Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

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Preacher_X said:
oh my God what bullshit by everybody.

YOU ARE ALL victims of ZIONIST propaganda!!!.

look up the history of child suicide bombers... there are 0!!!!!

but people think that there a child suicide bombers and that is complete bullshit, it is due to zionist propaganda.

hitler says "spread a lie enough time, it becomes reailty"

well i guess its working, Zionist news dont actually say there are child suicide bombers they just say things that may lead you to think that and will show you pics of kids with guns and shit.

but look it up... THERE ARE NO CHILD SUICIDE BOMBERS... EVER!!!!

the only ever case of a child suicide bomber was that of Husam Abdullah. first Israel said he was 10, then they later said he was 14 and then finally it was revealed he was 16. many journalists are suspicious about this case though and say it could be a set up, as there are doubts to how the news crew came straight away at the (sealed) checkpoint and during interviewing he stated wrong and sterotypical views on Jihad and its rewards. also it comes right at the time Israel was coming under heavy critiscim for the deaths of infants in various incidents in raffah.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad all have strict policies against using children in atatcks.
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Let me guess, you read about it in the newspapers or something...
All you're saying is BULLSHIT.
Do you live in Israel, or are you just guessing facts?
Next time when you see a dead palastinian boy just ask
yourself: WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING THERE, WHEN HE
SHOUD HAVE BEEN IN A SAFE PLACE? - INSTEAD OF THROWING ROCKS ON IDF SOLDIERS.
The IDF would never kill kids in porpuse... Why should we?
Its happening because of those damn terror groups.
They are forcing us to shoot in civill places and hiding behind
weman and children, just as human shields.
But go ahead, belive to pictures and all of your craps.
"victims of ZIONIST propaganda" ?.. - You are too stupid to be true.
 
aaa said:
WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING THERE, WHEN HE
SHOUD HAVE BEEN IN A SAFE PLACE? - INSTEAD OF THROWING ROCKS ON IDF SOLDIERS.
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erm, maybe he was at his house, when Israeli bulldozers came and gave him less then 2 minutes to get out. or perhaps he was a bystander when Israel lanuched another random collective punishment spree.

aaa said:
The IDF would never kill kids in porpuse
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then why dont Israel let foriegn countries monitor Israels milatry actions, why have Israelis on many occassions attacked UN staff and foreign journalists?

so i guess all of these were more of those "Accidents"

since 2001 (children):

- 910 Palastinian children have been killed by Israelis

- 9,500 Palastinian children have been seriously injured by Israeli forces

- 2,000 children are being held captive by Israeli forces and remember Israel is the only country in the world with LEAGALISED TORTURE

since 2001 (children and adults):

- 2,934 killed by Israelis

- 38,500 serioulsy injured beacasue of israeli forces

- 2,500 permantly disabled by the IDF (israeli "defense" force)

- 308 died in assasination attacks (152 were bystanders)

- 25 medical personnal and 12 journalists killed while on duty

- 103 have died beacsue of delays in one of the 750 checkpoints in the occupied lands

aaa said:
The IDF would never kill kids in porpuse... Why should we?
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maybe becasue you have a leader like this:

Sharon,

"I don’t know something called International Principles. I vow that I’ll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian women and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child’s existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."
Ariel Sharon In an interview with General Ouze Merham, when questioned about the loss of Zionist soldiers during the massacres of Rafah and Khan Yunis in 1956.
 
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Preacher X, that quote supposedly of Sharon's is a fabrication, but you'll believe anything, won't you, as long as it fits in with your diatribe.

Isreals torture den
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The Palestinians, and indeed the entire Islamic world's record on torture is horrendous, so don't even start.
 
in refutation of Othedheaps whol UN house size thing...

http://www.schnews.org.uk/sotw/palestine.htm

Othedheap, above is the testimony of workers and press who have worked in the West Bank and Gaza, this is what a nurse said about the refugee camps.

"no tents or shacks, but small stone buildings - 3m x 3m units per family. Eleven thousand people live in 1km square. Everywhere you go there is art work, murals and graffiti on the walls. Art lives on. Every street is covered with posters of martyrs - those killed while fighting, or just victims of the Israeli OCCUPATION force." 0
 
Preacher X,

Stop being so naive...
None of your answers are even close to be true.
You talk so much about the "ZIONISTIM" people...
So, let me tell you something about your poor innocent palastinian people...

They are murderers, not "Free Fighteres".
And don't think they are defending themselves... they are killing for a reason.
They hate us, even before the occupation... before 67', 48'... (read some history)
You think the "Hamas" is a peace organization?...well wake up! face the real world!
They don't want us, not just in Gaza - in the whole country.
They commit terror actions against weman, children...not just soldiers or "military targets".
But don't take my word, ask Hatuel.
He lost his pregnant wife and their four daughters, aged 2-11, when Palestinian terrorists shot and killed them at point-blank range.
Where is the "military target"?.. Where is the "self-defence"?..
You can't explain, or excuse that, can you?
They are beasts.
They collect body parts of our dead soldiers (and even demanded
some things before bringing them back, what a shame).
You see... not like you, I don't need fault pictures to see the truth, I live in the truth
day after day.
People like you know nothing about this, yet they blame us in
war crimes and crimes against humanity... I think the world would
be a better place if you all would be minding your own buisness.
 
ok, I've been away for a while.
1st off:
this lumping of the isr/pal conflict in one thread trivialises a very important issue.

2ndly i think aaa needs some educating....sigh....oh well here we go again
 
aaa said:
Preacher X,

Stop being so naive...
None of your answers are even close to be true.
You talk so much about the "ZIONISTIM" people...
So, let me tell you something about your poor innocent palastinian people...

They are murderers, not "Free Fighteres".
And don't think they are defending themselves... they are killing for a reason.
They hate us, even before the occupation... before 67', 48'... (read some history)
You think the "Hamas" is a peace organization?...well wake up! face the real world!
They don't want us, not just in Gaza - in the whole country.
They commit terror actions against weman, children...not just soldiers or "military targets".
But don't take my word, ask Hatuel.
He lost his pregnant wife and their four daughters, aged 2-11, when Palestinian terrorists shot and killed them at point-blank range.
Where is the "military target"?.. Where is the "self-defence"?..
You can't explain, or excuse that, can you?
They are beasts.
They collect body parts of our dead soldiers (and even demanded
some things before bringing them back, what a shame).
You see... not like you, I don't need fault pictures to see the truth, I live in the truth
day after day.
People like you know nothing about this, yet they blame us in
war crimes and crimes against humanity... I think the world would
be a better place if you all would be minding your own buisness.
Click to expand...

You talk so much about the "ZIONISTIM" people...
Click to expand...
ZIONISM, Z I O N I S M. get it right.

They are murderers, not "Free Fighteres".
Click to expand...

1) your perception, based on no factual information just subjective conjecture AND indoctrinated perjudice DOES NOT EQUATE TO REALITY ok?
get that straight first of all.

2) if they are murderers, they are murderers on THEIR soil in THEIR land .
killing those who illeagally occupy you land is not murder
get that straight too chump.


And don't think they are defending themselves
Click to expand...
LMAO!!!
do you actually re read this slop before you hit enter?
they are not defending themselves???????????????
yes off course those daily raids over gaza by apppache helicopters + f16 jets is all fabrication.
the bulldozers are all lies, the snipers daily picking off palestinians is all a laugh, the tanks are there to protect the people of rafah right???

They hate us, even before the occupation... before 67', 48'... (read some history)
Click to expand...

US? who us? define "us".
history? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! this coming from somebody who can hardly spell and put together a cohesive sentence.


They don't want us, not just in Gaza - in the whole country
Click to expand...

du huh....do the words "illeagal occupation" mean anything to you????????? :rolleyes:

They commit terror actions against weman, children...not just soldiers or "military targets".
Click to expand...

as do the IDF, but the IDF have tanks, appaches, f16, and million $ investment from america + western pro israel media to force feed the slop on the sheep who lap it up (seems to have worked on you)
 
"killing those who illeagally occupy you land is not murder"
...NOT? even if they are killing an innocent israeli boy who has
nothing to do with it?
perhaps they thought he was an apppache helicopter, or maybe a tank.
maybe the reason they killed him was because they thought he was
a sniper.
but that's not reasonable, since he was only 3 years old boy, sleeping in his own bed.
they killed him while he was still asleep, and you salute them.

i have a question for you: have you ever been in Gaza?
 
Israel: Strikes to Silence Palestinian Media
(Jerusalem, July 2, 2004) --The Israeli military’s destruction of a Palestinian media office in Gaza City Monday night had no justification under international law, Human Rights Watch said today. The helicopter gunship attack was the third air strike against Palestinian media in the past two months.

“The clear intent of these attacks is to silence local Palestinian media,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa Division. “These senseless strikes must stop.”

According to eyewitnesses interviewed by Human Rights Watch, the attack took place around 10:45 pm on June 28 on an 11-story building in the center of Gaza City that houses the offices of local media, as well as CNN, BBC, al-Jazeera and German ARD Television. Three missiles struck and destroyed the al-Jeel press agency on the third floor, empty at the time, and a fourth hit the floor above. The attack lightly injured two Palestinian workers and damaged several other offices in the building. Neither eyewitnesses nor the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) reported any gunfire or hostilities from the building.
 
aaa said:
Preacher X,
They hate us, even before the occupation... before 67', 48'... (read some history)
Click to expand...

ok, ill study some history...

under Arab rule and then later Ottomon rule Jews, Christians and Muslims lived side by side and worshipped toghether in peace. Jews were allowed to live normally in peace and worship freely even after the crusaders, Muslims even helped jews against the Crusaders. Ottomons used a "national system" for jews and christians so they could live in peace.

but after 1890 Zionism began and arab-jew hostilities began and in 1948 the Israelis ste up their state by driving away all of the Palestinians. they did not use the "national system" or anything like that and the victims of the Nazis became like the Nazis.

Israel set up their state despite every sigle asian, arabian, and african country refused (except 3). the UN partition for the state of Israel was forced on weaker countries and used by more powerful countries as an agent to dominate the Middle East. Jews still defied the resolution. they took more land then was allowed. they captured land also. they invaded Lebonan, Syria, Egypt and other countries outside of Israel. they have broke more UN resloutions then any other country, they have set up an aptharied system replacing the Ottomon national system.

Jews started this off not the Palestinians
 
aaa said:
"killing those who illeagally occupy you land is not murder"
...NOT? even if they are killing an innocent israeli boy who has
nothing to do with it?
perhaps they thought he was an apppache helicopter, or maybe a tank.
maybe the reason they killed him was because they thought he was
a sniper.
but that's not reasonable, since he was only 3 years old boy, sleeping in his own bed.
they killed him while he was still asleep, and you salute them.

i have a question for you: have you ever been in Gaza?
Click to expand...

aaa, you're completely failing to grasp the true + WIDER perspective of the situation, and instead of analysing the issues dialectically all you end up doing is engaging in a competition of "who's lost more kids"

for every isr kid you hold up and show, I can give you 10 palestinian kids in reply....so back to square one isn't it?

I could babble on all day with you holding up examples of palestinian kids, I could show you picture after picture after picture but what's the point?

i) this thread would just go on to page 10,000!
ii) and more importantly you will not have moved away one inch from the indocrinated biassed view that you have unfortunately been brought up with.

here, if you want cold hard numbers on fatalities please have a look at this:

http://www.phrmg.org/

once we've gone past this silly tit for tat game of "who has lost more" maybe we can move on to analysing the issues objectively + dialectically

if so let me know I'd be more than happy to engage in a discussion with you.
 
re: jews are hypocrites"

good grief! 28 pages and STILL the basics have NOT yet been grasped by you people! once and for all zionists are NOT jews , judaism is OPPOSED to zionism

please read AND absorb the following:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/


http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm

http://www.eccmei.net/j/



34.jpg


ABOVE: ORTHODOX JEWS JOIN PROTEST IN VIENNA
 
When aaa asked "have you ever been in Gaza?" I was reminded not only of that ghetto, but also of other places I've lived near, where the same syndrome has played out. Although we often discuss the cycle of mideast viciousness as unique, it really isn't. Abrupt settlements, and accompanying displacement/disenfranchisement of populations have always resulted in similar atrocity. Americans particularly, if they look into the history of their own country, can gain some insight from similar events in their own environs.

I now live a few miles from Cherry Valley, NY. In learning about the Indian Wars across the present USA, where the same vicious game was played out, there are many very close analogues to the Stern Gang, Haganah, IDF, Hebollah, Hamas, to superpower flame-fanners and to any other Mideast players you care to compare. Americans live near their own Gazas, even right over the bones of injustice and genocide.

Discomfort and ignorance about America's past is a significant part of Americans' blind spot about what is occuring in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Learning about American history in detail can do much to stimulate a deeper understanding of what is happening in Israel/Palestine now. The whole world's been to Gaza at one time or another, but we're nearing a state of societal evolution where the recurrring nightmare is unacceptable in Israel, in Sudan, in Northern Iraq, Kashmere, and elsewhere. the solution is in confronting our own demons, and not externalizing a common and recurring human plague that it is within our power to abolish forever.
 
Preacher_X said:
ok, ill study some history...

Jews started this off not the Palestinians
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study some more.
you are wrong, the Palestinians started.

here are some facts:

Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest.

In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

Regarding the Palestinian children that are killed - for each Palestinian CHILD that is killed due to attacking Israelis the Palestinian authority offers a few thousand dollars, and a bit less for just injuries, needles to say, the parents never get the money for sending out their children, the children are under no circumstances innocent, they attack Israeli people and the worst thing is something that is known about Palestinians, Hamas and Jihad is that they hide behind women and children and fire from there.

Israel is not to blame for the current situation, Israel does one thing, and one thing only, and that is defend itself from enemies, there is a reason that the army is called the ISRAELI DEFNCE FORCE, and it is very simple - THEY DO NOT PROVOKE OR START WARS, any country would do the same, if not worse.
 
"victims of the Nazis became like the Nazis"...
comparing the jews (or the IDF) to the Nazis is unfair and untrue.
 
outlandish said:
for every isr kid you hold up and show, I can give you 10 palestinian kids in reply...
Click to expand...

you are missing the point.
you can keep blaming israel on everything but the palestinians brought
that on themselves.
but, if you think otherwise, go ahead and proove it.
the only reason the IDF is operating in palestinian territories
is to defend the israeli citizens, i can't see another reason... can you?
 
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