Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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Whirlwind, keep it up.. people will eventually see the truth.

When a country is stealing your territory and flying helicopters into what little of your territory is left to assasinate people, then that country should be retaliated against in any manner.

The actions of Israel do not resemble anything close to a human. Completely irresponsible, immoral and wreckless.. all with Americans like me footing the bill.
 
Civilians can go from armed to unarmed simply by dropping their rock, which happens after someone gets shot.

Who did Israel assasinate? The leader of a criminal terrorist group that has vowed to kill Israelis and makes no distinction between children and soldiers. Money well spent.
 
You can tell the people who support Israel's killings.. completely insensitive, yet would run if they thought someone was going to hurt them in any way.

It fits the whole philosophy.. not willing to fight a fair fight. They want to use helicopters and rifles to shoot poor people who have been forced from their land.

In 20 years history will have it written.. and Israel will be forced to pay reparations to the Palestinians. I can't wait to watch Israelis scrub the floors for Palestinians.
 
If terrorism is an act of cowardice as many say.. then what's launching a rocket from a helicopter at a 60+ year old crippled guy?


I see no relationship between "fair fight" and "whats fair about fighting". A fair fight would consist of following rules.. the rules in this case, international laws. One could argue that both sides were breaking rules.. does it go back to who started breaking the rules first?

When supporters of Israel are faced with ''but you're breaking international laws'', their response seems to always be ''he was a mean guy''.. Well the civilized world respects laws and tries them in the court.. they don't just decide for themselves that it doesn't apply.
 
Which party is responsible for blowing up buses anyway? I'm sensitive about violence, the whole point of Israel's attack on Hamas' leader is to stop violence. It is a last resort.

Talk about a fair fight, that's laughable,

-[1948] The Arab war to destroy Israel failed. Indeed, because of their aggression, the Arabs wound up with less territory than they would have had if they had accepted UN partition.

-The Jews won their war of independence with minimal help from the West. In fact, they won despite efforts to undermine their military strength.

-Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14.

And then, in 1967,

- After the withdrawal of the UNEF, the Voice of the Arabs proclaimed (May 18, 1967):
As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence

-An enthusiastic echo was heard May 20 from Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad:
Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.

-Nasser then announced:
The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.

SO,
With the support of 9 nations and the Soviet Union the Arabs could not defeat Israel who did not even have the help of the US! Futhermore, instead of keeping all the land taken in this defensive war, Israel gave back 93% of it!

Then,

-On October 6, 1973 — Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar — Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel. The equivalent of the total forces of NATO in Europe were mobilized on Israel's borders.1 On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks. Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders were attacked by 80,000 Egyptians.

-At least nine Arab states, including four non-Middle Eastern nations, actively aided the Egyptian-Syrian war effort.


-Thrown onto the defensive during the first two days of fighting, Israel mobilized its reserves and eventually repulsed the invaders and carried the war deep into Syria and Egypt. The Arab states were swiftly resupplied by sea and air from the Soviet Union, which rejected U.S. efforts to work toward an immediate cease*fire. As a result, the United States belatedly began its own airlift to Israel. Two weeks later, Egypt was saved from a disastrous defeat by the UN Security Council, which had failed to act while the tide was in the Arabs' favor.

Quit your whining, and take a history lesson. Those "poor people" were driven from the land by their own aggression, and their refusal to accept UN partition.
 
Almost all the arab countries in the middle east ignored international law when they failed to recognize the right of the Jews to a state. The Palestinians would have gotten a state, too, in 1948, but they were too proud and hateful to accept a Jewish state, they wanted it all, and they still do. Now all they can do is blow up busses. Israel will destroy the leaders of such criminal operations, by whatever means available, whether they are in wheelchairs or not. It's a matter of pragmatism, not bravery. If Hamas was really brave they would organize every Palestinian into a non-violent march on Jerusalem like Dr. King and demand to negotiate a settlement with Israel once and for all.
 
it's all very simple. if you want to talk, we will talk. if you want to fight, we will fight. if you lose in the fight, don't whine for it is you who refuses to talk.

first arab leaderss launch wars of "extermination and annihalation" (48, 67, 73), as they put it, and then they complain when their objectives aren't met
1) Israel survives despite the war
2) the arab states lose land instead of gaining it (a direct result of their own aggression)
2) their civilians do get hurt (i suppose they weren't going to kill Israeli civilians)... or are civilians immune from flying bullets?

they have to
1) take responsibility for their actions
2) learn that fighting will lead to more fighting, and talking will lead to more talking... their choice
3) fighting is less and less acceptable in today's world because the west is becoming less and less tolerant to arab propaganda and to arab terrorism (or in other words, "we Jews control America")

so time to learn from your mistakes and improve the lives of everyone by doing some jaw jaw instead of war war
 
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The problem as I see it is that Israel claims it has to do what ever it has to because it is at war but wants the otherside to behave in a peaceful manner. One side can not be at war while the other side is at peace. Either both sides are at war or both sides are at peace. Bulldozing peoples homes is not conducive to a peaceful relationship.
 
One side can not be at war while the other side is at peace.
absolutely
which is why instead of sitting on its ass, the IAF and IDF are actually doing something

Either both sides are at war or both sides are at peace
exactly
we keep trying to explain it to our 'palestinian' peace partners

Bulldozing peoples homes is not conducive to a peaceful relationship
so is blowing people up :)
 
Placing all the blame on the other guy is not going to lead to a solution of the problem.
 
which is why both sides need to step up
what steps has the 'palestinians' leadership made to show good will?
 
otheadp said:
which is why both sides need to step up
what steps has the 'palestinians' leadership made to show good will?
Click to expand...

Whirlwind comments.... :eek:

Scene I:

Some scraggly Zionist thug in a dusty black hat and a Uzi slung over his shoulder comes onto your back 40 at 2:00 AM with a 1,000 year old "expired" lease to the land in his back pocket and a US supplied 60 ton caterpillar bull dozer spewing black smoke out its stack nearby and he gives you 15 minutes to get off "his" land as his other bearded buddies are reconnecting your precious water connectors to their trailers that they have positioned nearby.

You would then:

Scene II:

1. Smile, grab your kid by the hand and run for your life?!
2. Grab your rifle, kill his arse and call 911 to come drag off the carcass to the city dump?
3. Fight like hell as the thugs kill your dad, knock your mom's teeth out with a hickory trencheon and beat up or shoot your kids that are throwing stones at them, in SELF DEFENSE?

Show your "good will?" You mean by bending over and providing them with the vasaline, huh?

"Oh, otheadp, you have so much to learn about life in the Middle East bro." :rolleyes:

I lived in Israel for 18 months training IAF fighter pilots to FLY-FIGHT & WIN, in the early 1980's and the facts "On the ground" ( As Bush sez) are much "different!"

Whirlwind.....
 
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spidergoat said:
I disagree with your premise, and your numbers. Israel was fighting PLO terrorists in Lebanon. Terrorists that had no problem with killing and torturing civilians, and using them to hide behind.
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Whirlwind responds.... :eek:

Couldn't name any Arab or group of Arabs that killed 1,000 Jews, couldja? Didn't I tellya? :D

Even the inexcusable Abu Abbas killing of Klinghoffer and throwing him overboard into the mediterranean sea in 1988 involved "only" one Jew.

The Pasha disco killings at seaside Tel Aviv in 2001 by a Palestinain CRUISE BOMBER involved the death of 18 Jews, who were ultimately denied burial in Jewish cemetaries because, in fact, they were Russians who immigrated to Israel "posing" as Jews which they were not. Boy were the parents p!ssed at this denial of burial in Jewish cemetaries by the Zionist of Israel!

You wrote: "Killing and torturing civilians?"

I guess you didn't goto GOOGLE and type in "ISRAELS KHIAM TORTURE PRISON," didja? (You can lead a horse to water - but you can't make him drink!). :)

Whirlwind....
 
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spidergoat said:
Israel profoundly regrets the loss of human life at Kana and has thoroughly investigated this tragic incident which was caused, first and foremost, by the firing of Katyusha rockets and mortars by Hizbullah from a location in close proximity to the UN position.
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Spidergoat....

Rule #1, the IDF are liars and cheaters - so why believe them? An Army that BAITS & THEN SHOOTS CHILDREN THROWING STONES AT STEEL CLAD ISRAELI MERKAVA TANKS IS "JUST NO GOOD!"

In September, 2000, the IDF brutally massacred little 12 year old Palestinian child, Mohammed Al-Dura, and the ambulance driver that tried to save his life was also killed by the IDF. His father was seriously wounded.*

The IDF spent months trying to figure the triangulation of the bullet paths trying to prove the Palestinian's had murdered "their own kid!"

The Atlantic (magazine), in 2003 ran a pound of gibberish trying to 'support their fellow killer Jews."

But it was the Italian photog that took the photos of the "incident" that finally confirmed that the IDF had indeed shot little Mohammad Al-Dura dead and the IDF'ers were made to look like the liars and killers they are.

See: WWW.RememberThesechildren.org (Mohammed Al-Dura is listed as one of the 450+ children murdered by Israel's IDF through summer of 2003).

Whirlwind....

* In 2002 Al-Dura's dad was refused a visa by Israel to go to Egypt for continuing surgery because he was a "security risk!" So much for that democratc (small "d") 1/2 acre of Zionist bandits! :mad:

BTW: The UN Army base at Qana, Lebanon made frantic calls to the IDF that they were raining shells on civilians during the Israeli barrage - the IDF responded "2 hours later" after all were dead, to the affirmative.

PS: The PM of Israel refused to pay reparations for the dirt poor Palestinian's to bury their loved ones - Ronald Reagan THE BASS TERD urged "restraint!"
 
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