Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict
- Thread starter goofyfish
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No, please don't ban or disrespect him/her. If there is going to be fairness, we need to hear everything aaa has to say. So, say something insightful on your next post, because I am watching you, Jew.
footnote: B4 someone flies off the handle, please recognise that I could have used the word Scot or Englishman, or Tinker, tailor, sodier sailor as a form of address. I want to hear something brilliant from this Jew, and here is an opportunity to take or leave.
footnote: B4 someone flies off the handle, please recognise that I could have used the word Scot or Englishman, or Tinker, tailor, sodier sailor as a form of address. I want to hear something brilliant from this Jew, and here is an opportunity to take or leave.
footnote: B4 someone flies off the handle, please recognise that I could have used the word Scot or Englishman
And yet, you never do. Never have I seen you point out someones nationality/religion in this way (ie "stupid muslim", "try me, spaniard") apart from towards the jewish members of this board. Add to that the fact that you never stand up when people on this board speak racially towards jews, yet when its directed at muslims, there will be no end to your'e blabber. Most people arnt fooled by this show of one sided humanity.
In responce to preacher and aaa's comments, the truth lies somewere in the middle, sadly no side sees it, since in long term conflicts every side develops his own philosophy about the conflict. the more fanatical representatives of both parties in this forum prove to us that there is no short term solution. Separation, even forced, must be implied and supported by the world community. In the future, once that is achieved, negotiations can commence about a peacefull settlement.
And yet, you never do. Never have I seen you point out someones nationality/religion in this way (ie "stupid muslim", "try me, spaniard") apart from towards the jewish members of this board. Add to that the fact that you never stand up when people on this board speak racially towards jews, yet when its directed at muslims, there will be no end to your'e blabber. Most people arnt fooled by this show of one sided humanity.
In responce to preacher and aaa's comments, the truth lies somewere in the middle, sadly no side sees it, since in long term conflicts every side develops his own philosophy about the conflict. the more fanatical representatives of both parties in this forum prove to us that there is no short term solution. Separation, even forced, must be implied and supported by the world community. In the future, once that is achieved, negotiations can commence about a peacefull settlement.
It is not bigoted to call someone a Jew, or to ask for their opinion as a Jew. I wrote in defense of aaa, and encouraged him/her to contribute more. I also made a backhanded attempt to illustrate the distracting hair-trigger to make accusations of anti-judeosemitism. Hey, Jude: If you are a Jew, or if you like Jews, as I do, then it is important to get beyond the hypersensitivity to the use of the word Jew.
As for segregation, it only prolongs conflict. Israel is inevitably going to be forced by the world outside to conform with basic standards of civil rights. The better way is for Israelis to reach a concensus that Arabs deserve equal rights within Israel "proper" and improper, regardless of what Jewish or Arab terrorists do or have done. It is pure deception to demand that a conflict end before working concertedly for its resolution. This conflict will only be resolved when Jews are welcome throughout the region again, because they have learned to live among Arabs without segregation. Jewish apartheid is wrong, and must end.
As for segregation, it only prolongs conflict. Israel is inevitably going to be forced by the world outside to conform with basic standards of civil rights. The better way is for Israelis to reach a concensus that Arabs deserve equal rights within Israel "proper" and improper, regardless of what Jewish or Arab terrorists do or have done. It is pure deception to demand that a conflict end before working concertedly for its resolution. This conflict will only be resolved when Jews are welcome throughout the region again, because they have learned to live among Arabs without segregation. Jewish apartheid is wrong, and must end.
aaa said:
listen up aaa, I've so far treated you with respect and tolerated your ignorance and given you clear incisive + FACTUAL replies, but you obviously haven't read them.
Being ignorant is one thing, but being completely blinkered and narrow minded and blatantly refusing to accept FACTS is another
started WHAT?? you cannot start occupation + brutality + opression SITTING IN YOUR OWN LAND get this one simple crucial fact in your thick skull man.
your anthropological + historical knowledge beggars belief, form this moment forward I ban you form using the word FACT.
being diselled from your land DOES NOT TAKE AWAY OR MITIGATE YOUR INHERENT RIGHT TO THE LAND YOU ARE INDIGINOUS TO capiche??? get THAT simple basic fact too.
OK using your bullshit figures I can still slap your face..... 634 to 1099? 465 years on that land??? and they STILL have less rights to that land than some germanic/slav euro wannabes who stole the land in 1948????
also the crusades didnt magically make the indiginous peoples of that area disappear.
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aaa said:
do you think before hitting enter + posting this horseshit on here + insulting my intelligence?????
no my friend, it is you missing the point
WTF???
now you're really trying my patience man.
you have no concept of distinguishing CAUSE + EFFECT
AGAIN:
1) how can the pal START the issue when the issue is illeagal occupation of thier land??
2) you cannot BRING ABOUT OPPRESSION + OCCUPATION UPON YOURSELF YOU!GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD
1) I dont need to PROVE what is historically and FACTUALLY correct.
2) I have PROVED it.
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aaa, this is for you and anyone else who still is failing to grasp the basic issues regarding this conflict
.....here, read my 2nd post
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=569459#post569459
.....here, read my 2nd post
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=569459#post569459
aaa, just let me know when you cant take being slapped in the face constantly ok?
aaa:
perfect example of how your complete indoctrination + biassed + ignorant views coupled with arrogance practically veges on the point of brainwashing on your part, to the extent where you have a completely distoretd view on FACTS, not conjecture, speculation, or my opinions but FACTS...but thats typical zionist denial + revisionist theory....nothing new there:
here you go sparky...make sure when you digest these facts you dont choke:
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/palestinian_refugees.htm
the state of israel is to blame
the exsistance of the state of Israel is the key + fundemental issue underpinning this entire debate
the ideology that lead to the inception of the illeagal state of israel is the root cause that strikes to the very heart of this issue
your denial and refusal to accept the very nature of the debate you try to argue renders you unable to partake on an objective level
1) you posses no fatual information on a historical/political/anthropological level
2) the few scraps of "facts" you do have rattling around are rendered completely distorted by your inherent bias + hatred to the palestinians and hence you are filled with emotional subjectivity and no capacity for rational analysis and such you should leave this debate.
aaa:
perfect example of how your complete indoctrination + biassed + ignorant views coupled with arrogance practically veges on the point of brainwashing on your part, to the extent where you have a completely distoretd view on FACTS, not conjecture, speculation, or my opinions but FACTS...but thats typical zionist denial + revisionist theory....nothing new there:
here you go sparky...make sure when you digest these facts you dont choke:
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/palestinian_refugees.htm
the state of israel is to blame
the exsistance of the state of Israel is the key + fundemental issue underpinning this entire debate
the ideology that lead to the inception of the illeagal state of israel is the root cause that strikes to the very heart of this issue
your denial and refusal to accept the very nature of the debate you try to argue renders you unable to partake on an objective level
1) you posses no fatual information on a historical/political/anthropological level
2) the few scraps of "facts" you do have rattling around are rendered completely distorted by your inherent bias + hatred to the palestinians and hence you are filled with emotional subjectivity and no capacity for rational analysis and such you should leave this debate.
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the last nail in aaa's coffin
Israel not to blame??
Over the years Israel has moved relentlessly towards the political right, towards an interpretation of Zionism known as Revisionism. As a result, Israel has become more overtly expansionist, more willing to rely on force as its principal policy towards the Arabs (as the unprovoked, brutal invasion of Lebanon clearly showed), more willing to oppress Arabs living under Israeli rule and more willing to become "theocratic" --at least in social legislation. Because these trends show every sign of increasing, one cannot dismiss as aberrational Rabbi Meir Kahane's contention that what he represents is the wave of Zionism's future. lie may, in fact, be Zionism's logical heir.
The most important conclusion that emerges from The Iron Wall, (which Brenner himself never quite succinctly draws) is that, except for its anti-Socialist, anti-union economic policy, Zionist Revisionism and Zionism proper have differed largely in degree rather than kind. Jabotinsky had a more audacious vision and was more candid than other Zionist leaders. He founded the Haganah because he believed that the use of Jewish force would be necessary not only to establish a national home in Palestine, but also to sustain it by subjugating the local population. In fact, the title of Brenner's book is derived from Jabotinsky's metaphor for invincible force--the iron wall. Despite his strategic mistakes, Jabotinsky saw that Israel needed a major power sponsor indefinitely. (He thought it would be Imperial Britain with Israel "a loyal Jewish Ulster" rather than America with Israel as "the bastion of democracy in the Middle East.") He knew that Israel as a colonial movement in an unfriendly environment would fall back on Jewish solidarity, exclusivity, or "racism", if you wish, and said so.
By the 1930s, when Zionism became a movement of some magnitude, most Zionist leaders also knew these things, though they were not willing to admit them. Arabophilism was never a major thrust among Zionists, just as "Peace Now" is not now a major force in Israel. Brenner's book makes clear how and why Zionism has taken the unfortunate direction in which it is now heading.
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/091784/840917010.html
.
Israel not to blame??
Over the years Israel has moved relentlessly towards the political right, towards an interpretation of Zionism known as Revisionism. As a result, Israel has become more overtly expansionist, more willing to rely on force as its principal policy towards the Arabs (as the unprovoked, brutal invasion of Lebanon clearly showed), more willing to oppress Arabs living under Israeli rule and more willing to become "theocratic" --at least in social legislation. Because these trends show every sign of increasing, one cannot dismiss as aberrational Rabbi Meir Kahane's contention that what he represents is the wave of Zionism's future. lie may, in fact, be Zionism's logical heir.
The most important conclusion that emerges from The Iron Wall, (which Brenner himself never quite succinctly draws) is that, except for its anti-Socialist, anti-union economic policy, Zionist Revisionism and Zionism proper have differed largely in degree rather than kind. Jabotinsky had a more audacious vision and was more candid than other Zionist leaders. He founded the Haganah because he believed that the use of Jewish force would be necessary not only to establish a national home in Palestine, but also to sustain it by subjugating the local population. In fact, the title of Brenner's book is derived from Jabotinsky's metaphor for invincible force--the iron wall. Despite his strategic mistakes, Jabotinsky saw that Israel needed a major power sponsor indefinitely. (He thought it would be Imperial Britain with Israel "a loyal Jewish Ulster" rather than America with Israel as "the bastion of democracy in the Middle East.") He knew that Israel as a colonial movement in an unfriendly environment would fall back on Jewish solidarity, exclusivity, or "racism", if you wish, and said so.
By the 1930s, when Zionism became a movement of some magnitude, most Zionist leaders also knew these things, though they were not willing to admit them. Arabophilism was never a major thrust among Zionists, just as "Peace Now" is not now a major force in Israel. Brenner's book makes clear how and why Zionism has taken the unfortunate direction in which it is now heading.
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/091784/840917010.html
.
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"moron, thick skull, idiot"... you just can't have a normal discussion, huh?
i read everything you wrote, but i decided not to answer all of what you have showed up.
why? maybe if you'll calm down, i'll explain you.
"started WHAT?? you cannot start occupation + brutality + opression SITTING IN YOUR OWN LAND get this one simple crucial fact in your thick skull man."
first of all, it's not their land.
why do you think they have rights on the whole country, because they lived there?
they did not even rule.
for your own information: jews bought lands from arabs in palestine.
second, the occupation only started in 67', i'm talking about things which happend even before.
the "arab revolt" (1936-1939)
in the first 6 monthes 80 jews were killed (+400 injured).
in total more than 400 were killed.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1936-39.php
as you can see, they could blame the arabs in war crimes as well.
unfortionally, there was no one to hear them.
man, why do you think it's called the "HAGANAH"?.. it means "defence".
the members of this organization protected the jews against the arab agression
over the 36'-39' and later.
later then it was called TZAHAL (Israel Defence Force).
needless to say that the arabs had fully support from arab nations while
the jews had none.
"634 to 1099? 465 years on that land??? and they STILL have less rights to that land than some germanic/slav euro wannabes who stole the land in 1948????"
don't forget the "mizrahim" jews.
if you're going on that direction, then jews were on israel more than
the palestinians.
"stole it on 1948"??? LOLLL
the UN decided to split the country to two nations.
the arabs fought, and lost.
i read everything you wrote, but i decided not to answer all of what you have showed up.
why? maybe if you'll calm down, i'll explain you.
"started WHAT?? you cannot start occupation + brutality + opression SITTING IN YOUR OWN LAND get this one simple crucial fact in your thick skull man."
first of all, it's not their land.
why do you think they have rights on the whole country, because they lived there?
they did not even rule.
for your own information: jews bought lands from arabs in palestine.
second, the occupation only started in 67', i'm talking about things which happend even before.
the "arab revolt" (1936-1939)
in the first 6 monthes 80 jews were killed (+400 injured).
in total more than 400 were killed.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1936-39.php
as you can see, they could blame the arabs in war crimes as well.
unfortionally, there was no one to hear them.
man, why do you think it's called the "HAGANAH"?.. it means "defence".
the members of this organization protected the jews against the arab agression
over the 36'-39' and later.
later then it was called TZAHAL (Israel Defence Force).
needless to say that the arabs had fully support from arab nations while
the jews had none.
"634 to 1099? 465 years on that land??? and they STILL have less rights to that land than some germanic/slav euro wannabes who stole the land in 1948????"
don't forget the "mizrahim" jews.
if you're going on that direction, then jews were on israel more than
the palestinians.
"stole it on 1948"??? LOLLL
the UN decided to split the country to two nations.
the arabs fought, and lost.
aaa said:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/o.../IraqiJews1.htm
(Zionist) Jews attacked other Jews (and also they bribed Arab police to) in order to shit Jews up. They also attacked Jews in other countries so they would fear for their lives and go to Israel. (Zionist) Jews also helped in the holocaust.
i guess their fucking Jewish plans worked though. Jews DID go to Israel and now Jews can use this excuse and say that Arabs attacked first. Fucking Jews!!!
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/o.../IraqiJews1.htm
jews lie
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/o.../IraqiJews1.htm
jews lie
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/o.../IraqiJews1.htm
jews lie
aaa:
ok, this is beyod a joke now
1)answer me one question:
if it is not their (pal) land the WHOSE land is it?
eh? professor of anthropology?
why do they have rights on the whole country because they live there?
this does not warrant reply.
ok, this is beyod a joke now
1)answer me one question:
if it is not their (pal) land the WHOSE land is it?
eh? professor of anthropology?
why do they have rights on the whole country because they live there?
this does not warrant reply.
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aaa:
yes it is.
3'rd millennium BC : The Canaanites were the earliest known inhabitants of Palestine. They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho . They developed an alphabet. Palestine's location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor. It was also the natural battleground for the great powers of the region and subject to domination by adjacent empires, beginning with Egypt in the 3d millennium BC.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/palst.htm
yes it is.
3'rd millennium BC : The Canaanites were the earliest known inhabitants of Palestine. They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho . They developed an alphabet. Palestine's location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor. It was also the natural battleground for the great powers of the region and subject to domination by adjacent empires, beginning with Egypt in the 3d millennium BC.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/palst.htm
Located at the eastern edge of the Mediterranean Sea and the western edge of Asia Minor, the Levant is the land of the Bible, the source of the religions of Jews, Christians, and Moslems. A pivotal point for communication and conflict between Egypt, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, it is both the heartland of a culture and a crossroads for many cultures. A people must be adaptable to survive in an area traversed by numerous tribes and which is the front between large empires, or else they will be absorbed by the conquerors. The area includes what are now called Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Israel/ Palestine. While current cultures are largely Moslem, they include significant populations of Jews and Christians. Many people still live in cities founded by the Canaanites and Phoenicians 5,000 years ago and continually occupied since then (some cities even go bck to 7,000 BCE). We use alphabets derived from theirs, but few written records remain from them. The faiths of The Book (Torah, Bible, and Quran/ Koran) derive from theirs, but they practised a religion of ecstasies. Who were they? What were they like? To answer these questions, we must look to Archaeology.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/histcult.html
I see you type "it's not their land" one more time and I will actively push for your banning from this forum on the basis of gross stupidity.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/histcult.html
I see you type "it's not their land" one more time and I will actively push for your banning from this forum on the basis of gross stupidity.
heh... what about the British Mandate (1917-1948)?
so i guess the british people stole the land of the palestinians.
the UN decided to split the country to a jewish state and to an arab state.
THAT IS A FACT, you idiot.
so, instead of living together in peace, the arabs simply started the war in 1948.
THAT IS A FACT TOO, now bugger off.
the occupation only started in 67', due the arabs to strat another war.
they should have been trying to understand and talk, instead of starting wars.
ISN'T THAT A FACT THAT THE ARABS STARTED THE WARS IN 48', 67'???
ISN'T THAT A FACT THAT THE OCCUPATION STARTED ONLY BECAUSE OF
ARAB AGRESSION AGAINST ISRAEL?
or perhaps you have a better way to say it, such as blaming the jews in
everything... - "stealing" the land? occupation? "brutality"? you are the idiot.
so i guess the british people stole the land of the palestinians.
the UN decided to split the country to a jewish state and to an arab state.
THAT IS A FACT, you idiot.
so, instead of living together in peace, the arabs simply started the war in 1948.
THAT IS A FACT TOO, now bugger off.
the occupation only started in 67', due the arabs to strat another war.
they should have been trying to understand and talk, instead of starting wars.
ISN'T THAT A FACT THAT THE ARABS STARTED THE WARS IN 48', 67'???
ISN'T THAT A FACT THAT THE OCCUPATION STARTED ONLY BECAUSE OF
ARAB AGRESSION AGAINST ISRAEL?
or perhaps you have a better way to say it, such as blaming the jews in
everything... - "stealing" the land? occupation? "brutality"? you are the idiot.
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