Jesus Christ is the Son of God

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Jaxom

Actually, if you compare ID and abiogenesis, there's little difference - life either arose from a creator, or by itself though chemistry.

Originally posted by Jaxom

We've shown chemistry can come close...what can be shown on the ID side, other than the standard "life exists therefore..." argument?

"WE'VE SHOWN CHEMISTRY CAN COME CLOSE?" WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "WE'VE"? SCIENTISTS? HOW? BY USING THEIR "INTELLIGENCE"? INTELLIGENT DESIGN? BY PROVING THAT THEY CAME CLOSE TO CREATING LIFE OR CREATING "LIFE LIKE THINGS", THAT ONLY PROVES THE INTELLIGENT CAUSE OF COMPLEX, DTEAILED YET FUNCTIONING MATTERS.
USING AN INTELLIGENT CAUSE DOESNT PROVE "LUCK" BUT IT PROVES INTELLIGENT CAUSE.......1+1=2, NOT 3! GOT IT? OR DO YOU NEED MORE EXPLANATION?

(THE ONLY WAY SATAN (SPIRIT OF LIES) CAN REFUTE THIS IS TO SAY THE WORD "BEETLEJUICE!" OH WAIT, MY BAD, I MEAN SAY THE WORD "GIANT PURPLE SQUID MONKEY!" THEN IDIOTS WILL FALL FOR THIS STUPIDITY........I FELT SORRY FOR FORMER BELIEVERS BUT BECAME ATHEISTS, SMITTEN BY IGNORANCE AND LIES......)

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios
You shouldn't be, you're the one who brought it up in the first place.

??? This is called "ranting and rambling".....

Originally posted by Xelios

Hmm, so you're saying if I got some testimonial evidence of this squid monkey he would have the same validity as God? I'm sure I can convince a few people to testify that a purple squid monkey with supernatural powers exists..

YOU THINK YOU CAN CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT GIANT PURPLE SQUIDMONKEY IS GOD? WELL THEN, PROVE IT, CONVINCE ATLEAST 1,000, AND LET THEM BE MARTYRED AND LOOSE THIER LIFE FOR IT (BE FED BY LIONS OR CRUCIFIED FOR MAKING SUCH COMMENT)...LET THEM GIVE UP ALL THEIR POSSESIONS, AND LIVE A SIMPLE LIFE...LET THEM FAST, LET THEM LOVE THEIR ENEMIES AND FORGIVE THEM...LET THEM PRAY AT ALL TIMES..LET THEM BE CHASTITY....IF OUT OF THAT 1,0900, IF 12 CAN COME FORWARD AND SAY "I SAW THE GIANT PURPLE SQUID MONKEY!" THEN SAY TO THEM "ARE YOU SURE? TELL ME THAT IT DONT EXIST, IF YOU INSIST I WILL FEED YOU TO THE LIONS!" IF THEY STILL HANG ON AND SAID "I SAW IT IN MY OWN EYES! AND IF U WANT TO KILL ME FOR TELLING U THE TRUTH, THEN GO AHEAD".....IF THIS HAPPENED, THEN I WILL BE CONVINCED.......IF YOU CAN CONVINCE 1,000 PEOPLE TO DO THESE IN THE NAME OF GIANT PURPLE SQUID MONKEY, THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU......UNTIL THEN, SHUT YOUR MOUTH...YOU RANT AND RAMBLE BUT GIVE NO EVIDENCE BEHIND THE CLAIM......

Originally posted by Xelios

and I would appreciate it if you would stick to the arguements at hand rather than trying to avoid the questions with useless babble..

WHAT ARE THESE QUESTIONS THAT IM AVOIDING? ARE YOU FALSELY ACCUSING ME?

Originally posted by Xelios

There doesn't have to be. The big bang theory was formed to coincide with what we observe, not the other way around. It doesn't matter what a big bang looks like, the fact is the evidence of it is here, and we mold the theory to fit it. ..

YOU USE OUR EXISTENCE AS AN EVIDENCE FOR BIG BANG? SO THEN YOU "BELIEVE" IN BIG BANG WITH THAT EVIDENCE? LOL, SO WHY DONT YOU BELIEVE IN AN INTELLIGENT CAUSE THEN? IN THE REAL WORLD, COMPLEX, DETAILED, YET FUNCTIONING MATTERS EXIST BY "INTELLIGENT CAUSE"...ARE YOU LIVING IN THE REAL WORLD?

Originally posted by Xelios

Okay, let me clarify that. Neither have been proven yet. ..

LOL, YOU ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG....THANK YOU, I KNOW YOUR WRONG FOR MAKING THAT COMMENT (SATAN IS THE FATHER OF LIES, WHISPERING LIES TO THE MIND AND HEARTS OF MAN)..
NO, FOR GOD TO EXIST IS PROVEN AMONG THOSE WHO EXPERIENCED HIM...AND IT IS FOR YOU TO HAVE FAITH AND BELIEVE IN HIS EXISTENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED HIM...DO YOU SAY "HE DONT EXIST"? THEN THAT IS NOTHING BUT ANOTHER CLAIM WITHOUT EVIDENCE AT ALL, FOR YOU CANNOT PROVE GOD DONT EXIST.......

"Thomas blessed are you for you have seen, but even more blessed are those who have not seen yet believed"- Jesus......

Those who experienced God are blessed, but even more blessed are those who have not experienced God, but still believed.....

Originally posted by Xelios

Nope. I am proposing that the concept of intelligence does not require something intelligent to create it. ..

THEN YOUR HALLUCINATING...IN THE REAL WORLD, INTELLIGENCE ARE CAUSED BY INTELLIGENCE, FROM BIOLOGICAL EXISTENCE, TO TECHNOLOGICAL EXISTENCE..

TELL ME ONE INTELLIGENT CREATURE THAT EXIST NOT BECAUSE OF INTELLIGENCE.....TELL ME ONE CREATURE WHOS GOT PARENTS THAT HAVE NO INTELLIGENCE........TELL ME CHILD, IM WAITING.....(I BET YOU WILL SKIP THIS PART)...

Originally posted by Xelios


Likewise, once macro evolution is proven I could say to you that all living things evolve, then to prove it wrong you would have to show me a living thing that never has and never will evolve.

YOUR RIGHT, THATS WHY I AGREE WITH EVOLUTION.....

Originally posted by Xelios

Exactly, so in the end it just comes down to personal opinion. It is your opinion that they were cured by weeping statues, an opinion I do not share.

OPINION IS ONE THING, FACT IS ANOTHER THING...I KNOW FOR A FACT GOD EXIST.....MY FAITH IS THAT GOD EXIST FOR A FACT...WHY? BECAUSE I HAAVE EXPERIENCED HIM, MANY HAVE....SO TO YOU GOD IS AN OPINION, A THEORY, OR A MYTH......BUT TO US WHO EXPERIENCED HIM, HE IS A FACT......

Originally posted by Xelios

That's not the only way at all. Many will think they were cured by God, when in fact they were cured either through medicine or their immune system. If I get a cold, and I ask my computer monitor to cure me, and two days later my cold is gone I may believe it was my computer monitor's doing. Obviously it wasn't, but how could you tell? They believe it was God who healed them, so they aren't lying, but they may be misinformed.

YOUR WRONG ONCE AGAIN.....WHEN SOMEONE HAVE INCURABLE CANCER (INCURABLE BY SCIENCE) AND HE WAS CURED BY HIS PRAYERS, THAT PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.....

Originally posted by Xelios

Common sense also tells me that the Earth is more than a couple thousand years old, tell that to tony1.

YOUR RIGHT, SOME DOESNT HAVE COMMON SENSE, BUT ARE BRAINWASHED TO THE MAX..LIKE SOME PEEPS I ENCOUNTERED HERE, LOSING THEIR JUDGMENT, NOT KNOWING WHAT THE WORD "KNOWING" MEANS (CRIS, FRENCHY, ETC.) I AINT LIKE TONY1, HE NEEDS REALITY CHECK SOMETIMES.......

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by matnay
Whatsupyall,
-and are almost always the most logical conclusions. How would you explain how far science has taken us already if the science was so faulty? Are you even aware that man has landed on the moon?

AND??? WHATS YOUR POINT??? I AM AWARE THAT OUR INTELLIGENCE HAVE CAME TO THE POINT OF INVENTING THINGS, SO WHATS YOUR POINT??? IS THAT YOUR PROOF GOD DONT EXIST? SO GOD DONT EXIST BECAUSE WE CREATED AIRPLANES?? , WITH THAT COMMENT, I SEE IT DIFFERENTLY...SUCH COMMENT PROVES THAT HUMAN PRIDE IS THE CAUSE OF ATHEISM, BECOMING THEIR OWN GODS....

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

when someone have incurable cancer (incurable by science) and he was cured by his prayers, that proves the existence of god.....

No it doesn’t. Cancers sometimes disappear through spontaneous remission, we don’t know why. Prayers can also produce a positive mental attitude and feelings of optimism and hope. Psychologists have known for a long time that such attitudes can have profound effects on health.

That a god might be involved is just speculation. It isn’t a proof. For a proof you need to irrefutably link the alleged cause with the effect and show that no other explanations are credible.

 

[Cris]

whatsup,

opinion is one thing, fact is another thing...i know for a fact god exist.....my faith is that god exist for a fact...why? because i haave experienced him, many have....so to you god is an opinion, a theory, or a myth......but to us who experienced him, he is a fact......

Without independent evidence your claim of a fact through personal experience is indistinguishable to self created delusion. Given the otherwise unproven fantastic claims of the supernatural and given the well understood and widespread knowledge of delusional psychoses, it simply seems significantly more credible that you are merely suffering from a psychotic delusion.

How do you know you aren’t delusional?

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
BY PROVING THAT THEY CAME CLOSE TO CREATING LIFE OR CREATING "LIFE LIKE THINGS", THAT ONLY PROVES THE INTELLIGENT CAUSE OF COMPLEX, DTEAILED YET FUNCTIONING MATTERS.
USING AN INTELLIGENT CAUSE DOESNT PROVE "LUCK" BUT IT PROVES INTELLIGENT CAUSE.......1+1=2, NOT 3!

This is misleading. Just because a process can be duplicated by intelligence, does not make the intelligence necessary for that process to occur. If scientists throw together a mix that simulates early earth conditions, and prelife hydrocarbons form, this does not prove abiogenesis, but it does show that there can be a build up of complexity in nature, without any intelligence present, and despite the creationists' misunderstanding of the second law of thermodynamics. And given the time and amount of chemical interaction, the probability of all this happening is as likely as the sun is to rise tomorrow.

 

[Xelios]

??? This is called "ranting and rambling".....

lol, how so?

YOU USE OUR EXISTENCE AS AN EVIDENCE FOR BIG BANG?

No MM, at least try to understand what I'm saying. We see evidence of a Big Bang today, and we based our theory on that evidence. Simple as that.

NO, FOR GOD TO EXIST IS PROVEN AMONG THOSE WHO EXPERIENCED HIM

To those who have experienced a magic show a mysterious force called 'magic' is real, it is proven to them to exist. However once they learn magic is really just a series of optical illusions and carefully planned tricks, they realize they were wrong. Who says Christianity is not the same way?

TELL ME ONE INTELLIGENT CREATURE THAT EXIST NOT BECAUSE OF INTELLIGENCE.....TELL ME ONE CREATURE WHOS GOT PARENTS THAT HAVE NO INTELLIGENCE........TELL ME CHILD, IM WAITING.....(I BET YOU WILL SKIP THIS PART)...

There is none on Earth, organisms reproduce, there is no room for intelligence to form through abiogenesis. The only place this could have happened is at the initial formation of life, the first life form on Earth. But don't worry whatsup, science is making remarkable progress, soon we will be able to recreate the conditions of early Earth and possibly even watch life form through abiogenesis in the lab.

YOUR RIGHT, THATS WHY I AGREE WITH EVOLUTION.....

So you agree that all speices evolved from common ancestors?

OPINION IS ONE THING, FACT IS ANOTHER THING...I KNOW FOR A FACT GOD EXIST.....MY FAITH IS THAT GOD EXIST FOR A FACT...WHY? BECAUSE I HAAVE EXPERIENCED HIM, MANY HAVE....SO TO YOU GOD IS AN OPINION, A THEORY, OR A MYTH......BUT TO US WHO EXPERIENCED HIM, HE IS A FACT......

To those who have experienced magic without knowing the facts behind it the existance of a force called magic is proven. But of course we know there is no such force, just as we know God does not exist. The fact that people believe in magic, or God, does not change the fact that they do not exist.

WHEN SOMEONE HAVE INCURABLE CANCER (INCURABLE BY SCIENCE) AND HE WAS CURED BY HIS PRAYERS, THAT PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.....

Not at all. As Cris explained cancer sometimes goes into spontaneous remission. And what if an atheist was 'cured' of this cancer? What would you say then? That Satan did it?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
AND??? WHATS YOUR POINT??? I AM AWARE THAT OUR INTELLIGENCE HAVE CAME TO THE POINT OF INVENTING THINGS, SO WHATS YOUR POINT??? IS THAT YOUR PROOF GOD DONT EXIST? SO GOD DONT EXIST BECAUSE WE CREATED AIRPLANES?? , WITH THAT COMMENT, I SEE IT DIFFERENTLY...SUCH COMMENT PROVES THAT HUMAN PRIDE IS THE CAUSE OF ATHEISM, BECOMING THEIR OWN GODS....

No, whatsupyall, you do not worship your god. You worship yourself.

 

[wesmorris]

I noticed in another thread someone expressing kudos to Whatsup... this must mean that there is more that one Whatsup worshipper (including Whatsup). This could be a trend. Maybe he'll get a cult? Whatsup is prolly gonna be the next david koresh and I'm so damned jealous! I want a cult damnit, for the chicks!

*imagines himself saying to hubby of hottie 18 year old chick "dude, she's got to blow me for god. Jesus said."*

that'd be the life baby.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios

To those who have experienced a magic show a mysterious force called 'magic' is real, it is proven to them to exist. However once they learn magic is really just a series of optical illusions and carefully planned tricks, they realize they were wrong. Who says Christianity is not the same way?

I agree kid...Thats why back then, natives and others accuse the "Gods" when lightning strikes them, or earthquake..Why? Because they are ignorant about it. But once you learn it in detail and complexity, then you realize the real cause of lightning and earthquakes, the physics behind it, instead of accusing "THE GODS"...Yes I agree with you, thats why I believe in God, because I am not stupid.......FACT HERE IS IS THAT COMPLEX, FUNCTIONING, ORDERED EXISTENCE ARE EFFECTS OF INTELLIGENT CAUSE AS IT IS PROVEN IN THE REAL WORLD, DO YOU LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD? OR IN THE ATHEISTS HALLUCINATORY WORLD? IN THE REAL WORLD, 5+5=10...IN REALITY THERE IS NOTHING CHAOTIC ABOUT OUR UNIVERSE OR GALAXY......EVEN STARS ARE BEING RECYCLED AND RE-BIRTH, BLACKHOLE, A DESIGN. THE NATURE, LIFE, DEATH, CARNIVORE, OMNIVORE, PREDATORS, THE HUMAN BODY, HEART, ETC. ALL COMPLEX, ORDERED, AND FUNCTIONING, A TRUE DESIGN.

YOU CALL THIS "CHAOS", YOU ARE HALLUCINATING, DELUSIONAL, STUPID....WAKE UP!

...DESPITE THE DETECTION OF ATOMS AND SUB-ATOMIC PARTICLES (ELECTRON, ETC.) EVEN THEN WE STILL CANT CREATE LIFE FORMS.......... DO YOU PROPOSE AND PREDICT "ONE DAY MAYBE SCIENIST CAN CREATE LIFE FORMS", WELL THEN, GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR WISHFULL THINKING, BUT AS OF NOW, I WILL LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD, A WORLD OF DESIGN.......KAPEESH TO YOU DELUDED KID..........

Originally posted by Xelios

There is none on Earth, organisms reproduce, there is no room for intelligence to form through abiogenesis. The only place this could have happened is at the initial formation of life, the first life form on Earth. But don't worry whatsup, science is making remarkable progress, soon we will be able to recreate the conditions of early Earth and possibly even watch life form through abiogenesis in the lab. ?

The question I posted is "Every biological existence are effects of intelligent cause", then I asked "Tell me one creature in this universe that have parents in which have no intelligence? tell me.."

WHY ARE YOU SKIPPING MY QUESTION? CHANGING TOPIC, THE FACT HERE IS THAT TECHNOLOGICAL EXISTENCE AND BIOLOGICAL EXISTENCE ARE THE EFFECTS OF INTELLIGENT CAUSE...

THIS PROVES YOUR DELUSIONAL, NOT LIVING IN THE REAL WORLD......

Originally posted by Xelios

So you agree that all speices evolved from common ancestors??

THIS ALSO PROVES THAT YOU HAVE EARS BUT CANT HEAR, YOUR BLINDED....I HAVE MENTIONED THIS LIKE A MILLION TIMES BEFORE.....

Originally posted by Xelios

The fact that people believe in magic, or God, does not change the fact that they do not exist. ?

AGAIN YOU MAKE A COMMENT THAT GOD DONT EXIST, BUT THE FACT IS YOU CANT PROVE IT........MAGIC EXIST, BUT NOT THE WAY WE THOUGHT OF IT...IT MAY FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT WE THINK...SOME OF US THINK THAT THIS GUY CAN TALK TO "GHOSTS", BUT INTELLIGENT PEEPS RECOGNIZE THAT THE SPEED OF HANDS CAN BE FASTER THAN THE MUSCLE MOVEMENT OF THE EYE. PLUS PSYCHOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, WHEN YOU CAN TAKE THE MAN'S ATTENTION AWAY FROM CERTAIN THINGS (DISTRACT THEM) THEN THE OTHERS THINGS THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION ARE NOT BEING PROGRAMMED INTO THEIR MIND....

YOU SAID MAGIC DONT EXIST, THIS COMMENT OF YOURS PROVES YOUR DELUSIONAL.......

Originally posted by Xelios

Not at all. As Cris explained cancer sometimes goes into spontaneous remission. And what if an atheist was 'cured' of this cancer? What would you say then? That Satan did it?

SOMETIMES? WHY AT OTHER TIMES IT DONT? BY CHANCE? AGAIN, ATHEISTS ARE ONLY GOOD AT PATHETIC OPINIONS, BUT NO SCIENTIFICAL FACTS..I AM NOT INTERESTED ON YOUR OPINIONS, I ONLY CARE ABOUT FACTS, THATS IT....PERIOD........
EVEN JESUS HEALED THOSE WHO ARE NOT JEWS, SUCH AS THE ROMAN PAGAN (CENTURION) WHO ASKED JESUS TO HEAL HIS SERVANT, AND JESUS DID SO AND THEN SAID "TRULY I SAY UNTO YOU, I HAVE NOT SEEN A MAN WHO HAVE GREATER FAITH THAN HE IN JERUSALEM"........... (AT THE TIME WERE CONSIDERED "NON-BELIEVERS" AS ATHEISTS ARE TODAY...). A REAL FATHEER DONOT DISCRIMINATE AMONG HIS CHILDREN, BUT HE LOVES THEM ALL SINNERS OR NOT, BELIEVERS OR NOT........"HE GAVE THE SUN TO RISE FOR ALL"....

YOUR LUCKY, GOD LOVES STUPID PEOPLE TOO....

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
I agree kid...Thats why back then, natives and others accuse the "Gods" when lightning strikes them, or earthquake..Why? Because they are ignorant about it. But once you learn it in detail and complexity, then you realize the real cause of lightning and earthquakes, the physics behind it, instead of accusing "THE GODS"...Yes I agree with you, thats why I believe in God, because I am not stupid.

So how are multiple gods any more valid than one god, with the same evidence? Ask a primitive how he'd prove his gods, and he'd probably spout off the same "testimony of others, miracles occur, can't understand science anyway" argument.

The question I posted is "Every biological existence are effects of intelligent cause", then I asked "Tell me one creature in this universe that have parents in which have no intelligence? tell me.."

Fish...frogs...bugs...um...

You don't get that intelligent design discusses ORIGINS of life, do you?...not current reproduction. Try and stay on the same subject.

AGAIN YOU MAKE A COMMENT THAT GOD DONT EXIST, BUT THE FACT IS YOU CANT PROVE IT........MAGIC EXIST, BUT NOT THE WAY WE THOUGHT OF IT...IT MAY FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT WE THINK...SOME OF US THINK THAT THIS GUY CAN TALK TO "GHOSTS", BUT INTELLIGENT PEEPS RECOGNIZE THAT THE SPEED OF HANDS CAN BE FASTER THAN THE MUSCLE MOVEMENT OF THE EYE. PLUS PSYCHOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, WHEN YOU CAN TAKE THE MAN'S ATTENTION AWAY FROM CERTAIN THINGS (DISTRACT THEM) THEN THE OTHERS THINGS THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION ARE NOT BEING PROGRAMMED INTO THEIR MIND....

YOU SAID MAGIC DONT EXIST, THIS COMMENT OF YOURS PROVES YOUR DELUSIONAL.......

There's a difference between technology or abilities that have the appearance of magic, and magic in the sense of supernatural, unexplainable. The former still is explainable by science, even if we don't yet know the mechanisms.

But this is meaningless, since you still have yet to provide concrete examples of these miracles...until there is something to try and explain, it's merely talk about nothing.

YOUR LUCKY, GOD LOVES STUPID PEOPLE TOO....

You're lucky there isn't a God that judges people by how they treat other people...

 

[wesmorris]

Hmmm.. who's smarter... Whatsup or Xelios. I just.. man. THAT is a tough call. I mean, Xelios seems like a somewhat rational, intelligent human and Whatsup seems like an inbred bible thumping retard. Goddamnit I can't decide.

 

[Jaxom]

Whatsup can type in caps....that says something.

 

[James R]

whatsupyall:

<i>AGAIN, ATHEISTS ARE ONLY GOOD AT PATHETIC OPINIONS, BUT NO SCIENTIFICAL FACTS..I AM NOT INTERESTED ON YOUR OPINIONS, I ONLY CARE ABOUT FACTS, THATS IT....PERIOD........ </i>

Then how about you start presenting some scientifical facts? So far, all I've seen from you is opinion, usually expressed in ALL CAPS, as if that somehow makes it more convincing.

 

[Xelios]

Whatsup, I'm not even going to bother replying until you STOP TALKING IN ALL CAPS. If you want a reply out of me keep your posts civilized.