jesus christ is god

[aardappelvreter]

- SnakeLord -

I hope the following answers some questions. I think it is important to look at all the facts we have from the Bible (true or untrue). I don't know everything, nor do I pretend to. Frankly some of the questions you ask are questions that have made me think more deeply about this, and I thank you for that. We are humans we aren't perfect, so I will try and put down what I believe, and ask you to put down what you believe, no arguments yet to see where we are at. Here goes:

I believe there is a God, because there is evidence for him through what he has made, this earth and everything in it. Because He has created the world, he deserves glorification and thanks. However man has turned away (sin) and become, "filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deciet and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless." Because God hates sin he became angry with human beings. But God is just he "will give to each person according to what he has done." But of course humans are not perfect for "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". God foresaw that problem and sent Jesus Christ as a sacrifice of atonement and "demonstrates His own love for us in this, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Christ died for our sins, for our wrongs, for God is just and cannot let us get off for free, that is why Christ was crucified on the cross. When we accept Jesus, we are alive in Christ, and dead to sin. For when we accept Jesus our old self dies, and we are raised to live a new life. "Since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him." In the same way for death is the result of sin, we are dead to sin, and sin no longer has mastery over us. "for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." So sin has no mastery over us for "Those who live according to the sinful nature have thir minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace." IN doing this God gave us the right to become his children. "those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." This is how much God loves us, we are allowed to be his children. For "neither death nor life, neither angels, nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." The covenant originally came through the Jews, but it is also for the Gentiles, for God is just "Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. ' It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." It truly is God's mercy for, "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. " and "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." shows that is is your choice.

This is what I believe what do you believe?

 

[aardappelvreter]

- SnakeLord -



god has this overwhelming need for perfection. He demands gold, blue and purple cloths, cows with perfect testicles- everything is perfect, and as many have argued with me, god demands perfection for he is perfect..... yet now we look at jesus- a commoner, a peasant in essence. If we look at the film IJ and the last crusade at the end they get to choose the cup of christ... the guy chooses a perfect golden cup and dies, indy chooses a shabby wooden cup and lives. However that in itself is against the very basics of god. God is perfection and demands it. You can see this many times within the bible- god demands gold and the highest quality of everything for he is god.

A poor worker of evil would be shabby, would be a peasant in essence- he is not interested in gold or perfection- just souls. God on the other hand is perfect and demands he be treated in such manner.


God looks at the state of your heart, that was what the whole idea of Jesus humbling himself was about. God looks at peoples hearts not at peoples outside.

 

[aardappelvreter]

Im sure if i went round spouting the fact im god/on par with god people would hate me, ridicule me, and spit on me... Now i ask what the people did to jesus? he had his 12 believers- i guarantee you i could find 12 people to believe in me- yet the rest had him condemned.


That is true, people do this (all the time???) sometimes. But has any other person claiming to be God had so many followers that have continued for 2000 years?

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
"Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." -John 12:44-47 (KJV)

Evilpoet,

What you have to bare in mind is that Jesus apparently stated your quote above before he was resurrected. If you look at what I quoted which is "Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority
in heaven and on earth has been given to me. " it clearly states that he had just been given all authority in heaven and earth etc.

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Cool, nice to make your aquaintance..



There can be drawn from this several fundamental flaws when working in context with religious, (mainly christian), belief.

Firstly we have the concept of god knowing the future. Many christians even go so far as to state jesus was present in the time of genesis.........

Snake.

Snake,

Let me think about this a bit as you have certainly made some valid and interesting points. I'm a bit drunk now so i'll continue this discussion tomorrow.

BTW is there ANY christians out there that can add anything to this discussion?

Later.

 

[aardappelvreter]

- SnakeLord -


It also says many times he is 'the son of man'. Aren't we all the son of man?


"
NO 'Son of Man' does not primarily refer to Jesus' humanity. Instead it's a direct allusion to Daniel 7:13-14

"IN my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and soverign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

The son of Man was a divine figure in the old testament book of Daniel, who would come at the end of the world to judge mankind and rule forever. Thus, The claim toe be the Son of Man would be in effect a claim on divinity. " Craig Blomberg in the Case for Christ

 

[SnakeLord]

I believe there is a God, because there is evidence for him through what he has made, this earth and everything in it.

I will not deny the possibility. What strikes a chord with me is how someone chooses a correct god over a false one. At the same time i feel sorry for the ignorant masses who are worshipping false gods, (other gods than the christian one).

a god or gods exist in every culture known to mankind. To my knowledge there has never been a civilisation of people that were completely without a god/s.

To get a clearer picture i find it always worthwhile going back to the earlier sources. In Sumerian texts you will find an overwhelming majority of the bible in its original form. However their 'gods' were mortal space travelling aliens.

Having read that do we assume them to be idiots? to be wrong? If they're wrong and most of their works led to the bible wouldn't the bible also be wrong? The garden of eden was in Sumeria, (attested to by the religious sector), Abraham was sumerian, noah was sumerian, (known as Ziusudra), as was moses, (sargon).

Currently nobody can agree with each other- even christians argue amongst themselves between what is right and what isnt. It is openly obvious we have zero understanding of what is and what isnt and as such i leave myself in a position of 'maybe, maybe not'. I wont say no, i wont say yes- to do either is completely presumptuous in my opinion.

There are people who have religious experiences but there are also people who get abducted by aliens. I knew this 6foot 8 black guy who was convinced he was a white guy and related to the queen, (England). Nothing in this world could have persuaded him otherwise and thus he is no different to someone who has 'seen god personally'. When a belief is so deeply rooted it becomes a personal reality. Hell, there have been people who have passed lie detector tests, hypnotising etc to show they were abducted by aliens. Does that actually mean they were? if the mind actually believes something without question it is to all intents and purposes a truth, and one that will pass any kind of test.

Even to this day a whole new bunch of religions, (or cults), come into existence. They base themselves on their own interpretations of religious texts and find devout followers who believe everyone else is going to hell, while the other camp believe the same in return.

The idea of heaven and hell to me is laughable. In the bible it is said not to judge and yet every religious person i;ve come into contact with does exactly that. I masturbate im going to hell, i smoke im going to hell, my neighbours an asshole- im going to hell. Much like the next man i do appreciate and understand morals but the fear which is bred into most of us as children is a little out of place and far from needed. The religious establishment portrays moral through fear... kill someone and go to hell..... however that's more in line with conscience-less killing. I can pretty much guarantee that given the right circumstances all of us would kill.

The whole thing to me is like a giant bag of pick and mix. People suit themselves according to their own needs. In england there has been an alarming increase in priests etc that are paedophiles. Many a vicar is found with kiddy porn on his computer.... What would the argument be from their side? Well let's see..... Nowhere in the bible does god say you can't sleep with kids. He says not to sleep with animals, people of the same sex, your aunt, your sister in law..... but nowhere does he say dont sleep with kids. Does that make being a paedophile morally correct? So if it's not morally correct but god never said so where does that moral attitude come from? If we can learn that one moral guideline without the help of god whats to say the others are any different? I don't kill people- it has nothing to do with god or fear of hell. Why do religious people not kill? Is it because or moral principle or because they dont want to burn? If god was proven false tommorrow i can bet a million religious folk would be out on the streets slaughtering the innocent.

Personally i feel that IF there is a god he wouldn't be as callous as to doom us all to eternal flame for being ignorant of the truth. This would include, (if we are to believe the christian faith is the correct one), the overwhelming majority of inhabitants of this planet. In essence heaven would be barely populated.

Saying "God is there for all to see, he gives you the signs" is not an answer. The fact you can see these signs does not mean everyone else is as gifted. (I dont refer to you specifically, it's loose usage of the word).

Visitor would appear about now and say those of us who cant see these signs are sons of cain, whereas the rest of you are sons of adam. That is not an answer either but satisfies the insanely self-righteous believers such as Visitor. If it is simply a case of our descendants we are hardly at fault. We do not choose our parents. If we are to believe god and his master plan then god would choose our parents and as such would be choosing our fate before we're even a sperm.

Of course the christian has an answer for everything so he says: "As long as you love jesus". But that is not an answer either- it's just a scapegoat. In exactly the same manner that sentence is used to forgive yourself of sins undertaken.

I actually like the Sumerian texts. I think the idea of a more powerful alien being, (mortal but much more advanced), created us. It would certainly fit into the idea of slavery or working for them. They travel the galaxy and some settle on a planet.. would you, in that position, go digging your own food or make a highly inferior being to do it for you, to serve you and to work for your needs instead of theirs? Much like we have technically inferior species to work for us, (Donkeys, camels, horses, etc).

This ties in wonderfully with the bible and the constant references to 'alien like' craft, beings etc. Even the usage of Elohim, (a plural word meaning gods), and gods own speeches in plural suggests a group of beings which coincides with earlier texts. I will at some stage get to the whole 'aliens in the bible' debate. I have seen some sites regarding this but so far i believe they have been lacking. I aim to further the notion.

Either way, as it currently stands, i cannot say yes, i cannot say no. I really don't think i can be faulted for that.

That's pretty much how i see it.

However man has turned away (sin) and become, "filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deciet and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

And in all these thousands of years nothing has changed. The reason being: That's how humans are. If god really didn't like sin as you stated he could have, in all likelihood, made a better working model. The garden of eden was lush and perfect for man and god but he destined man to fail. Man can still have his free will- but why put the tree in front of their nose, knowing in advance they would fail, you'd kick them out, people would sin and nothing would ever be the way you, as god, would want it to be. The religious notion is that it's a test, fail you go to hell. However why give a test to something you know it's going to fail? When my car has its m.o.t i don't get it done if i know its going to fail. I fix the car then get it tested, knowing it will pass.

I read the rest of your post about jesus, and while interesting, im still inclined to disagree.

One thing i find interesting is the promise of god in the OT to this eternal gift in the NT.

In the OT god's gift is always "making people numerous, and rich and powerful" on earth. In the NT it's all: pray to jesus and live forever.... That's a hell of a gift to offer in comparison to gods original presents to man and one that imo evil would offer knowing it holds more value than that of lots of land, and spreading of your people.

god says: Leviticus 25:23 "The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants."

His offer to those who follow, worship and love him is to give that land to them.

Secondly i earlier mentioned confusions in the NT especially surrounding jesus but forgot one point. The confusion that arises in consideration to jesus' ressurrection. In one instance the tomb has two angels, in one four angels, in one 2 angels- 2 men, in one 4 angels- 4 men or something along those lines- forgive my memory block- i'll try point the specific passages for you shortly. This shows how unsure his whole ressurrection is: who ressurrected him, if anyone, how did they ressurrect him? Was it gods work or the devils?

I just think it should be acknowledged that perhaps the wrong end of the stick has been grabbed. Perhaps he did die for our sins- but the 'perhaps' makes me a guy of 'maybe, maybe not' belief. Of course the simple act of saving himself and claiming it to be for the good of others seems a tad fishy at best. The fact as written remains he technically died but then stood up and walked off- which would show no true sacrifice- more the amusement of a magician or the tricks of evil. He was very self-promoting, as i suppose god can be also, but didn't have the care for perfection that god always has. I mentioned in my other post about gods demands for gold, perfect sacrifices- hell, god wouldn't even allow crippled people near him- and yet there's jesus going against gods demands and sitting happily with deformed folk. It's completely contradictory to the attitude shown by god throughout the bible. As it's pure contradiction one may think jesus is in fact the opposite of god...

As i also said it might seem more morally correct- which is why people worship him- but is not the style of the lord god.

The true anger of the lord when seeing man made crafted idols of worship is clearly seen:

"I have seen this people, and they are a stiff-necked people indeed! Let me alone, so that i may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven... (and i will make you into a nation stronger and more numerous than they)."

Yet several thousand years later millions upon millions of pound, dollars and drachma are being made selling golden, (or otherwise), crafted idols that are used as tools of worship. On it is a depiction of a man who is a self-proclaimed god.

It goes against everything god stands for, demands, and is.

 

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by davewhite04
"Matthew 28 18 Then Jesus came to them and said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given
to me. " it clearly states that he had just been given
all authority in heaven and earth etc.

What about this? How do you suggest I read this ...

"since they show that the requirements of the law are
written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing
witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even
defending them.) This will take place on the day when
God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares." -Romans 2:15-16 (NIV)

 

[SnakeLord]

Lol i don't even get 5 minutes breathing space between one post and the next however, i do like the debate- it's good food for the brain.

God looks at the state of your heart, that was what the whole idea of Jesus humbling himself was about. God looks at peoples hearts not at peoples outside.

"No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has an eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles"

God was adamant about perfection throughout his reign before jesus came and took over. Now let's compare this to the words of jesus:

"Better to chop your hand off....."

"Better to gouge your eye out...."

One rejects defect the other promotes it by self-mutilation. Again working in complete opposites to each other. God demands absolute perfection- jesus tries to persuade men to become anything other than perfect.

It nearly reminds me of vampires when jesus says "eat of my flesh, drink of my blood.." I wouldn't trust the guy with a hundred foot bargepole.

If i had to believe in a god without doubt it would certainly be god, not any off-shoot thereof. My trust would be placed in the ONLY true god, not his son, daughter or pet goat. If indeed they were one and the same it really wouldn't make a difference. I would adhere to the commands of god as spoken by the ONLY true god, not any off-shoot thereof. As such i would probably end up jewish heh?

That is true, people do this (all the time???) sometimes. But has any other person claiming to be God had so many followers that have continued for 2000 years?

Well we're working on the premise that jesus died for sins, but overlooking the fact he got up and wandered off afterwards- thus not sacrificing anything.

However.... look at religions/cults like Scientology, hell even Christianity that survive no matter what happens. Ok, perhaps the only other person who came close when claiming to be god is god himself. His time is done- so he now takes a backseat to his son. You might- throughout the future- find people being worshipped to the same degree- although on much less a scale population wise.. however times have changed which pretty much ensures it as an impossibility. We live in such a diverse and choiceful age much different to the time when jesus was around.

Further to mention many many many millions of people regard aliens as their gods- with overwhelming evidence to back up their claims. This has stemmed from thousands of years before jesus to modern day times and is growing every day.

Many many many millions regard the universe itself as god- this also grows on a daily basis. Random evolution etc is the god of many- and it never even had to make a claim to being so. While jesus had to shout it from the rooftops, walk on water, get temporarily killed and is still to this day spurned by the majority. Nobody liked him then, the majority still dont. Ok, we're destined to hell but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

"IN my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and soverign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

Thanks, i actually found this interesting. The only thing that ruins it from my own perspective is "In my vision". By working on mens 'visions' we enter a seriously skeptical realm. I will not deny the possibility or even plausability of 'visions' but it is a dodgy subject in whole as far as i see it.

Recently i had a vision. A woman in white walked past me saying something i could not hear. She even looked familiar, although it was but a fleeting sighting/vision. Later that day i found out a friend of mine, (woman), had died. Did i see a ghost? Did i have a vision of her impending death? It's rocky ground to walk on and i do so lightly.

The son of Man was a divine figure in the old testament book of Daniel, who would come at the end of the world to judge mankind and rule forever.

Wouldn't that signify jesus as not being the son on man? We can state for fact 2000 years ago was not the end of the world and yet thats when he came. Ok, we can argue he'll come back again but that's pure speculation until it happens.

Thus, The claim toe be the Son of Man would be in effect a claim on divinity. " Craig Blomberg in the Case for Christ

Thus, the claim of jesus being the son of man is faulty. Snakey Stew in the case for jesus not being who we think he was.

[Further, further edit] Yeesh, it never ends!! Well, it shows im dedicated i guess...

'Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the lord god had made. He said to the woman, "Did god really say, 'you must not eat from any tree in the garden?'"
The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but god did say, 'you must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die'"
"You will not surely die." The serpent said to the woman.

Here we have temptation by the serpent, (some refer to the serpent as satan which is groundless and some others like visitor even translate it as eve getting her end away with the devil but whatever).

What does jesus do? He completely removes gods rules and then says: "you'll live forever"

The same deception brought on with a different face? Who's to say...

 

[firingseeds]

snakelord

hi, mr lord.
firstly, we will establish the law, there being the law of works and the doctrine of grace. this will be established quite clearly and simply for u - once and for all. (this is a repeat too, i think?)
it may take me some time to get back to u on other issues u raised, but i will. i had quite a few wordly issues to deal with today, like having to travel half-way across the city to obtain second-hand car panels etc.
the law of works was given to the hebrew peoples for their constant doubt and disrespect to god. the doctrine of grace is the fundamental aspect of mercy in christ, lord jesus.
why the law was established:
galatians 3:19-20
wherefore then serveth the law? it was added because of transgressions, till the seed (jesus) should come to whom the promise* was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator (jesus).
now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one. (which firmly establishes that god sees himself and jesus as one).

1 corinthians 10:4 establishes that jesus is present at the exodus from egypt...and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them: and that rock was christ.

*now we will simply establish the rights to the promise:
and to the CURSE OF THE LAW.

galatians 3:16-18
now to abraham and his seed were the promises made. he saith
not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is christ.
and this i say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of god in christ (notice god in christ), THE LAW, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
for if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but god gave it to abraham by promise.

galatians 3:10-14
for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
but that no man is justified by the law in the sight of god, it is evident: for, they shall live by faith.
and the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live in them.
christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (refer deuteronomy 21:23...for he that is hanged is accursed of god)

galatians 3:24
wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto christ, that WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

galations 3:14
that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles thru jesus christ; that we might receive the promise of the spirit thru faith.

hope these things help. this is still kindergarden. even einstein didn't know these simple principles (bless his soul), so it just goes to show: not what ya know, who ya know. (don't waste it).

amen lord jesus.

 

[firingseeds]

snakelord.

i enjoyed that, snakelord, especially about the use of coinage. u raised a very interesting theory. i recalled the story of the coin - give unto caesar his due, and give unto god his. and the lord did preach - and still does today thru his word - the kingdom of man, and the kingdom of heaven.
so ya not just a pretty face

matthew 22:20-21
and he saith unto them, whose is this image and superscription?
they say unto him, caesar's. then saith he unto them, render therefore unto caesar the things which are caesar's; and unto god the things that are god's.

john 16:11
of judgement, because the prince of this world is judged.

after we get thru all this stuff, we'll discuss the return, or second coming, of lord jesus; tho, theres a few issues yet to be settled. christians describe this as the second coming, jews as the first.
shalom

 

[SnakeLord]

it may take me some time to get back to u on other issues u raised, but i will

I await response with anticipation.

the law of works was given to the hebrew peoples for their constant doubt and disrespect to god. the doctrine of grace is the fundamental aspect of mercy in christ, lord jesus.

My posts, if you haven't been paying attention, have been made to show my belief that jesus is in fact a worker of evil. This remark by you bears no relevance to that whatsoever.

The multitude of laws given to the hebrews was done so a long long time before jesus was even a spiritual sperm. He has no relevance when concerning laws given to the hebrews. Ok, from text it does seem prevalent to say the hebrews doubted god quite often- especially seen in exodus. Gods laws though were actually pretty normal and basic to a growing society- cleanliness laws, sexual based laws and so on- something any growing society could use as a template for moralistic behaviour. The punishment for betraying these laws in the majority of cases was death. As a defender to the jews moaning one must appreciate the situation of being stuck in a desert eating manna for forty plus years. It would make even the most robust of us start to complain. However, in reference to your comment i disagree that rules were given because the jews disrespected god- far from it actually. Laws were given by god from day 1, (You cannot eat of the fruit yada yada..). Having made a being of some intelligence it would seem pertinent to lay down base rules. Those rules are not given because people are disrespectful, and i see nothing to make you believe this to be the case.

why the law was established:
galatians 3:19-20
wherefore then serveth the law? it was added because of transgressions, till the seed (jesus) should come to whom the promise* was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator (jesus).
now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one. (which firmly establishes that god sees himself and jesus as one).

You are using text written a damn long time after the events to explain things differently to how they are explained nearer the time of those events? Pretty pointless. Galatians is how many years after Genesis? how many years after Exodus and Leviticus?

However if it's all you have, go with it.. Of course this is at a time when jesus is present- My topics have been about jesus being a fraud, i also spoke about god and jesus being separate entities. Your quote does not deny either of these.

If we look just before that we see a flawed argument:

'The scripture does not say "and to seeds", meaning many people, but "and to your seed", meaning one person, who is christ'

That is fundamentally flawed. "Seed" they talk of refers to offspring. As you should know you do not say: "and to offsprings", (to your seeds)- you say "and to your offspring", (and to your seed) which is singular- obviously not plural. It's basic propoganda spread to deceive the common folk. Basically jesus and his cronies have taken ONE word out of old texts and completely changed it's context to suit their needs. If jesus feels he can promote himself with the use of one word from texts dated way before his existence it goes further to show his being a fraud.

now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one. (which firmly establishes that god sees himself and jesus as one).

That doesn't establish, firmly or otherwise, anything. A mediator is a person who works not alone but between several people- dictionary definition would be: One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants. As the text says a mediator is not a mediator of one... a guy can't mediate between himself and himself. Thus a mediator is a guy who works between several people. Then it says: but god is one. ok... god is one. In this instance jesus would be the mediator working between the one god and the human population. Nowhere in your quote does it even remotely signify god and jesus being one.

for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them: and that rock was christ.

Your quote here is written how many years after the events? Also look at it in length: It is written in order to promote and preach jesus as being close in regard/on par with god. god has not said here that jesus was the rock- some guy has who believes jesus to be his god- for obvious personal benefit: "so that after i have preached to others, i myself will not be disqualified for the prize"
Jesus offers him eternal life and it's quite evident this guy wanted it so bad he would have said anything to make it happen.

These people were followers of jesus. My post was about jesus being a fraud. None of this even tries to dispute what i said, instead you seem to be wandering off into some land of preaching and showing that because a jesus worshipper says jesus is god it must be true.

now to abraham and his seed were the promises made.

Now to abraham and his *offspring* were the promises made..

Or in your line of reasoning:

Now to abraham and his jesus were the promises made.

Yeah ok, that makes sense.

(notice god in christ)

Similar to when a christian says he has christ in him? Does that signify jesus and you are one and the same entity? Want me to start worshipping you? No? You might be able to figure out what i'd say next then.

christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us

Thereby going directly against god. hes saying gods laws are a curse for us, and while that might be true persay, they are the laws of the ONLY true god. jesus just thinks he can walk all over them and offer an alternative? However we should refreain from discussing faith vs works or any issue related or i shall be forced to point out the commonly known and obvious contradictions throughout the NT regarding faith vs works.

wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto christ, that WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.

Again, written by the same jesus devotee for his own personal gains. This is actually against all that god stands for in the OT. It has turned gods laws into nothing more than a farce, in fact going so far as trying to make them redundant.

that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles thru jesus christ; that we might receive the promise of the spirit thru faith.

This almost sounds specifically as if the gentiles wanted a piece of the god pie offered to the jews. As such they found and made their own god. In time they diverted further from god, hanging idols around their necks, devaluing all that god has ever commanded etc.. Evil is very temptine i must say.... unlike the god of the jews you don't have to work or slave for your earnings.. all you have to do is believe and you will apparently get what you want. gods overwhelmingly arduous listings of laws and commandments has been swept under the carpet in favour of the simplicity of evil.

hope these things help.

Most were generally unrelated to the issues, but nm.

this is still kindergarden. even einstein didn't know these simple principles (bless his soul), so it just goes to show: not what ya know, who ya know. (don't waste it).

Whatever you have aimed to achieve with this mundane statement i'll just nod and say "whatever".

amen lord jesus

I would say 'are you sure you know what you're doing?" but to be honest i don't care where you end up after this life. I, being just a humble non-religious fanatic, obviously have no sense of morals. Furthermore even if i was a loyal devotee to god i would deem having to promote him to others as being rather worthless. It demeans the very value of god.

Like a vicious plague, jesus' name is spread from one household to the next. "Just trust in jesus and ye shall be saved. Who cares if you sin? jesus will fix it, who cares if you sin, jesus died for you, (ok never mention jesus is apparently alive and well).

 

[firingseeds]

snakelord

the only thing that springs to mind before i hit the sack is psalm 110; a psalm of david: (i suppose that's rigged, also ).
the lord said unto my lord, sit thou at my right hand, until i make thine enemies thy footstool.
cheers

 

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by SnakeLord
Like a vicious plague, jesus' name is spread from one household to the next.

"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be
hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the
chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously
deny it." -Richard Dawkins

 

[firingseeds]

poet


night

 

[EvilPoet]

An Impatient Letter From God

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by SnakeLord

Firstly we have the concept of god knowing the future. Many christians even go so far as to state jesus was present in the time of genesis, which wouldn't be possible if he wasn't even a twinkle in his fathers eye. There are ways around this- by future prophecy. god could say: "in the future i will have a son who you shall worship as a god also". At least like this we can find even more evidence to show god and jesus were two completely different entities- which is disagreed upon by many people here. Instead of all that god specifically said not to worship other gods and that he was the only god- indicating that any other god worshipped would have to be a false god, seeings as he's the ONLY god -attestified to even by jesus. Of course he could have said: "You are to worship me, and worship my son who i will place among you in the land of israel.." At least that would clear up the problems between his children, (the israelites), and the 'breed' that surfaced to worship his apparent 'son' first and foremost way after, (the christians).

Agreed, God is all knowing. I to have read somewhere that the Divine messenger in Genesis 16:7, 18, 21:17, 31:11; Exodus 3:2 was in fact God the Son.

I would like to hear what the opinions are of some hardcore Christians on this.

As I’ve mentioned in the Christian belief there are three persons pertaining to the Godhead, the father the son and the holy spirit. Each one being distinct. The father is God, the son is God the Holy spirit is God yet there is only one God.

For something so important, (as the son of god), why would god send an angel to deliver messages?

Angels are Gods messengers, delivering messages is one of there jobs.

In the olden days when handing out simple things like laws god did all the talking himself, personally. (ok he sent angels with regard to Sodom but he was angry at the time).

God must of felt that his presence was required when stating the laws.

He even went so far as to sit on a mountain with noah and write out commandments.

Noah? I think you meant Moses

the only way to truly know he is to be worshipped as a god, on the same level as god, or even beyond god is for god to say so himself. jesus can say anything he wants to say, it's inconsequential. I could now say exactly the same thing. Im sure if i went round spouting the fact im god/on par with god people would hate me, ridicule me, and spit on me... Now i ask what the people did to jesus? he had his 12 believers- i guarantee you i could find 12 people to believe in me- yet the rest had him condemned. Many people gave him the benefit of the doubt because he healed them when they were sick.... sometimes the greatest act of evil would be to pray on the needy. f you help the needy they will be eternally devoted to you. The same in actuality can be said of god. However, especially in the early days, god was forever present. He was there leading the people in their masses. Now when people have these religious revelations it's not god they see, it's jesus. How can anyone so easily assume jesus isn't a messenger of evil- persuading the needy to go against god and his commands and follow a person who could do miracles.

I suppose you either accept Jesus as the Son of God or you don’t, simple choice. Jesus was at the very least a good man, he healed, fed and inspired people while he roamed the earth. I can't see any evil in that...

god has this overwhelming need for perfection. He demands gold, blue and purple cloths, cows with perfect testicles- everything is perfect, and as many have argued with me, god demands perfection for he is perfect..... yet now we look at jesus- a commoner, a peasant in essence. If we look at the film IJ and the last crusade at the end they get to choose the cup of christ... the guy chooses a perfect golden cup and dies, indy chooses a shabby wooden cup and lives. However that in itself is against the very basics of god. God is perfection and demands it. You can see this many times within the bible- god demands gold and the highest quality of everything for he is god.

A poor worker of evil would be shabby, would be a peasant in essence- he is not interested in gold or perfection- just souls. God on the other hand is perfect and demands he be treated in such manner.

Jesus it seems does not take after his father in every sense. Jesus was offered control of all the great nations etc. by Satan but he rejected this. His mission was to save the world, not to become rich in it.

The difference between these two is astounding. jesus in no way resembles god or the perfection of god.

Maybe because Jesus depicted in the Bible is a human being albeit a godly one that can perform miracles.

Well i still disagree with this idea. jesus's death was nothing more than a magic trick. The question remains: is he dead? 3 days after dying he stood up, went and showed everyone then buggered off. What better way to get worship than by trickery?

He buggered off to heaven, to take his position at the right-hand side of God the Father.

Jesus did sacrifice his mortal life in the hope to save everyone, is this a work of evil? that's the question...

 

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by davewhite04
Agreed, God is all knowing.

Which one?

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
Which one?

God as depicted by christianity.

 

[davewhite04]

Originally posted by EvilPoet
An Impatient Letter From God

This was a good read, thanks EvilPoet.