Jesus Christ is the Son of God

[Cris]

inspector,

Review some of my earlier posts, if you are sincerely interested.

Which ones? I don't remember any that were convincing.

Since this issue seems to be the route of our disagreements then at least a summary of those claims here would seem appropriate. If they are trully valid then aren't they worth repeating?

 

[Xev]

inspector:

No. The analogy is accurate, and, there are many more.

The analogy is inaccurate, as I showed.

Review some of my earlier posts, if you are sincerely interested.

Yes, it seems to be a "The world exists, therefore it must have been created, therefore God exists" and "I feel God in my heart, therefore God exists".

Both are poor arguments. The first assumes that the world needed to be created by God. However, modern science shows that the world operates perfectly well on natural laws.

As for the "feeling of God", I've never felt the presence of God. I have felt the presence of Cthulhu. Ergo, God exists not and Cthulhu does.

You should be able to see the logical flaw here. "Feeling" is no guarantee of truth.

Nice attempt at inflicting guilt.

Oh no, hell sounds really fun. All the nifty people like Friedrich Nietzsche, H.P Lovecraft, Carl Sagan and the Marquis de Sade will be there.

However, you are responsible for your own actions, and will be judged accordingly.

True, but I was teasing.

Of course, if you're not willing to debate, why go to a philosophy forum?

 

[whatsupyall]

To Wesmorris,

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

That is subjective interpretation. What if the concept of "design" really has no application besides to describe what a conscious energy does when manipulating systems. You're correct that it may SEEM however it does to you, but that does not make it so. It seems that you have a simplistic and presumptuous perspective.

To you red is black, but to me red is red, design is an ordered, complex, detailed, yet functioning and a working mechanism, if you call a design "chaos" or red as "black" or call God a "giant purple squid monkey", then go ahead, people are free to be stupid....

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

The billions aren't making up the lies, they're just buying into them and spreading them because they are weak and the strong manipulate them. Come to my house on Sunday. You give me money, I give you salvation. Wow.. that's mental crack.

LOL, there are many preachers who preach the gospel for free, and in fact some are fed by the lions and martyred for their act...There are those who gave up their riches, detached from family and friends, live a simple life, to follow the virtues which is very difficult (for our hearts are greedy), no money involved here, no pleasure either, and definitely no attention, SO WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT THIS KID?

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

That is an interesting proof you're referring to... I read it. Pretty cool, that guy had his shit together. I would say though that the entire argument is not applicable to the problem of religion or god. If you employe it as proof of god you are going from a to z without giving a shit if there is an alphabet to consider. It's poor investigation. You should try harder that selling out.

one of many evidence stupid, not proof, just another evidence....

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

People will die for that which they earnestly believe in, they will die for what protects their family, and they will die for what the strong tell them to, for they are sheep, like you whatsup. now, I can't tell you what to do, you've already been told and baby, you're holding onto it with a death grip. It's your salvation, it can't be false right? You hold on to that salvation, it will surely reap the wisdom you would rob from others with your ignorant rant.

We are taught to love our enemies, even if it means to sacrifice our lives, and there are few that are succesfull in following this virtue, we call them "saints". You are indeed right, people will die for what they believe in, there are those who will die to end racism...However, the cause must be genuine. YOU CANNOT GENERALIZE ALSO. There are those who died for right cause, and there are those who didnt... (At desperate times like the poverty stricken in middle east, where they will bomb themselve in a promiuse that their family are given sum amount of money and that they are told they will enter heaven)....

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

Okay, that's just not applicable. You show no evidence of being able to discern a lie.

Many, and I mean there are many atheists who would GENERALIZE, and accuse christians of being ignorant about science and philosophy when the truth is 99% of universities are founded by Christians (who are believers of God, NOT AN ATHEISTS) THATS MY POINT....

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

Again you go from A to Z and say "screw the alphabet, I'm super smart". To me, you don't look so smart.

Yup, and to some people red is black....

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

No, but a human mind or group thereof apparently can. By what do you gauge your claim of complexity? Because the pretty lights dazzle you? Don't you understand that while impressive to us, since we are us, humans are really barely conscious, depending on how you look at it? I mean, pretend there is some kind of omnipresent being, now, imagine what your pidly little brain does in comparison. Can you not see by your own claim you could not possible comprehend that which it is you propose to have direct evidence of? Why then would your "proof" hold any bearing on that which is so far superior to you? Is it that difficult to admit that you may not know that which is unknowable? Man, that's annoying. Think about it.

Thats not my fault if your blinded by reality, the reality that something very complex, detailed, yet ordered and functioning dont exist by strikes of lightning and earthquake by "LUCK" and CHING CHING!! A FUNCTIONING AND COMPLEX ORDERED AND DETAILED COMPUTER EXIST!! WOW! THE POWER OF LUCK! ....No no no, that dont happen, WAKE UP!

Originally posted by Wesmorris,

You have done nothing but make retarded claims. You have presented NO FACTS TO REFUTE.

See, this is where atheists stupidity comes in...

Fact....1.) Biological existence, intelligence caused conception, even cells have nucleus...Human conception, animals, etc...

Fact...2.) Technological existence, complex detailed yet ordered and functioning A DESIGN(but even universe and galaxies and stars is MUCH MORE OF A DESIGN, the purpose of blackhole, etc.)...

 

[Cris]

Inspector,

The non-locality of Bell's Theorem is based on an object that is not empirical in nature. However, the results of the object impinge on our physical world. The same can be said of God. God may not be directly empirical in nature, but the results of God impinge on our physical world, also.

OK I see your idea but the link with the god hypothesis doesn’t work. I reviewed the following article on Quantum Nonlocality, there were others but this seemed the most readable.

http://www.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/qm_nl.html

The nonlocality phenomenon is reproducible through empirical experiment and is apparently real. In effect the phenomenon exists but how it operates is not understood.

Your quote was “There are many things that exist that cannot be proven scientifically”.

I think in terms of proving the existence of something then science has proved the existence of quantum nonlocality. This in turn disproves your claim that the existence of something like this cannot be proven by science.

Understanding how something operates is another question. And regarding God; can the same thing be said about the existence of God without necessarily understanding how he operates? No I don’t think so.

Your error is in trying to claim that some of the effects of the universe are the result of actions by a god. That connection has not been made. The comparison between the quantum nonlocatity experiment is different because that effect is directly linked with the phenomenon. Not so for God.

While I will agree that God may not be directly empirical in nature the problem remains for you to show that such a non-empirical entity directly causes empirical effects. Hypothesizing that it does so does not make it true or even a possibility.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by matnay
Great post wesmorris.

Whatsupyall wrote:
Random chance cannot form computers, nor life

Then how do you suppose God was formed? Is he not "complex" enough to be considered worthy of a creator as well? Oh wait... I already know the standard response to this question......"umm... you see... God.. He...ummmm...always existed....YEA, that's it... He always existed. Therefore He doesn't need a creator." Well that's just the last desperate sound of a cop-out, the same thing as "umm... well....I have FAITH that He exists... and... so there".

But seriously, maybe you have a better answer than the one I usually hear. So I'll ask you. Shouldn't God need a creator as well?

IF GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE,
THEN WHO CREATED GOD?


Bob, a computer-engineer scientist engineered a 7-inch artificially intelligent robot, capable of judgment & learning independently. He also engineered a city made out of iron as big as a football stadium. The scientist can see the robot 200 feet above, but it can’t see him for its vision is limited to 20 feet. Years past, all the robot learned is machine stadium & self. The robot was skeptic & said, “Did someone engineered me or was I engineered by Luck (accident, chance, etc.)?” The scientist in hearing these spoke to the robot’s computer chip brain through a walkie-talkie & said “Mr. Bob engineered you my friend”, robot replied, “Well if Bob engineered me, who engineered Bob?” the scientist replied “Bob cannot be engineered. You don’t understand”, the robot then said, “Through my observation & study (science) Bob is either engineered or he doesn’t exist” Bob being aware of robot’s limited intellect said, “Bob is, he is who is. Bob cannot be engineered, Bob’s kingdom is not in your world.”

Dan painted a living imaginary girl. Dan placed the living painting on a picture frame in his garage surrounded by nothing else but paints, paint floor, roof, wall, etc. as an art exhibit. The only thing other than paints in his garage is the wood frame. The painting observed &studied what’s around her. She can see paints around her, thus she knows she came from paint. The farthest she can see is the wood frame, because its unreachable, she assume the wood is some sort of paint, for paint is all she knows. Years past, the painting was skeptic & said, “Did someone painted me or was I painted through Luck (accident, chance, etc.)?” Dan in hearing these spoke through the door crack & said “I painted you my friend”, painting replied “Well if you painted me, who painted you?” Dan replied, “I cannot be painted. Your world is not my world. You don’t understand,” the painting then said “Through my observation & study your either painted or you don’t exist” Dan knowing the painting is only exposed of paints but never of biology said to the painting “I just am as I am. I cannot be painted, my kingdom is not in your world.”

You see we believe only in existence of the tangible physical world. Through human observation & study, we are able to use the big bang theory, how life evolved, etc. This is human Biological understanding. The Big Bang, atom transformed into a cell, etc. whatever the theory is, that’s our understanding, God is beyond human understanding. We as a tangible physicality cannot relate to the spirit world, therefore we don’t understand God who is Spirit. That’s right u heard me, we cannot understand what we don’t relate to.
Even if the creator of the painting & robot revealed themselves to the creation, the robot & painting may hear it, but will not b able to relate to it. A robot brought out in the machine world was never exposed to the biological world, despite hearing it the robot will never relate to it, therefore the Robot will never understand it, that goes for the painting as well.

God revealed Himself to us to fit accordingly to our weak and transitory understanding. God is spirit. God is the Word became flesh, through the Word all came to be, & without the word nothing came to be (in other words through intelligence life existed), He is the light of the world, as everything existed through light, He is Word incarnate. Yahweh, Jehovah, Abba, etc. Can we understand God’s existence? Do we understand all this? Do we understand spirit? Were in the world of tangible physicality, we can never relate to Spirit, the existence of God; as a machine can never relate to the biological world.

So who created God the creator?

What kind of answer do u want? Physical products? Electrons protons/neutrons, amino acids, etc? Biological? Remember, God is Spirit- John. Spirit created tangible Physicality, God created the world. Why do u want physical understanding as an answer to the spirit? Should I give worldly understanding as an answer to the creator of the world? How can the worldly products create God who created the product of the world?

Alligator caused alligator bite marks. The foot caused footsteps. Engineers caused engineering, atheist caused atheism, designers caused designs, artist caused art, and Life giver caused life...

Can the existence of effect be used to explain the existence of the cause? How can you use the existence of a footprint (a mark on soil) as an explanation of the foot’s existence…nevertheless the body that holds the foot? How can u use a dog bite mark as an explanation of the dog’s creation? How can you use a creation as an explanation for the creator? I can state many analogies (maybe hundreds) that prove it’s impossible to use the creation as an explanation for its creator. For example, the existence and engineering creation of APPLE Mac computer cannot be used to explain the existence and biological creation of Bill Gates. Can you give one analogy that proves a creation can b used to explain its creator? Not at all!

What do I know about the creation of Spirit? Nothing! It’s like trying to physically prove to u what Ghost are made out of. Carbon monoxide? Hydrogen? These are all products of the world. I know God exist, but I don’t know how He exists.

Final answer is I cannot understand my creator. God may have a cause, but do I know what and how? Who can understand the mystery of God? Perhaps we may never find the answer to that question…Just because something can’t be explained, does it mean it’s a myth? So because u cannot explain what the black hole is, therefore black hole is a myth right? Or because u cannot explain how to cure cancer therefore cancer is a myth? I cannot explain homosexuals, so they r myth right? Is it visual? Because I cannot see oxygen therefore oxygen is a myth? Because I cannot see gas therefore gas is a myth? Because I cannot see gravity therefore gravity is a myth? I cannot see atom therefore atom is a myth? Because I cannot see what’s behind my wall, whatever is behind my wall is a myth? Because I cannot see 23 miles away from my city, therefore whatever is there is a myth? Is it taste & odor? Because I cannot see, feel, taste, smell the odorless tasteless poisonous gas, therefore it’s a myth? Because I cannot taste & smell the date rape drug, therefore it’s a myth? Because I cannot see, feel, taste, or smell your thoughts, therefore thoughts r myth? Because I cannot physically taste, or smell, or see your emotions, therefore emotions are myth? Because I have not seen, tasted, smelled, felt King Henry, Queen Elizabeth, Shakespeare, etc. therefore they r myth? So if you’re a dog, color blind, u would think color is a myth, but does the failure of your senses change facts? Is it about your 5 senses? I thought it’s about factual reality? If the 9 yrs old child have no idea how his father came into this world, does it mean his father is a myth? Do u feel me? I cannot explain child molesters, homosexuals, cancers, black hole, etc. & I cannot see or smell & taste atom, King Henry, Gas, Gravity, etc. & I don’t claim to understand God. But I know through solid logic factual evidence they all exist, Period.

My personal belief is that nothing Caused God for he is the causer and the creator cannot be created. (Don’t say I violate the principle of causality, I didn’t because through observation and study, that principle is applied to biological and technological existence, existence of the observed, not to the inaccessible “Spirit”, spirit ‘may’ have no need of cause but has always existed). I may have no scientific proof to believe that God is the truth, but neither does the atheist for claiming He is a liar, atheist people lied so many times because of that I have no reason to believe and put faith in both the immoral lawless atheism and atheists people.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by moonman
I'll have to hand it to whatsup. Considering some of the other stuff he's posted, this almost seems like an argument.
You are still closed-minded, stubborn, and judging, but maybe there is hope yet. As I see you have presented an actualy opinon, instead of 'Ofcourse god exists, DUH!'.

Here is how I see it all.
God is a theory, not a fact. Such as science is a thoery. The only difference is that one is based on experiments and calculations and the other is based in our past.
Here's a little simplified theory about god from a scientific point of view. God is a primal need that came with the evolution of knowledge for explanation of the world arround us. Once homosapiens learnt to use tools and harness fire, communicate, he nolonger needed to fear the world to survive, he was the master of all the animals he surveyed. With communication came stories, children listened attentively and excitedly to the hunters stories, who ofcourse embelished to gain status in the tribes. The greatest hunts were told over and over again by word of mouth through the generations, and for every storyteller the story evolved along with man. Stories were told to explain the mountains and the seas and the animals and the man. These stories became truths to primitive man, unquestioning children took them for their own.
As tribes competed for the land and animals, they fought each other. And as they grew, the wise shaman realized that he could maintain controll and have the people do his bidding, if he claimed to be able to speak to the gods and so bring rain to the plains.
Somewhere here the tribes started joining eachother and shure enough civilization was formed as man learnt more and more about his world. But the stories remained as the unquestionable explenations for the world, they only changed to suit what was learned. And those very shaman remained as the leaders, and became greedy with the power that they controlled.
The christian God is no different from Allah or Buddha they all have books which are no more or less credible than the bible.
Christianity had the luck to spread quickly at a very fragile moment in history, the fall of the roman empire.

This is my explenation for god, the explenation of thw world changes everyday, we are yet to discover it, but to do so we must let go of the old stories and look at the facts. (Then again there seems to be a bit of a disagreement about what should be considered as a fact.)

Today, the idea is that the universe and we are just one big random happening, the 'order' is created by the opposite forces within matter attracting and detering each other.

Every theory must have convincing ideas, stories, and imaginations to back it up, like the one above you posted, thats why atheists exist...(sadly)

there is a God and I know that for a fact (for I have experienced Him) but since you havent, then u dont believe...But anyways, since God exist and He created the nature and design of the world, WHY WOULD HE IGNORE THEM AND NOT GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO NOTICE HIM? WHY WOULD YOU CREATE SOMETHING AND WOULD WANT THAT SOMETHING NOT TO NOTICE YOU? EXPECIALLY AN INTELLIGENT CREATURES...WHEN YOU DESIGN AN ARTWORK, YOU DID IT EITHER FOR ATTENTION, OR PRIZE MONEY (AS REALITY STATES)...We are created in the image of God, God created us for His purpose, thats why cavemans or natives notice that they have a creator, they didnt "think they might" but they KNOW THEY HAVE A CREATOR....
Now a kid may have narrow understanding to his parents when he is only 5, because his mind havent matured yet "AS THE KINGDOM OF GOD CAN BE LIKENED TO A MUSTARD SEED, IT STARTS SMALL BUT WHEN MATURES, IT IS SO HUGE THAT BIRDS OF THE AIR DWELL ON IT"..."MYSTERIES HIDDEN FOR GENERATIONS NOW REVEALED"- ST.PAUL...
Thats how life is designed by God, HE MAKES ALL THINGS BEAUTIFULL IN HIS TIME..
yes the natives have narrow understanding, their brain didnt mature yet, but a time will come when their recognition of their creator will profit them, and I can see that now........

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
I may have no scientific proof to believe that God is the truth...

Finally got around to admitting the obvious.

...but neither does the atheist for claiming He is a liar, atheist people lied so many times

By providing hard evidence? Just because it conflicts with your beliefs doesn't made the messenger a liar.

because of that I have no reason to believe and put faith in both the immoral lawless atheism and atheists people.

Atheism doesn't require faith, it is simply failed theism, for some of us need more than a book and blind hope. It's been said before, an atheist would become religious in a minute if they were presented with the appropriate proof to convince them of some higher power. Until then, what do you expect us to do, pretend to believe? Is that what's called faith?

 

[antichrist=peace]

according to bible jesus is not son of god

Jesus said about the devil:”there is no truth in devil and the devil utters nothing but lies” hearing this the devils shouted and said to jesus “you are the son of god” (mark 3:11)

In john 4.16 jesus says “for god so loved the world so much that he gave his only son” and Jesus said in matthew 5.9 “peacemakers will be called sons of god” And the same jesus says in matthew 10:34 “I came NOT to bring PEACE but SWORD/WAR.”

jesus says ‘judge a branch by the fruit it bears‘ and see what happened to jesus' so-called apostles they all got killed one by one! SO now kill jesus before he kills you!

 

[moonman]

whatsupyall.
Question.
Why should I believe in Christ more than Allah or Buddha. Infact I'm quite a fan of Buddhism? All religions have a concept on the creation of the universe, to the followers they are just as real as to anyone else. The only difference is that the West, and christianity has had a profound effect on all countrys.
If the buddhists had been as aggressive as the chirsitians in their campaning, in the 15th century they could have marched in armys the size of european cities. We would all be Buddhists, this isn't part of my argument, I'm just saying.

I want nothing else that to see the truth, if I somehow experience God(and know/feel it to be true) during my search I won't deny him, If I am filled with Buddhas compassion and observe his truth, I won't deny him. If Allah comes shining down on me, I won't deny him.
BUT I will NOT let anyone tell me what to think and believe, there is no book in the world which can tell me the truth. The truth is not within a book, but within ourselves.
My message is that people should be free from the books and free to discover the truth for themselves.
NO ONE CAN TELL YOU WHAT TRUTH IS, YOU MUST FIND IT FOR YOURSELF.

The Bible tells us what to do and what to think. I don't like being told what to do and what to think. My purpouse is not to deny god, when I argue against the bible I am simply stating it's lack of credibility why people should not let it govern their lives. People should govern their own lives and share love and kindness upon the earth without the fear of the consequence of not doing so. Yes people are greedy, people are cruel, people are ignorant such is the nature of man. What can the individual do about it? Help people be free from themselves, their doubts and anxietys, and eventualy all will be love.

 

[The Marquis]

It's apparent to me that whatsupyall is one of the best arguments for atheism in existence.

 

[wesmorris]

Someone else I thought referred to him as the typhoid mary of the christianity meme. Hehe... not quite true but kind of funny nonetheless.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
IF GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE,
THEN WHO CREATED GOD?


Bob, a computer-engineer scientist engineered a 7-inch artificially intelligent robot, capable of judgment & learning independently. He also engineered a city made out of iron as big as a football stadium. The scientist can see the robot 200 feet above, but it can’t see him for its vision is limited to 20 feet. Years past, all the robot learned is machine stadium and itself. The robot was skepticall and said, “Did someone engineered me or was I engineered by Luck (accident, chance, etc.)?” The scientist in hearing these spoke to the robot’s computer chip brain through a walkie-talkie & said “Mr. Bob engineered you my friend”, robot replied, “Well if Bob engineered me, who engineered Bob?” the scientist replied “Bob cannot be engineered. You don’t understand”, the robot then said, “Through my observation and study (science) Bob is either engineered or he doesn’t exist” Bob being aware of robot’s limited intellect said, “Bob is, he is who is. Bob cannot be engineered, Bob’s kingdom is not in your world.”

Dan painted a living imaginary girl. Dan placed the living painting on a picture frame in his garage surrounded by nothing else but paints, paint floor, roof, wall, etc. as an art exhibit. The only thing other than paints in his garage is the wood frame. The painting observed and studied what’s around her. She can see paints around her, thus she knows she came from paint. The farthest she can see is the wood frame, because its unreachable, she assume the wood is some sort of paint, for paint is all she knows. Years past, the painting was skeptic and said, “Did someone painted me or was I painted through Luck (accident, chance, etc.)?” Dan in hearing these spoke through the door crack & said “I painted you my friend”, painting replied “Well if you painted me, who painted you?” Dan replied, “I cannot be painted. Your world is not my world. You don’t understand,” the painting then said “Through my observation & study your either painted or you don’t exist” Dan knowing the painting is only exposed of paints but never of biology said to the painting “I just am as I am. I cannot be painted, my kingdom is not in your world.”

You see we believe only in existence of the tangible physical world. Through human observation and study, we are able to use the big bang theory, how life evolved, etc. This is human Biological understanding. The Big Bang, atom transformed into a cell, etc. whatever the theory is, that’s our understanding, God is beyond human understanding. We as a tangible physicality cannot relate to the spirit world, therefore we don’t understand God who is Spirit. That’s right you heard me, we cannot understand what we don’t relate to.
Even if the creator of the painting & robot revealed themselves to the creation, the robot & painting may hear it, but will not b able to relate to it. A robot brought out in the machine world was never exposed to the biological world, despite hearing it the robot will never relate to it, therefore the Robot will never understand it, that goes for the painting as well.

God revealed Himself to us to fit accordingly to our weak and transitory understanding. God is spirit. God is the Word became flesh, through the Word all came to be, & without the word nothing came to be (in other words through intelligence life existed), He is the light of the world, as everything existed through light, He is Word incarnate. Yahweh, Jehovah, Abba, etc. Can we understand God’s existence? Do we understand all this? Do we understand spirit? Were in the world of tangible physicality, we can never relate to Spirit, the existence of God; as a machine can never relate to the biological world.

So who created God the creator?

What kind of answer do you want? Physical products? Electrons protons/neutrons, amino acids, etc? Biological? Remember, God is Spirit- John. Spirit created tangible Physicality, God created the world. Why do you want physical understanding as an answer to the spirit? Should I give worldly understanding as an answer to the creator of the world? How can the worldly products create God who created the product of the world?

Alligator caused alligator bite marks. The foot caused footsteps. Engineers caused engineering, atheist caused atheism, designers caused designs, artist caused art, and Life giver caused life...

Can the existence of effect be used to explain the existence of the cause? How can you use the existence of a footprint (a mark on soil) as an explanation of the foot’s existence…nevertheless the body that holds the foot? How can you use a dog bite mark as an explanation of the dog’s creation? How can you use a creation as an explanation for the creator? I can state many analogies (maybe hundreds) that prove it’s impossible to use the creation as an explanation for its creator. For example, the existence and engineering creation of APPLE Mac computer cannot be used to explain the existence and biological creation of Bill Gates. Can you give one analogy that proves a creation can be used to explain its creator? Not at all!

What do I know about the creation of Spirit? Nothing! It’s like trying to physically prove to you what Ghost are made out of. Carbon monoxide? Hydrogen? These are all products of the world. I know God exist, but I don’t know how He exists.

Final answer is I cannot understand my creator. God may have a cause, but do I know what and how? Who can understand the mystery of God? Perhaps we may never find the answer to that question…Just because something can’t be explained, does it mean it’s a myth? So because u cannot explain what the black hole is, therefore black hole is a myth right? Or because you cannot explain how to cure cancer therefore cancer is a myth? I cannot explain homosexuals, so they r myth right? Is it visual? Because I cannot see oxygen therefore oxygen is a myth? Because I cannot see gas therefore gas is a myth? Because I cannot see gravity therefore gravity is a myth? I cannot see atom therefore atom is a myth? Because I cannot see what’s behind my wall, whatever is behind my wall is a myth? Because I cannot see 23 miles away from my city, therefore whatever is there is a myth? Is it taste you odor? Because I cannot see, feel, taste, smell the odorless tasteless poisonous gas, therefore it’s a myth? Because I cannot taste or smell the date rape drug, therefore it’s a myth? Because I cannot see, feel, taste, or smell your thoughts, therefore thoughts are myth? Because I cannot physically taste, or smell, or see your emotions, therefore emotions are myth? Because I have not seen, tasted, smelled, felt King Henry, Queen Elizabeth, Shakespeare, etc. therefore they r myth? So if you’re a dog, color blind, you would think color is a myth, but does the failure of your senses change facts? Is it about your 5 senses? I thought it’s about factual reality? If the 9 yrs old child have no idea how his father came into this world, does it mean his father is a myth? Do you feel me? I cannot explain child molesters, homosexuals, cancers, black hole, etc. and I cannot see or smell or taste atom, King Henry, Gas, Gravity, etc. I don’t claim to understand God. But I know through solid logic factual evidence they all exist, Period.

My personal belief is that nothing Caused God for he is the causer and the creator cannot be created. (Don’t say I violate the principle of causality, I didn’t because through observation and study, that principle is applied to biological and technological existence, existence of the observed, not to the inaccessible “Spirit”, spirit ‘may’ have no need of cause but has always existed). I may have no scientific proof to believe that God is the truth, but neither does the atheist for claiming He is a liar, atheist people lied so many times because of that I have no reason to believe and put faith in both the immoral lawless atheism and atheists people.

Every theory must have convincing ideas, stories, and imaginations to back it up, like the one above you posted, and that is the reason I believe atheism to exist.

There is a God and I know that for a fact (for I have experienced Him) but since you haven't, then you don't believe...But anyways, since God exist and He created the nature and design of the world, WHY WOULD HE IGNORE THEM AND NOT GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO NOTICE HIM? WHY WOULD YOU CREATE SOMETHING AND WOULD WANT THAT SOMETHING NOT TO NOTICE YOU? EXPECIALLY AN INTELLIGENT CREATURES...WHEN YOU DESIGN AN ARTWORK, YOU DID IT EITHER FOR ATTENTION, OR PRIZE MONEY (AS REALITY STATES)...We are created in the image of God, God created us for His purpose, that's why cavemen or natives notice that they have a creator, they didn't "think they might" but they KNOW THEY HAVE A CREATOR....
Now a kid may have narrow understanding to his parents when he is only 5, because his mind has not matured yet "AS THE KINGDOM OF GOD CAN BE LIKENED TO A MUSTARD SEED, IT STARTS SMALL BUT WHEN MATURES, IT IS SO HUGE THAT BIRDS OF THE AIR DWELL ON IT"..."MYSTERIES HIDDEN FOR GENERATIONS NOW REVEALED"- ST.PAUL...
Thats how life is designed by God, HE MAKES ALL THINGS BEAUTIFUL IN HIS TIME..
Yes, the natives have narrow understanding, their brain didn't mature yet, but a time will come when their recognition of their creator will profit them, and I can see that now........

Whoa, I didn't have to edit out any outbursts there...keep up the good work whatsupyall!

 

[Zero]

One bone to pick, though. Why would you consider the natives to be primitive? What aspect of their beliefs, culture, or lives lead you to the conclusion that they are primitive and therefore inferior to us?

Two bones, actually. If the robot couldn't gather any useful data about the world outside its accessible domain despite anything it does, then the outside world is irrelevant as long as it does not interact with the robot. The robot would be better off studying its own world. The outside world is off limits to it, therefore it can't know anything about it nor can it do a thing about it.

 

[(Q)]

whatswhat

We are created in the image of God, God created us for His purpose

I just had a horrible vision of Earths entire populace comprised of people like whatsupyall.

I need a stiff drink.

 

[Xelios]

I may have no scientific proof to believe that God is the truth, but neither does the atheist for claiming He is a liar,

omg FINALLY! It only took you what? 3 months to realize you have no proof of God? I was beginning to think this day would never come..

Just because something can’t be explained, does it mean it’s a myth?

Thank you, just because we can't explain how life started doesn't mean macro evolution is a myth.

My personal belief is that nothing Caused God for he is the causer and the creator cannot be created

Fair enough, my personal belief is that nothing caused the universe, as before the universe existed time did not exist either. To ask what came 'before' the universe, or what 'caused' the universe is meaningless as those terms can't be applied.

atheist people lied so many times because of that I have no reason to believe and put faith in both the immoral lawless atheism and atheists people.

Just curious whatsup, where have atheists lied?

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios
omg FINALLY! It only took you what? 3 months to realize you have no proof of God? I was beginning to think this day would never come..

LOL, you didnt get what Im saying (as always). I have no SCIENTIFIC proof that God is telling the truth...AT CERTAIN ASPECTS, SCIENCE CANNOT BE APPLIED TO SINCERITY AND HONESTY. You can also say "How do I know shakespeare is really a writer? How do I know those books are really written by him?"
But if we are talking about God's existence, once again, IT IS PROVEN GOD EXIST, PROVEN AS MUCH AS SHAKESPEARE'S EXISTENCE, AND OCCURENCE OF EVOLUTION....Is the occurence of evolution scientifically proven? Then the existence of God is scientifically proven as well. Is shakespeare a myth? Then God is a myth as well, BOTH HAVE TONS OF EVIDENCE AND ARE PROVEN TO EXIST, BUT PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO STUPIDITY AND DENY THEIR EXISTENCE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE......

 

[Xelios]

LOL, you didnt get what Im saying (as always). I have no SCIENTIFIC proof that God is telling the truth...

'Proof' and 'evidence' are both attributes of science whatsup. You can't prove something using feelings or opinions. You have to prove them using observations, experiments, logic, reasoning and reproducible evidence, all properties inherent to science.

AT CERTAIN ASPECTS, SCIENCE CANNOT BE APPLIED TO SINCERITY AND HONESTY. You can also say "How do I know shakespeare is really a writer? How do I know those books are really written by him?"

We can't scientifically prove they were. So what? In the same way you can't prove God exists.

But if we are talking about God's existence, once again, IT IS PROVEN GOD EXIST, PROVEN AS MUCH AS SHAKESPEARE'S EXISTENCE, AND OCCURENCE OF EVOLUTION....

Right, Shakespeare's existance is not proven, neither is God's. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Is the occurence of evolution scientifically proven? Then the existence of God is scientifically proven as well.

This is very faulty logic whatsup. Micro Evolution has been proven using logic, experiments, observations and reproducible results. God has not been proven using any of these things. Unless you can point me to scientific experiments that prove God's existance.

Is shakespeare a myth?

Personally I don't think so, but it's possible.

BOTH HAVE TONS OF EVIDENCE AND ARE PROVEN TO EXIST

? You just said Shakespeare has no evidence of his existance, now suddenly he does?

BUT PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO STUPIDITY AND DENY THEIR EXISTENCE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE......

Yes, and it seems people are still entitiled to pretend logic and reasoning don't apply to them, or that they can make up their own support for their claims and then call it proof.

Whatever happened to my question whatsup? Where have atheists lied?

 

[Markx]

Son of God is a figure of speech which many other Prophets were labeled as for example; in the King James Version of the Bible. So why only Jesus was the only Son Of God? Let's see,




(Psalms 2:7) David is the begotten Son of God.


Many others in the Bible are called God's son;


Jacob God's firstborn son (Exodus 4:22)
Solomon is God's son (2 Samuel 7:13-14)
Ephraim is God's firstborn son (Jeremiah 31:9)
Adam is the son of God (Luke 3:38)


Other Prophets were Labeled as Messiah for example {1 Samuel 15:17} Which in Hebrew means Anointed/Chosen/Prophet;


Solomon (1 Kings 1:39)
David (1 Samuel 16:13)
Jewish priests (Leviticus 4)


Other Prophets Preformed similar Miracles as Jesus ;


Ezekiel raised many from the dead (Ezekiel 37:1-9)
Joshua stopped the sun and moon for one whole day (Joshua 10:12-13)
Elisha raised the dead, resurrected himself, healed a leper, fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn, and healed a blind man: (2 Kings 4:35, 13:21, 5:14, 4:44, and 6:11.)
Elijah raised the dead (1 Kings 17:22 and 14.)


Other Prophets were filled with the Holy Ghost;


Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:67)
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:41)
Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 4:8)
Paul, filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 13:9)


Many other Prophets were called Lord for example;


Abraham (Genesis 18:12)
Esau (Genesis 32:4)
Joseph (Genesis 44:20)
David (1 Samuel 25:24)


So why do I believe that only Jesus was god? Why not all the above prophets are god too. Now, you will say that he rose from dead. So, there were no eye witnesses, it says in the bible that they left him in the time when he needed them most. ( his 12-13 closest apostles).


Peace

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
LOL, you didnt get what Im saying (as always). I have no SCIENTIFIC proof that God is telling the truth...AT CERTAIN ASPECTS, SCIENCE CANNOT BE APPLIED TO SINCERITY AND HONESTY. You can also say "How do I know shakespeare is really a writer? How do I know those books are really written by him?"
But if we are talking about God's existence, once again, IT IS PROVEN GOD EXIST, PROVEN AS MUCH AS SHAKESPEARE'S EXISTENCE, AND OCCURENCE OF EVOLUTION....Is the occurence of evolution scientifically proven? Then the existence of God is scientifically proven as well. Is shakespeare a myth? Then God is a myth as well, BOTH HAVE TONS OF EVIDENCE AND ARE PROVEN TO EXIST, BUT PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO STUPIDITY AND DENY THEIR EXISTENCE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE......

There is no logical connection here. Evolution has the fossil record, genetics, and observations to back it up. the existence of your god has none.

 

[notme2000]

I think his problem is that he's never seen any of it, so it's not proof to him. According to him he's "seen" God. But he's never seen a fossil or physics equation first hand. Someone should take him to a museum or science lab and help him catch up with the times.