Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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i should restate what i said : to the Israelis it's not about ethnicity or religion. to Hamas and co. it's about ethnicity and religion. they hate the ethnicity and the religion. if they're freedom fighters, they can only attain their idea of "freedom" if they defeat the religion and ethnicity they're fighting, and "liberate" the land from that enemy religion and enemy ethnicity.

once Muslim fundamentalists the world over, who have never been to Israel or have never met a "Palestinian" or an Israeli, who hate Israel so much, realize what it's about, they'll stop hating Israel. now, all that has to happen is for their media start dissiminating truth and reduce their bias

al-Jazeera for example is openly rooting for "Palestine". they have a section on their website called "Palestine: the people and the land", giving the "Palestinians" a de facto "right" status in the conflict.

if one wants to argue that Israel has also a pro-Israel news service,
* it may be so but there is less bias
* when comparing Israeli news broadcasts, compare them to PLO broadcasts only. al-Jazeera is a 3rd-party news corporation. they should be neutral.

the Guardian, a "white", "westerner" paper is not automatically pro-US or pro-Australia policies. it's not even pro-England policies (lol) so spare me the "well they're Arab too so they support each other" argument

anyway, there was a wonderful editorial cartoon in the Arab News website a few months ago. the pic showed that the Arab mind understands only force... (from the authorities that is)
so in a sense, it is chained. once the chains are off, once debate is not quagmired with arrests and witchhunts, the Arab mind will free itself from group-think and the media will start reporting more objectively, which in turn will reduce radicalism and pure hate of people you've never met before, and the deifying of other people whom you've also never met before
 
I think you are talking about the Druze…
and the Bedouins, and the Christian Arab Israelis, and the Muslim Arab Israelis
http://www.ishmaelkhaldi.com


as for your quote.. man, you quote one guy with one opinion based on the Ben-Gurion days (50+ years ago).. please.
 
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and the Bedouins, and the Christian Arab Israelis, and the Muslim Arab Israelis

I am certain it’s not the Bedouins:

The Bedouin, as a group have been on the bottom rung of Israel’s social and economic ladder…the Bedouin of the Negev (in contrast to those of the Galilee) have become the most impoverished group in Israel with the highest rate of unemployment. Their diminishing life chances have precipitated a growing alienation from Israeli society and state. (Kimmerling 183)
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Arabs in Israel cannot buy land:

To block Arab access to land, the Jewish National Fund…established formal standards officially forbidding the leasing of its land to non-Jews (Kimmerling 194)
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That’s apartheid, period.

as for your quote.. man, you quote one guy with one opinion based on the Ben-Gurion days (50+ years ago).. please.

It’s a fact, and it’s in place today, stop refuting the messenger like “I’mz so zmart, it’s all Arbs jies! The Guardin is own by arbs!
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It’s pathetic already, Israel is racist towards her Arab population. Too bad for Israel that her Arab population is growing at a alarming 3.75% a year! 2015-20 the end of Israel.
 
Putting it very bluntly, Israel is a nation forged on Arab land and populated of people not of the region. It is the creation of a state for the Jewish people on Arab soil.

Take a look at this page:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

Using that as reference, we can see that upon the fall of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, two separate states were proposed. So what happened here? Ideally - in my opinion - Israel should never have been created. However, as it stands, it has been created, and is now an established nation. Okay fine, cool. So what happened to the two separate nations? Why is Israel continually opressing what remains of Palestine? They have been stooped very low over the decades, but I think it is very clear that Israel has, and is continuing to annex the Arab nation. That right there is a war discriminating on the grounds of race, religion and nationality all in one, with Israel leading the way.

My opinion? The UN needs to step in and recreate the original two nations. Tell them look, this is Israel, this is Palestine. And then enforce it. Unfortunately, such a solution may not be possible. Just how much can the UN really do? Israel and Palestine certainly aren't going to resolve this on thier own anytime soon.
 
Can't work. We have two different people who want their own countries and who seem to have no respect whatsoever for the other. Perhaps later down the line such a solution will be viable. In the meanwhile, lets be realistic...A unified Israel/Palestine won't work for a while. Just look at the situation over there.

How do you tell Israel to give the Palestinian people back their rights, when the country was forged to give the Zionists a home - and we know how Arab/Jew relations go. How do you tell Palestine to just cooperate with Israel when they lost their indigineous land to people who want them gone?
 
Can't work. We have two different people who want their own countries and who seem to have no respect whatsoever for the other.

Does this ring a bell for yah?

MandelaKlerk.1.gif


Anything is possible when both sides recognize that they cannot survive without each other, and with enough international pressure, and with enough internal pressure as well it can be achieved. South Africa has proven to be the model on which Palestine/Israel can follow. It will take decades of international rule over the region (direct UN control) and de-indoctrination but it can be done.

In the meanwhile, lets be realistic...A unified Israel/Palestine won't work for a while. Just look at the situation over there.

I look, and realize that the loser in the end is Israel history is not on her side, it wasn’t on the Apartheidist’s side in 1994. History repeats itself…let’s hope. Let’s be more realistic a Palestinian state is a dead deal, with the land grab with the wall, with the constant meddling of Israel and her occupation and the fragmented political situation within the Palestinian occupied territories I don’t see a viable Palestinian state. With a Pal. State any military situation with Israel would be an international war, and could be devastating for all of humanity. Sorry but to me one state is the one way to create peace.

How do you tell Israel to give the Palestinian people back their rights, when the country was forged to give the Zionists a home - and we know how Arab/Jew relations go. How do you tell Palestine to just cooperate with Israel when they lost their indigineous land to people who want them gone?

You don’t tell, you command it’s time for the international community to get some balls.
 
Well hey, if it can work I'm willing to go with the one nation deal. I just see international efforts siding with Israel rather than a unified solution. We'll see how it goes.
 
I just see international efforts siding with Israel rather than a unified solution.

Israel really doesn’t have much a choice, considering that eventually within the next two decades she will cease being a Zionist state. It really depends on how Israel wants to die, either with a blaze of glory killing everyone, further expelling Arabs from their homes creating a war with her neighboring Arab states who can’t support that huge influx, and for sure the EU imposing all forms of sanctions and most likely a UN total sanctions regime against Israel. Or the best solution for Israel to concede that the state is over, and try to salvage their lives, and their economy by joining into a federation with the Arabs and into a democracy after many years of international rule. Israel cannot survive forever, and she will have to decide her own fate. That’s what happens when your state is based on lies…
 
Kiwi123 said:
ter3614.jpg


... because the checkpoints and security is for everyones sake.
But Racist Arab leaders are inciting their population to TRY and look at this as oppression CRAP.
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Here is more:


Here they give water to a wanna be MASS MURDERER Terrorist, captured.

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DaneMark said:
Wrong, it is not 'resistance', it is lowlife use of own kids as weapons, and hypocrisy when they whine on cameras.
They are the villain, and not Israeli defenders that are confronted with the moral problem of mixing kids with adult machin gunners, and Arab parents know Israelis' dilemna, use it, abuse it, and become the actual Goliath against Israelis no matter their military tool.
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I get sick when these radical moms whine on cameras, what a self persecuted cult.
 
otheadp said:
Horrible torture of Palestinians at IDF checkpoints





some more grusome photos of IDF torturers may be found here.

i think the "point of discussion" is obvious. the Arab media's version of events at checkpoints is lies and distortions, vile propaganda, demonization, and ... here's an overused word for the cynics: biased reporting!

sure some abuse happens sometimes, but it's forbidden and is punished. just as there are bad apples in any civilian police force in any given city, just as there are some deserters in any army, just as there are some kids in every high school that do coke

however, most cops on every police force are good, most soldiers in armies around the world are not traitors, and most kids in highschool don't do coke.
just as the above is true, same thing for IDF soldiers at checkpoints whose sole job is to prevent suicide bombers from massacaring bus riding kids.

after 4 years of intifada and a demonization media campagin, the truth is finally starting to come out in this "Palestinian" terror campaign
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Is there any doubts who the heroes are?, Hint for the perplexed ... it's not those that threatened this woman and others' life...
 
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Axes said:


I served a few months near shhem in checkpost "avtashim" (guard duty), one of the most boring experiences in my life. Never have I witnessed any agression more than pushes or harsh words in extreme, but it was a relatively quiet sector at the time (2001), so im pretty sceptical about this picture.

I have no idea about the last link you sent me, it might be anything. Still, even if I get to the bottom of this, you will believe what you want to, so it doesnt really matter. Your'e mind was made up years ago.
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Well said, and it looks like another usual typical staged thing anyway.
 
Some of those pictures look very posed. Almost as if somebody is trying to use them for propaganda...
 
They are taken by the parents, it would be sicking if the people who do this lived a normal life, but Palestinians dont.

People like Kiwi are like hungry animals, they would search for things that make the Palestinians look bad and will spread it around.
 
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