Jesus, the son of who?

same goes for Jesus, no matter what they say according to me IMHO that would be.

Anyway. Both xian and islam are aggresive religions and that has causes a lot of headake to a lot of people in a lot of years.

So that quote from the Quran sounds a bit strange in my ears. Maybe you could care to enligthen me?
 
flores

the christians have their problems, too, ya know. according to paul, there is the spirit of the anti-christ among the sheep, even since paul's time.
we arn't stupid.
 
Originally posted by Robban
So that quote from the Quran sounds a bit strange in my ears. Maybe you could care to enligthen me?
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I know you are referring to flores but what is it that you don't get. The quote is pretty simple. It tells its followers to leave other peoples' religion alone and focuse on your own. If one were to do this we would not have any problems with other people since we would not be trying to converge them.

anyway something that bothers me about the christian church is their prejudice against people from other religions. this summer I volunteered one week to help out at a vacation bible school. The first day this lady asked me if I went to their teen camp. I replied no then she turned to another lady and commented that her son was being such a xian after he came back from it. She said he did not want to be friends with non-xian people because that would influence him in a bad way. i dunno why i even volunteered, guess i like working with little kids but yeah... sorry this is out of the subject but personally i think it is worth mentioning.
 
Voltaire:

The meaning of the quote is quite obvious. The confusing part is that it is in the quran. Islam is a quite agressive expansionistic religion (as is xian) so it would be more understandable if the quote sayed plain out "Dont have your religion, have mine"
 
anyway something that bothers me about the christian church is their prejudice against people from other religions.
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Prejudice against people from other religions is not christian doctrin. The Quran does basically say that muslims cannot have close unbeliving friends. It kind of contradicts itself because muslim men can marry christians but I think the idea that marriage was friendship at that time was absurd.
 
The founders of Christine Doctrine would strongly disagree.
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No, not sure what you mean by "founders". If you mean someone like Martin Luther, then yes he was a bigot. However believing that your religion is the only true one and hating people of other religions is a long strech.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
No, not sure what you mean by "founders". If you mean someone like Martin Luther, then yes he was a bigot. However believing that your religion is the only true one and hating people of other religions is a long strech.
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I mean Justin Martyr, Tertullian, John Chrysostom, ...

I mean Persistent Antisemitic Canonical Law

I mean A Catholic Timeline...

Martin Luther was hardly the exception.
 
Originally posted by Robban
Voltaire:

The meaning of the quote is quite obvious. The confusing part is that it is in the quran. Islam is a quite agressive expansionistic religion (as is xian) so it would be more understandable if the quote sayed plain out "Dont have your religion, have mine"
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well, it is against their religion to force other people to convert into their religion. i am not making this up, i even asked my history proffesor if what i am saying is correct. islam is not an expansionistic religion, it is the people who follow it that are.
 
Originally posted by Robban
So that quote from the Quran sounds a bit strange in my ears. Maybe you could care to enligthen me?
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Sorry I was away for a couple of days, I usually don't write in evening or over weekends.

You asked about the Quranic quotes regarding the fact that the prophet is not in charge of anything but delivery of message. Here are some

The Counsel
[42.48] But if they turn aside, We have not sent you as a watcher over them; on you is only to deliver (the message); and surely when We make man taste mercy from Us, he rejoices thereat; and if an evil afflicts them on account of what their hands have already done, then-surely man is ungrateful.


The Family of Imran
[3.20] But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.

The Bee
[16.35] And they who give associates (to Allah) say: If Allah had pleased, we would not have served anything besides Allah, (neither) we nor our fathers, nor would we have prohibited anything without (order from) Him. Thus did those before them; is then aught incumbent upon the apostles except a plain delivery (of the message)?

The Cow
[2.272] To make them walk in the right way is not incumbent on you, but Allah guides aright whom He pleases

From the above, you can see that god clearly say that it's not the job of the prophet to set people in the path, also, It is clearly said over and over again that nothing is incumbent upon the prophet but plain delivery of the message (Quran). We are not supposed to follow in a prophet foot steps or mimic their lives or marry as many woman as a prophet does of use the same tooth brush as a prophet, or grow our beirds like a prophet, or wear ancient cloth with turbines like a prophet.

Also, very important, if you read the couseler and other verses, you will see that even the prophet can not do anything to anyone that choose to disbelieve in god, because people including prophets are not watchers over others, but only god judges. Of course, Bin Laden will disagree since he personally think that he is watcher over the entire universe and dictator of moral conduct and lifes of others.
 
Everyone here seems to know a lot about the bible and biblical history. Yet, you always feel the need to challenge each other's knowlege. Furthermore, it seems odd that some people that make athieistc comments are so knowlegeable on the subjects at hand in the first place.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
I believe most of the quotes that ConsequentAtheist gave were out of context.
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What, specifically, did I quote out of context, and where? Which of the canonical laws were out of context and why?
 
ConsequentAtheist vs. okinrus

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
What, specifically, did I quote out of context, and where? Which of the canonical laws were out of context and why?
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okinrus, although CA and I don't always see eye-to-eye, you definitely cannot match wits with him. It would do you good to read what he posts, because when he posts something other than his famous condescending barbs, the guy knows what he's talking about. I wish he'd share more of his knowledge with the rest of us.
 
What, specifically, did I quote out of context, and where? Which of the canonical laws were out of context and why?
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Ok take this site
http://www.shc.edu/theolibrary/resources/timeline.htm
I would need the exact context of each statement to determine any trace of anti-semetism. St. Jerome learned hebrew under Jewish Rabbis to translate the old testament. Look again at the quote by St. Augustine. My translation from <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/140612.htm">here</a> says,


11. Then God says to Cain: "Thou art cursed from the earth, which hath opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood at thy hand. For thou shalt till the earth, and it shall no longer yield unto thee its strength. A mourner and an abject shalt thou be on the earth." It is not, Cursed is the earth, but, Cursed art thou from the earth, which hath opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood at thy hand. So the unbelieving people of the Jews is cursed from the earth, that is, from the Church, which in the confession of sins has opened its mouth to receive the blood shed for the remission of sins by the hand of the people that would not be under grace, but under the law. And this murderer is cursed by the Church; that is, the Church admits and avows the curse pronounced by the apostle: "Whoever are of the works of the law are under the curse of the law.'' Then, after saying, Cursed art thou from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood at thy hand, what follows is not, For thou shalt till it, but, Thou shalt till the earth, and it shall not yield to thee its strength. The earth he is to till is not necessarily the same as that which opened its mouth to receive his brother's blood at his hand. From this earth he is cursed, and so he tills an earth which shall no longer yield to him its strength. That is, the Church admits and avows the Jewish people to be cursed, because after killing Christ they continue to till the ground of an earthly circumcision, an earthly Sabbath, an earthly passover, while the hidden strength or virtue of making known Christ, which this tilling contains, is not yielded to the Jews while they continue in impiety and unbelief, for it is revealed in the New Testament.


It's not anti-semetic. All agustine is saying is that Jews have a veil on them so that they cannot see the full glory of Christ while (referance the veil Moses wore) they are in unbelief and are following the Law for salvation.
 
good point, justathaught. people live in denial- like they fear being harnessed.
;) ( we'll just make it a little harder for them ).
THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN IS TO SERVE GOD.
 
fear of being harnessed or complex minds that find belief in such a transparent faith hard to accept? (christianity based off the bible that is)
 
atheroy: it's not the mind that worries me, but the spiritual force behind it.
and what is so complex about a spiritual kingdom, as opposed to a fleshly dominion of the 5 senses. god reserves the right to allow one retention of their 'little piece of turf' ( their own mind ).
this fleshly life still relates back to control- as god say's, 'tis is a spiritual war and not a war of the flesh...innoccence is a gift.
your point accepted, but only because the 'complex mind' is limited in it's own understanding. ( some complex minds can't change car tires. )
cheers
 
Originally posted by okinrus
I would need the exact context of each statement to determine any trace of anti-semetism.
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I noticed that you cowardly sidestep the question of Canonical law. No doubt you're incapable of recognizing them as "context".

Originally posted by okinrus
St. Jerome learned hebrew under Jewish Rabbis to translate the old testament.
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Therefore?
 
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