Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict
- Thread starter goofyfish
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You must have guzzled a whole six-pack of Coronas if you think those events are even remotely similar.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
ill put up some bloody pictures of what Israeli soldiers are doing everyday and in contrast what CNN shows you. there coming soon, ill put them up as soon as i can.
Bloody pictures appeal to emotion and lack context. It's the last resort of someone who has lost their argument.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
75% of Palestinians are now living below the poverty line ($2 per day per person). The povertry line in "Israel" is $20 per day per person.
48% of all Palestinian women and 45% of children under 5 years are now aneamic. Before the intifada, 20% of Palestinian women were aneamic.
30% of all Palestinian children suffer malnutrition.
Generous offer to the Palestinians
Oslo Agreement to the Palestinians: You are going to have 22% of the 100% which was originally yours.
Barak's "Generous" offer to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.
Sharon's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours, and this 42% will remain under continuous curfew.
American Christian Zionists to the Palestinians: We are asking Sharon to give you 0% of 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.
Bush's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: I trust Sharon's judgment, since he is a 'man of peace,' but where the hell is Palestine?
Blair's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We started this whole mess. But right now I go along with Bush's extraordinary "vision."
48% of all Palestinian women and 45% of children under 5 years are now aneamic. Before the intifada, 20% of Palestinian women were aneamic.
30% of all Palestinian children suffer malnutrition.
Generous offer to the Palestinians
Oslo Agreement to the Palestinians: You are going to have 22% of the 100% which was originally yours.
Barak's "Generous" offer to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.
Sharon's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We are going to give you 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours, and this 42% will remain under continuous curfew.
American Christian Zionists to the Palestinians: We are asking Sharon to give you 0% of 42% of 80% of 22% of 100% of the land which was originally yours.
Bush's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: I trust Sharon's judgment, since he is a 'man of peace,' but where the hell is Palestine?
Blair's "Peace" plan to the Palestinians: We started this whole mess. But right now I go along with Bush's extraordinary "vision."
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel" - Ben-Gurion
(First Prime Minister of Israel)
One day, or rather night, in 1956 I sat up at his house [Ben-Gurion's] till three in the morning. That night, a beautiful summer night, we had a forthright discussion on the Arab problem.
"'I don't understand your optimism," Ben-Gurion declared.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country.
Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs.
We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them?
There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?
They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance.
So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out... "
From: Nahum Goldmann, The Jewish Paradox: A personal memoir - New York: Grosset and Dunlap, 1978, pp. 99-100.
(First Prime Minister of Israel)
One day, or rather night, in 1956 I sat up at his house [Ben-Gurion's] till three in the morning. That night, a beautiful summer night, we had a forthright discussion on the Arab problem.
"'I don't understand your optimism," Ben-Gurion declared.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country.
Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs.
We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them?
There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?
They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance.
So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out... "
From: Nahum Goldmann, The Jewish Paradox: A personal memoir - New York: Grosset and Dunlap, 1978, pp. 99-100.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
Classic Quotes on Zionism
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." -- Golda Meir Statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." -- Golda Meir (quoted in Chapter 13 of The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace by Alfred Lilienthal )
"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries,while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." -- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)
"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism,no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off." -- Yesha'ayahuBen-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without APeople" 1997, p.98)
Speaking about Zionism, and its effects on the indiginous Palestinians: (quotes from Alfred Lilienthal's The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace)
"We seem to have thought of everything -- except the Arabs" -- Judah Magnes
"If this be the Messiah, then I do not wish to see his coming" -- Ahad Ha'am speaking of Zionism.
"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot beruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism."-- Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister(p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987).
"The very point of Labor's Zionist program is to have as much land as possible and as few Arabs as possible!" --Yitzhak Navon ("moderate" ex-Israeli president and a leading labor party politician.) Cited on p.179 of Nur Masalha's A Land without a People who cites Bernard Avishai's The Tragedy of Zionism 1985 p.340.
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." -- Golda Meir Statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." -- Golda Meir (quoted in Chapter 13 of The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace by Alfred Lilienthal )
"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries,while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." -- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)
"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism,no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off." -- Yesha'ayahuBen-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without APeople" 1997, p.98)
Speaking about Zionism, and its effects on the indiginous Palestinians: (quotes from Alfred Lilienthal's The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace)
"We seem to have thought of everything -- except the Arabs" -- Judah Magnes
"If this be the Messiah, then I do not wish to see his coming" -- Ahad Ha'am speaking of Zionism.
"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot beruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism."-- Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister(p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987).
"The very point of Labor's Zionist program is to have as much land as possible and as few Arabs as possible!" --Yitzhak Navon ("moderate" ex-Israeli president and a leading labor party politician.) Cited on p.179 of Nur Masalha's A Land without a People who cites Bernard Avishai's The Tragedy of Zionism 1985 p.340.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
What if 158,000 Americans were killed?
In the last 20 months 1% of the Palestinian population has been killed or wounded by Israel.
In the USA that would be equivalent (if we take 1% of the American population) to 158,000 dead and 3,600,000 injured.
In the last 20 months 1% of the Palestinian population has been killed or wounded by Israel.
In the USA that would be equivalent (if we take 1% of the American population) to 158,000 dead and 3,600,000 injured.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
What about suicide bombings?
Extract from an interview by a western journalist with Shaykh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah:
What about the suicide bombings against Israeli civilians? What would Fadlallah say to me, I asked, if I were an Israeli father who had lost one of his three daughters to a suicide bomber? How would he counsel me?
"I would tell you that the person who killed your daughter is under occupation," Fadlallah said. "You have driven him to desperation. My advice to you would be to join forces with those who want to end the occupation. Then your other two daughters would be safe."
Washington Post, 7 June 2002
Extract from an interview by a western journalist with Shaykh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah:
What about the suicide bombings against Israeli civilians? What would Fadlallah say to me, I asked, if I were an Israeli father who had lost one of his three daughters to a suicide bomber? How would he counsel me?
"I would tell you that the person who killed your daughter is under occupation," Fadlallah said. "You have driven him to desperation. My advice to you would be to join forces with those who want to end the occupation. Then your other two daughters would be safe."
Washington Post, 7 June 2002
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
We killed children by fracturing their heads with sticks
Quoted from the Israeli newspaper Davar, 9 June 1979
Testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al Duwayima Village, on 29th October 1948:
"Killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children.
To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses.
One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up.
Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death.
Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby.
Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered "good guys" became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remained, the better."
Quoted from the Israeli newspaper Davar, 9 June 1979
Testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al Duwayima Village, on 29th October 1948:
"Killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children.
To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses.
One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up.
Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death.
Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby.
Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered "good guys" became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remained, the better."
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
spidergoat said:
lets see what you say after i show you HUNDREDs of pics. what will you say when you see a pic of 2 Israeli soldiers beating up an infant with sticks? or a soldier beating an old lady? or a 2 soldiers shooting a 50 year old suvillian man with automatic machine guns until his LEG FALLS OFF. or the pic of an 8 meter high wall which makes the schools/hospitals/work places over 18 km away (before the wall they were within 3km) and all of the people with no jobs/education/medical care as a direct result.
do you expect Palastinans to roll over and play dead when Israel invaded in 1947 and 1967 and took the land? would you if it happened to you? and as for those pictures, you have a choice if you want to see them unfortuantely the Palastinians dont. they see it every day so they are obvioulsy going to fight back the only way they can (suicide bombings)
No need to see hundreds of pics. My own cousin was a commando and medic patrolling in Lebanon. One night they saw someone walking around after cerfew holding something that looked like a gun. They shot a shoulder-fired missile at him. Turned out it was an old man with a broom. It was my cousins' duty to scoop up what was left of him. Such are the horrors of war.
Preacher_X
Registered Senior Member
AND THEY SAY IRAQ HAS BROKE 17!!
UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control" ...
The following are the resolutions vetoed by the United States during the period of September, 1972, to May, 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:
....condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria..."
....affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections..."
...condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians..."
....called for self-determination of Palestinian people..."...
http://www.mideastfacts.com/resolutions.html
U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
(1972-2003)
Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1...
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
And they (America) say Iraq violated 17 or something?
UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control" ...
The following are the resolutions vetoed by the United States during the period of September, 1972, to May, 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:
....condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria..."
....affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections..."
...condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians..."
....called for self-determination of Palestinian people..."...
http://www.mideastfacts.com/resolutions.html
U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
(1972-2003)
Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1...
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
And they (America) say Iraq violated 17 or something?
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The quotes about un resolusions are used for Israels argument. Isnt it funny that Israel, that even its most hatefull critics say its crimes are marginal compared to most countries during war, is beeing bombarded by so many resolusions? when u got dousans of muslim countries (and until 1990 the soviet block that supported them) it was very easy to sneak in resolusions. Means completley nothing. Write something original pls.
spidergoat said:Which party is responsible for blowing up buses anyway? Talk about a fair fight, that's laughable,
Whirlwind: The responsible parties are the trespassers that use hellfire/TOW antitank missile against Palestinaian civilans and then have people with no weapons or army to defend them go at them with homemade wepons and even clenched fists. Where is your sense of fair play, Pendejo!
-[1948] The Arab war to destroy Israel failed. Indeed, because of their aggression, the Arabs wound up with less territory than they would have had if they had accepted UN partition.
Whirlwind: The Zionist trespasser from Europe ran into Palestinian farmers and simple folk that didn't have the "cut throat" abilities of the European's who had 10,00 years of killing and pillaging in their background.
-The Jews won their war of independence with minimal help from the West. In fact, they won despite efforts to undermine their military strength.
The Zionist trespassers (thanks to modern Czeh heavy machineguns sent to them by the European and NYC Jews) won their "War of Terrorism." Murdering thousands of Palestinians (and peaceful Jews), while burning over 400 Arab villages and Mosques to the ground ( many of them with people still inside) led by Jewish thugs and murderers, like cut throat Ariel Sharon of the Force-1 who still majors in murder and mass genocide at age 73.
-Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14.
Whirlwind: Absolute lies. A Zionist killer with a machinegun was the equal of 50 Arabs with picks and shovels and a few rusty English Enfield rifles. Takes guts to even brag, ya know?
And then, in 1967,
Whirlwind: In 1967 the Jews started the war with a pre-emptive strike on the Arabs that wasn't even planning war.
- After the withdrawal of the UNEF, the Voice of the Arabs proclaimed (May 18, 1967): As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence
Whirlwind: How else can you feel about trespassers and parasites?
-An enthusiastic echo was heard May 20 from Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad: Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.
Whirlwind: What did you want the Arabs to say to the Zionist trespassers - "WELCOME!"
The rest is bla - bla - bla
((((yawn))))
( gotta take a pee, excuse me)
Whirlwind....
PS: The whole jist of your game is to show that a group of rabid Hyena's can devastate a herd of lambs - and you're right!
God sent these arrogant incorrigibles to wander in the desert for 40 years and like the Holocaust - they didn't learn nuttin, nada!
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