it under any circumstances, so what you've said is true but trivial. However even if I don't "know" for a fact what I'd do under these circumstances, I can still take a guess at it, and my guess is going to be a hell of a lot better than yours because I have much more data on which to base my guess.

Besides, I never said that I "knew" what I would do. I said what I thought that I would probably do. Big difference.

true enough..

 

[Robittybob1]

That is one heck of a question isn't it? What would you do if Jesus did return? Even us so called Christians would be wondering if we were as good as we might imagined. We would have our trepidations, but I had always thought I would put my arm over his shoulder and give him a hug. OK my pastor at the time thought that was a bit odd, but that was how I felt.

OK I would put a good word in for you too Arioch, now that I've heard about you. I can't say he would change his mind, but I'll do my bit.

 

[aaqucnaona]

If He did come back, the first in hell will be the creationists.

Creationist - We believe in the literal truth of your word.

Jesus - You mean those stories that people wrote hundreds of years after my death?

Creationist - Oh, yes, they were the word of your father, revealed to those people.

Jesus - Revealed, you say? Hm.. Maybe he could have revealed my teachings and killed a lamb for redemption. Mightly difficult, you know, dying by being nailed and all.

Creationist - Thank you for dying for my sins.

Jesus - Dad knew about your sins and didnt prevent them? This is getting more and more suspicious.

Creationist - Um, Jesus, I know your mind is foggy from your return; but you are god, so technically, he isnt your father, he is your supernatural version.

Jesus - OMG, I mean, Oh me myself, I killed me?

Creationist - No sir, you were killed by those damn jews.

Jesus - What? I was killed by mere humans?

Creationist - No, it was the work of satan.

Jesus - So my dad/myself created satan knowing full well what he could do. Father and son is hardly what he thinks of you humans then. More like a cat playing with a mouse.

Creationist - Blasphmer, imposter, infidel! I will kill you.

Jesus - That's its! I have had it with you guys who are too stupid to realise the metaphorical wisdom in my books. Its hell for all evangalicals, fundamentalists and creationists who dont change their mind by the end of this month.

*Jesus calls Satan*

Satan - Hello, Jesus.

Jesus - Hi, Satan. I realised my dad made you to play a cruel game with man and I am ok with it.

Satan - *uncomfortable* Um, Ok...

Jesus - I now restore you to the level of a proper deity, albeit a evil one.

Satan - Thank you merciful lord. You do, indeed, save.

Jesus - You are too kind. Btw, do you still have moses down there?

Satan - Yes, he's doing 800 years in the lava pit with the dragons.

Jesus - You may want to throw in the spiky gargoyle with the whips and extend the punishment to 2000 years.

Satan - Why?

Jesus - He forgot my eleventh commandment:

Thou shall keep thy religion to thyself.

 

[Arioch]

@NM --

are you sure?

That is what Jesus said. I've known Christ(i.e. was a follower of Christ) and then I rejected him. If the bible is true then my place in hell is already decided.

i believe you would have a chance to repent, are you saying you would not repent even if jesus were to stand in front of you and ask you to repent?

Well then what you believe goes against at least some(but perhaps not all) of what Jesus taught. Again, odd positions for a christian to take considering just how unbiblical they are.

@Rob --

OK I would put a good word in for you too Arioch, now that I've heard about you. I can't say he would change his mind, but I'll do my bit.

You don't need to bother, I can't see any functional difference between heaven and hell anyways so going to either would likely be the same regardless of which one I go to. And since I really don't like your christian god, I think that I'd rather go to hell because he supposedly won't be there.