Jesus is the only way to salvation??

czaja said:
I was an atheist once-very evangelistic about it, too.
I had an open mind, I would have said.
It would have been a lie; my mind was closed to religion.
It still is, that is to organized religion.
But I am completely open to God, who is soooo amazing, I have found.
We think we are so smart, we think we should be God.
Pure arrogance.
J
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Why are you sooooooooooooooo sure ? Let me guess ! You hjave a personal relationship with god. Nothing new there !
 
greenberg said:
Similar could be said of some forms of theism -
Some theists are slaves to religious elitism. Religious elitism is limited by consensus. It would be a complete waste of a life to live it tied down to other people's views of what you see.

But again - who would be willing to stake eternity in hell on such a view?
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What if I told you believing in Jesus would send you to hell?

Would you be willing to state eternity in hell on such a view?
 
CheskiChips said:
I've read your link.

I've heard this argument before, it's really not based on anything. The way they decipher languages of nations is through pottery and engravings. Which were things Jews didn't do. Proto-Phoenician isn't much like Hebrew. The Dead Sea Scrolls dispute the language difference and also prove that the language was clearly in use during the time they discuss. How could it be that after leaving Egypt that they didn't all speak the same language?.
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So Hebrew was a term used by Jews regarding themselves? According to the same anthropologists, there is no record of Jews using the term Hebrew about themselves, rather it was a slur used against them by Egyptians and Assyrians [hapiru, 'apiru = labourers]. I find it interesting because of DNA research from Israel which shows that Israeli Jews are closer to Kurds, Turks and Armenians, rather than their Arab neighbors, which means at one time they must have travelled down to Egypt in some point of their history [since Turks came down much later and Kurds never did come to Palestine]

greenberg said:
Are you willing to risk eternity in hell for this stance that something was lost in translation?
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Fortunately as a Muslim, I have no such hassles. We don't have any exclusive routes for salvation. But if I were a Christian, I would do what I thought was best, no one can be expected to do more.
 
The year is 2008 and people are still talking about hell. Am I dreaming , or should that be having nightmares ?
 
S.A.M. said:
Fortunately as a Muslim, I have no such hassles.
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Lucky you, then. Were you born with "I am a Muslim" written on your forhead, or somehow "knew in your heart" that you are a Muslim and that this is who you really are?
 
S.A.M. said:
So Hebrew was a term used by Jews regarding themselves? According to the same anthropologists, there is no record of Jews using the term Hebrew about themselves, rather it was a slur used against them by Egyptians and Assyrians [hapiru, 'apiru = labourers]. I find it interesting because of DNA research from Israel which shows that Israeli Jews are closer to Kurds, Turks and Armenians, rather than their Arab neighbors, which means at one time they must have travelled down to Egypt in some point of their history [since Turks came down much later and Kurds never did come to Palestine]



Fortunately as a Muslim, I have no such hassles. We don't have any exclusive routes for salvation. But if I were a Christian, I would do what I thought was best, no one can be expected to do more.
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Hebrew is a secular time. The language is called simply Omaer Choidesh. Roughly 'Holy Language'. There is no "Hebrews"

Your DNA argument is tiresome...
If you really want to use it, then why do Jewish Kohens have a 90% chance of carrying the Kohen marker? Whereas the rest of the world isn't even close...
If genetics is a viable argument, then shouldn't a 90% commonality rate be a better more sound argument? Jews aren't arabs!!! Jews are persians!!! Jews aren't Canaanites!!! Jews are Jews! Arabs are arabs. Persians are Persians. Genetic similarities are interbreeding...of which Arabs were fine with...
 
CheskiChips said:
What if I told you believing in Jesus would send you to hell?

Would you be willing to state eternity in hell on such a view?
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I haven't thought of this.

It seems that no matter what one would do, there would always be someone who would say that one is doing wrong, will burn in hell for all eternity, or waste one's life.
 
CheskiChips said:
greenberg, if you actually read what I wrote you would realize I as proving 'No.'

His teachings were intended to fix Jewish law, but the book was as if he had no comprehension of the law. He came for Jews, not non-Jews (His claim not mine). His total lack of comprehension of the law proves that he was not a viable source. OR that the book its self was conscripted. It's been written that it was a propaganda book written by Roman scholars in order to incite nationalism.
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Hold on. When you say "book" here, do you mean the Bible?
 
greenberg said:
Lucky you, then. Were you born with "I am a Muslim" written on your forhead, or somehow "knew in your heart" that you are a Muslim and that this is who you really are?
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I was agnostic till my twenties, it really did not seem like a big deal to me to examine my beliefs at the time. I became interested in religion after moving to Saudi Arabia. I was lucky, I met some good religious sheikhs who pointed out some good sources for me to read. I like the religion, its logical and in concert with the way I think. I'm probably the only person in my family who is religious.
 
Jesus came to earth to remind us of who we are, and he came to 'save' us from the IDEA of death (because many people fear death). By waking up dead people and resurrecting, he showed us that death does not really exist, that it is just an idea, and we are eternal spiritual beings like him.
 
S.A.M. said:
Hmm, is that a dromedary? Considering Jesus' life goals, it would appear contradictory to his personal beliefs to lay down such conditions for salvation. After all, anyone willing to take on everyone else's suffering is hardly consonant with someone holding very high and mighty views of himself. This is more reflective of the philanthropists of today, who send teddy bears to make a statement about their beliefs and pat themselves on the back for their "achievements".
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Not it is not contradictory.

Jesus is the Grecco-Jewish version of the Life and Death and resurrection Deity which would also include the following other Man-Gods: Baal, Horus, Osiris, Amun, Amun-Min, Atunis, Adonis, Cronus, Cybele, Dionysus, Orpheus, Persephone, Attis, Mithras, Aeneas, Bacchus, Proserpina, Damuzi, Inanna ... etc...

If we were talking about Aeneas it would be plain to you and you would agree with me. But, Jesus appears in the Qur'an and so it's not possible for you to think logically about Jesus.

Isn't that interesting?

We could actually be sitting here comparing Baal and Osiris and talking about the commonality of these man-gods and you'd "get it" but because you are superstitious in regards to Jesus you can look at the OBVIOUS facts sitting in front of you and completely ignore them to fit Jesus into some half-cock Arab mythos that came many many centuries later.


So, in summary, Jesus was the Grecco-Jewish response to a VERY common religous theme in which YES the man-God (in this particular case Jesus) does DIE to save humanity from it's sin so that joe/jane-common can enter into heaven/afterlife/ not have to die.
 
S.A.M. said:
I was agnostic till my twenties, it really did not seem like a big deal to me to examine my beliefs at the time. I became interested in religion after moving to Saudi Arabia. I was lucky, I met some good religious sheikhs who pointed out some good sources for me to read. I like the religion, its logical and in concert with the way I think. I'm probably the only person in my family who is religious.
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I wonder, if, at this time in your life, you had instead moved to Hollywood - would you now be a LA only Scientologist?

Right now you'd be: I was lucky, I met some good Scientologists like Tm Cruise. I'm the only one in my family with the name Blinky-beta-5 :p
 
Michael said:
I wonder, if, at this time in your life, you had instead moved to Hollywood - would you now be a LA only Scientologist?

Right now you'd be: I was lucky, I met some good Scientologists like Tm Cruise. I'm the only one in my family with the name Blinky-beta-5 :p
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Somehow I don't believe I would see Tom Cruise as a mentor. But thats just me.
 
Why does everyone hate on Tom Cruise for his beliefs?

Yeah he acts strangely, but he's not harming anyone.

He helps people all around the world in whatever way he can, and promotes helping others.
He isn't really an idol worshipper like other religions...which is much worse.
 
I don't hate on Tom Cruise for his beliefs. I don't care about his beliefs.

I just consider him a complete arsehole for the shabby way he treated his wife.
 
dare I mention that the other two of the three abrahamic religions also feature a great deal of discriminatory exclusiveness? Including racism and persecution?


At least fanatical Christian's aren't allowed to burn people at the stake any more these days. :p

While I criticise all three said religions equally,
Now all we have to worry about is being beheaded or being called an anti-semite!
(while the former may seem considerably worse than the latter, the risk of the latter is considerably more likely) :D
 
CheskiChips said:
Why does everyone hate on Tom Cruise for his beliefs?

Yeah he acts strangely, but he's not harming anyone.

He helps people all around the world in whatever way he can, and promotes helping others.
He isn't really an idol worshipper like other religions...which is much worse.
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If you are wondering what all the criticism and protests are about,
I recommend you do some reading on the deaths and human rights abuses.
You can start with http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
those, and the "anti-psychiatry" conspiracy theories ingrained in the "religion".
They pretend to campaign for the rights of the mentally ill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_Rights
as a way of fooling vulnerable people into joining scientology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrVW4rdLXT8&feature=related

(To any of you scilons reading this and planning to "fair game" me,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)
just try it, i dare you.)
 
Huwy, I agree that scientology is a potentially dangerous cult. But no more dangerous than Christian scientists. They only hurt themselves (usually).
 
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