Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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posting one article and a few quotes from UN officials completely exposes the "misconception"

1) kids are recruited, as has repeatedly been shown, when kids were caught with explosive belts
2) kids are drilled these ideologies so at age of 12 they want to be a "martyr" to impress their parents
3) when you're raised in culture of murder, and the propaganda of the day is "Israelis eat babies", this is what you get

muhammad, why are you refusing to admit?
 
otheadp said:
posting one article and a few quotes from UN officials completely exposes the "misconception"

1) kids are recruited, as has repeatedly been shown, when kids were caught with explosive belts
2) kids are drilled these ideologies so at age of 12 they want to be a "martyr" to impress their parents
3) when you're raised in culture of murder, and the propaganda of the day is "Israelis eat babies", this is what you get

muhammad, why are you refusing to admit?
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well the same can be said for the Israelis if you get what im sayin. I mean joiing the Israeli Army as all able members of Israel have too, isnt that the same culture of hate. joining an occupation force, a colonial state perhaps???
 
otheadp said:
posting one article and a few quotes from UN officials completely exposes the "misconception"
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First Article :

Mohammed's playmates told the Star that he emerged as a ringleader in recent days, urging a gang of boys toward the firing lines, as near as possible to the gunmen of Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Islamic Jihad.

This does does not tells us that the militants from Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Islamic Jihad approved of this.

The rest just talk about Gaza children wanting to resist occupation, doesn't talk about brainwashing or the Militants actually using them as human shields.

This however could be one of the reasons why so many Palestinian children are being killed by the IDF.

I see no difference between my article and this one.

1) kids are recruited, as has repeatedly been shown, when kids were caught with explosive belts
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You have no proof whatsoever.

2) kids are drilled these ideologies so at age of 12 they want to be a "martyr" to impress their parents
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This quite contradicts your first article. Good Job!

3) when you're raised in culture of murder, and the propaganda of the day is "Israelis eat babies", this is what you get
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Dude, wake the fuck up, its from a Zionist website. :eek:
 
this is the chain of logic of an Islamist terrorist-sympathizer:

1) a website (or any source of information) has some news / reports / op-ed / facts
2) if it's contrary to '"palestinians" are glorious martyrs', it must be a "zionist" website
3) zionist by definition is synonymous with satanic evil, same goes with the website and the info on it.. i.e., the info is false.

using this model an analysis can be made about this site that i've linked in my prevous post

1.here's a quote:
Sacrificing Children

On March 30, a 16 year-old Palestinian girl named Ayat Akhras walked into a Jerusalem supermarket and detonated a bomb concealed under her clothing, killing two Israelis and wounding 22 others.

On April 23, three teenagers - Anwar Hamduna, Yusef Zakut, and Abu Nada from Gaza, attempted to crawl under the perimeter fence and attack the residents of the nearby Jewish community of Netzarim, only to be shot dead by guards. For over a month, Palestinian children as young as 10 barricaded themselves in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, alongside Palestinian gunmen.

In May a 16 year-old Palestinian boy was arrested in a taxi near Jenin with a bomb strapped to his body.

On June 13, a 15 year-old Palestinian girl, arrested for throwing a firebomb at IDF soldiers, admitted during interrogation that she had previously been recruited as a suicide bomber.

On July 9, Israeli security forces arrested another 15 year-old Palestinian girl who admitted to having agreed to carry out a suicide attack in Israel.
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2. another quote:
One favorite wall slogan reads: "Beware of death by natural causes."

Suicide bombing is considered a source of neighborhood pride, as streets are named after the perpetrators of these atrocities.
There is even a band named "The Martyrs," whose lyrics espouse the virtues of "sacrificing yourself for Allah." Under these cultural influences, many children readily admit that they want to become suicide bombers. Some draw pictures and fantasize about the day when they will achieve their goal.
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3. this doesn't show the "palestinians" in a very positive light, therefore this site must be "zionist". a conclusion can then be made: the info presented is wrong.

that's like a blanket argument - if u see something u don't like, brand it "zionist", and u don't have to address it

here's another slogan for terrorist-sympathizers: "beware of using brain - may hurt!"
 
Sacrificing Children

On March 30, a 16 year-old Palestinian girl named Ayat Akhras walked into a Jerusalem supermarket and detonated a bomb concealed under her clothing, killing two Israelis and wounding 22 others.

On April 23, three teenagers - Anwar Hamduna, Yusef Zakut, and Abu Nada from Gaza, attempted to crawl under the perimeter fence and attack the residents of the nearby Jewish community of Netzarim, only to be shot dead by guards. For over a month, Palestinian children as young as 10 barricaded themselves in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, alongside Palestinian gunmen.

In May a 16 year-old Palestinian boy was arrested in a taxi near Jenin with a bomb strapped to his body.

On June 13, a 15 year-old Palestinian girl, arrested for throwing a firebomb at IDF soldiers, admitted during interrogation that she had previously been recruited as a suicide bomber.

On July 9, Israeli security forces arrested another 15 year-old Palestinian girl who admitted to having agreed to carry out a suicide attack in Israel.
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First Incident

Proof that she was recruited by a Militant group not shown, would you care to show us what the militant group recruited her?

Second Incident

Again, can you show us any proof that Militant groups recruited them?

Kids barricaded themselves in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, alongside Palestinian gunmen? When was this?

Third Incident

Again, can you show us any proof that Militant groups recruited him?

Fourth Incident

Please give me a source.

Fifth Incident

Was she recruited? Source please...

Whats the whole point of this, we already are aware that Palestinian children are a part of the Palestinian resistance, are you dumb or what?

One favorite wall slogan reads: "Beware of death by natural causes."

Suicide bombing is considered a source of neighborhood pride, as streets are named after the perpetrators of these atrocities.
There is even a band named "The Martyrs," whose lyrics espouse the virtues of "sacrificing yourself for Allah." Under these cultural influences, many children readily admit that they want to become suicide bombers. Some draw pictures and fantasize about the day when they will achieve their goal.
Click to expand...

Again, Whats the whole point of this, we already are aware that Palestinian children are a part of the Palestinian resistance, are you dumb or what?

There isn't anything negative about this, this is part of the daily Jihad (struggle).

About your whinning about your zionist sites, i don't have time for that, discuss the topic and not zionist sites, would you rather stop humiliating your self and stop this discussion?
 
Spidergoat what you said in your post admitting what Israel does is completely contradictory to what you have been saying for hundreds of posts.

you cant keep your lies up forever i suppose.
 
I support Israel because I think a Nationalist state, especially a National Socialist (Nazi) state like Israel, is the right of every ethnic group.

Israel and the Palestinians will have to fight it out.

The rest of us should stop interfering and sending money to one side or another. May the best man win.
 
The issue is not 1948 its 1967, and Israel agreed to have the West Bank and Gaza not under her control. Now that Israel has illegally broken that cease fire agreement for over 30 years, and has illegally annexed their land, and their lives she can expect no peace.
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Who broke the cease fire? Terrorists. Israel must defend it's citizens- that's the minimum requirement for a state.

Some Jews have opposed Zionism for esoteric religious reasons, but they are also the ones who fuck through a hole in a sheet, so I wouldn't take them too seriously.

and according to their own religion that is the way it should be until the appropriate time.
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...and Islam forbids suicide, so does that make suicide bombers not true muslims? Religion is an adaptable thing.

No because Germans were not forced out of their homes in the West, or in the East to either side.
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Displacement did happen if you happened to be caught on the wrong side of the wall. I'm not saying it was right, but in the aftermath of world conflict, sometimes an individual's right to the land they grew up on is comprimised for greater political reasons.

Sorry but the only reason why you are a family is because of your religion, reject that you aren’t family anymore no matter how much you may like to dream you are.
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Nonsense, family relations are independent of religion.

There are ideological freaks on both sides, I think the majority of Israelis just want peace and security.


They didn’t in the 90’s and what did they get out of it? Not much. Same goes for Israel, why is occupying, illegally colonizing land that is not hers, and building walls on another people’s land?
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I don't think Arafat really tried to make peace. As for the wall, I think it's better than bullets and bombs.
 
Who broke the cease fire? Terrorists. Israel must defend its citizens- that's the minimum requirement for a state.

Firstly I don’t know what you are talking about “terrorists” in 1967? They had nothing to do with it because those organizations didn’t even exist. Israel did have a right to defend itself that is true, nor have I denied that. Israel is (sadly) considered a nation among nations, but that doesn’t excuse the illegal annexation of land that is not yours. The war of 1967 is not the problem the problem is that Israel forcibly annexed, and colonized land that still does not belong to her.

Some Jews have opposed Zionism for esoteric religious reasons, but they are also the ones who fuck through a hole in a sheet, so I wouldn't take them too seriously.

Why should I take you seriously? Excuse me but please appeal to ridicule to further your own ends you “anti-Semite”. You see this is the perfect example of a Zionist anti-judeosemite, it’s so sad to see you hate your original culture so very much.

...and Islam forbids suicide, so does that make suicide bombers not true muslims? Religion is an adaptable thing.

Not really, Islam doesn’t forbade martyrdom for the religion does it? There is a difference; religion for Muslims defines Muslims as one. But Syria, Iraq, Egypt, etc aren’t founded on Islam; they are founded on Arabism. Something that is impossible for Jews to have. To compare Egypt to Israel for instances be as logical as your posts.

Displacement did happen if you happened to be caught on the wrong side of the wall.

Sorry but the East did everything in its power to prevent ppl from leaving so no, don’t talk more gibberish. Secondly the ppl who did leave East Germany did so voluntarily, and without the threat of violence until 1961 when such transits were forbidden by a physical separation. There is no comparison to the Isr/Pal situation.

I'm not saying it was right, but in the aftermath of world conflict, sometimes an individual's right to the land they grew up on is comprimised for greater political reasons.

So you admit that what was done is immoral yet still support it? Isn’t that a definition of pure evil?

Nonsense, family relations are independent of religion.

Yes if you were really a family, not a collection of like minded people. Jews cannot be family because they don’t have a singular genetic bond to each other that Christians and Muslims don’t have. Note I used two other religions not breeds to discuss this situation.

There are ideological freaks on both sides, I think the majority of Israelis just want peace and security.

So do the majority of Pals, polls have suggested as such. The best solution of course is a one state solution.

I don't think Arafat really tried to make peace. As for the wall, I think it's better than bullets and bombs.

Arafat did some pretty momentous things, he ceded the right of Israel to exist, he gave up Pals claim on all the land of Palestine, and more. Things that were not easy to do, I don’t think either side wants peace because they realize having it will make their ideologues weaker in the end. The wall, its illegal, its sad, and it will become a symbol for Israeli repression, and imperialism (nice land grab). Israel will suffer more in the end for its actions then the Pals. Israel doesn’t exist outside of ideas; Palestine exists out of material reality.
 
The war of 1967 is not the problem the problem is that Israel forcibly annexed, and colonized land that still does not belong to her.
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It doesn't belong to any other state entity either, it exists in legal limbo. Before Israel it also didn't belong to anyone, most Palestinians were the equivalent of squatters. It's like some homless guy defending his little plot under a bridge, because he was there as long as he can remember.

Why should I take you seriously? Excuse me but please appeal to ridicule to further your own ends you “anti-Semite”. You see this is the perfect example of a Zionist anti-judeosemite, it’s so sad to see you hate your original culture so very much.
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You don't have too, but you chose too, I'm just a disembodied voice on the internet. I'm not an anti-semite, I just poke fun at religious literalists, the orthodox movement is fairly recent and a minority among Jewish people. I don't hate them either, like Jesus, I take a larger, humanist view.

So you admit that what was done is immoral yet still support it? Isn’t that a definition of pure evil?
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I didn't say immoral, just that the rights of the majority sometime supercede the rights of an individual, like with the incarceration of Typhoid Mary.

Yes if you were really a family, not a collection of like minded people. Jews cannot be family because they don’t have a singular genetic bond to each other that Christians and Muslims don’t have.
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I'm talking about literal families, not some kind of metaphor. In the same family, some people are religious, and some are not. That some Jews have independant views on Judaism, or even convert to another religion doesn't take away from the fact that the majority do feel a religious connection to Israel based on Judaism. By the way the genetic similarity is also there, but also not universal.

The best solution of course is a one state solution.
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That doesn't seem to be the consensus among most world leaders. It would in effect, destroy Israel and replace it with a majority Palestinian state.

I should say that although I support the existence of Israel, and their right to fight terrorism, it doesn't mean that they never made mistakes, or that I support everything it does. The US supports Israel, not because of some shady Zionist influence, or wacko Christian ideas, but because they are a democratic country, with a free press and fair elections.
 
M-16,

Could your translate that, I have no clue what that link is about, mainly because I can't read Hebrew.
 
Stormtroops: Take the Slides in the Playground!
By Aviv Lavi
Haaretz (in Hebrew)

June 26, 2002

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?itemNo=180538

A(name of person, i guess they decided to not reveal her real name)., resident of Tel Aviv, arrived at the end of the year celebration
in the municipal preschool facility which both of her daughters
attend. Everything was very nice until the ceremony began: to her
astonishment she saw the teacher standing the preschoolers in rows,
dressing them up in what looked like IDF uniforms, and marching them
along as they chanted "left right left" "attention!" and "at ease".
The children accompanied the military parade by loud singing:
"Soldiers of Israel, marching and guarding by day and by night".

The preschool which A.'s daughters attend is not the only one that
chose to mark the end of the year in this manner. At another
preschool, in a small city near Tel-Aviv, the end of the year party
included the storming of a target with (toy) swords, and the
children there also recited texts about their being warriors in the
service of the state of Israel. A. says that she didn't send her
daughters to preschool so they could be made into soldiers at age
five.

The spokesman for the Tel Aviv municipality states that the source
of the military spirit that hovered over the end of the year events
was not directed by the supervisor of kindergartens and preschools
or by any other official person. On the other hand, the municipality
does not tend to get involved in such cases: "we are not familiar
with the phenomenon. The content of end of the year parties is
determined jointly by the teachers and the preschool's parent
committee."
 
It comes from an Israeli website, so don't attack the source, im saying this to the wannabe Zionists in this board.
 
WellCookedFetus said:
and how does that have anything to do with Zionism?
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Are you kidding me? Zionism isn't even being talked about, whats being talked about is what these Zionists are doing to their children in school.
 
Who to say their Zionists, they could just be really militant. Do all Zionist do that? Is it statistically shown that Israeli schools are training their preschoolers to be little killing machines? If their one thing being in liberal arts major (or at least in the world of Mr. G I’m a liberal arts major) has taught me nothing is true until proven so, and virtually nothing is universal.
 
I am aware that there is not much proof to show that this happens in all Israeli schools, but im working on that.

Im going to brush off your questioning of wether they are Zionists or not, because it clearly points it out.
 
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