Vienna said:
Rants and general statement does not amount to debate.
And the church of England has GAY preists as well !! is that development, NO, it is the beginning of the end.
NAME ME ONE AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ??
OR NAME ME ONE GERMAN CANCELLOR WHO HAPPENED TO BA WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ON ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPEND TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ONE FRENCH PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ON SPANISH PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ONE PORTUGESE PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ???
And the list goes on and on...
Now, the President of the LARGEST Muslim country in the world is MUSLIM WOMAN.....WOMAN, MY DEAR VIENNA...PRESIDENT MEGAWATI OF INDONESIA.
The Prime Minister of Bangladesh, another Muslim country, is ALSO MUSLIM WOMAN, even the leader of the oppossion party in Bangladesh is Also Muslim woman.
In 1991, when one of the typical ignorant anchors on the SHITNN was telling muslim women have no right to vote, BENAZI BUTEU WAS THE FEMALE PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN.
In the 1980s, TANSU SHIELR, A MUSLIM WOMAN, WAS THE PRIME MINISTER OF TURKEY...
Until 1945 French women were NOT allowed to vote.
Until 1971 Swizz Women were NOT allowed to vote.
Finland was the FIRST WESTERN nation to give women the right to vote in 1906, 1300 YEARS AFTER ISLAM...........INCREDIBLE.
Islam Makes More Sense Than Christianity.
- Thread starter CounslerCoffee
- Start date
Strictly speaking, most of PM's complaints about women an christianity come from the Pauline parts of the New testament. Now, it is widely thougth that there was anotehr strain of Christianity that was "better" for women, the jacobite one. Furthermore, did not Jesus talk to and meet prostitutes, and save a woman from being stoned to death from adultery.
(allegely. I am an agnostic after all.)
(allegely. I am an agnostic after all.)
Proud_Muslim said:Finland was the FIRST WESTERN nation to give women the right to vote in 1906, 1300 YEARS AFTER ISLAM...........INCREDIBLE.
Don't forget to mention that a muslim woman vote/wittness/inheritance amount to HALF of the man....Did you leave that part our on purpose...embarrased perhaps
" The witness of a woman is equal to half of that of a man because of the deficiency of the woman's mind" Hadith vol. 3:826
In inheritance: a woman's share is half that of a man. " To the male a portion equal to that of two females..." Surah 4:11
In court witness: the witness of two women equals the witness of one man. "...and if there are not two men, then a man and two women such as you choose, for witness..." Surah 2:282
So I guess, we need two female presidents to accomplish something as important as leading a country.
Flores said:
I cant understand how women can have HALF VOTE !!
As to the inheritahce law, in some cases, Muslim woman inherits MORE than man, and in ONE case only, she inherits half of her brother when the father dies.
In Islam, the daughter gets half of what the son gets, because under the law of "Nafaqa", the son is responsible to support his (1) Wife and Kids; (2) Old Parents; (3) Widowed Sisters. In Islam, the wife doesn't have to provide any financial support to her family. Only the man does. So, it is very fair for the man to get equivalent to two women of inheritance in Islam.
Wouldn't you agree with me that if it is the man's responsibility to support his parents (when they get old), wife, kids, and widow sisters, then it makes perfect sense for the man to get more money than the woman in inheritance?
http://www.islamia.com/Women/statusof.htm
As to witness, again, as i posted before, the prophet was satisfied with the testimony of one woman, 2 women are required ONLY in special cases:
Are two women equal to one man in Islam?
There is a widely prevailing misconception by the anti-Islamics regarding this issue. They claim that since Allah Almighty ordered courts in Islam to bring either two reliable females witness or one reliable male witness, then therefore, Islam (1) discriminates between men and women; and (2) does not consider men and women to be equal.
Let us look at Noble Verse 2:282 "O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing; let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear God; For it is Good that teaches you. And God is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And God knoweth all that ye do."
Why did Allah Almighty order such law?
The Noble Verse above is quite clear about providing either one reliable man or 2 reliable women (in substitution to him) in any court. But why did Allah Almighty order such a law? What is the wisdom behind it?
The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity. Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.
Let us look at few differences between men and women to understand better:
1- Women have a lot more patience and emotions in them than men. This is one of the blessings that Allah Almighty had created in women to enable them to raise children. Men do not have enough patience in them, nor enough loving emotions in them to raise children.
2- Women can easily get frightened. Man can't. It takes a lot to frighten a normal average man.
Let us look at the following Saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826)"
Notice very carefully here that Prophet Muhammad said "woman's mind" and not "woman's brain". No where in any Islamic doctrine do we see any ridiculous uneducated and unscientific claim against women or anyone. The women's brains and ability to think is not what is being criticized here. It is as I said above their complete integrity. Notice how Allah Almighty said in the Noble Verse "...it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves...(The Noble Quran, 2:282)" So it is the perfect justice and the 100% complete accuracy that Allah Almighty is concerned about here.
In the section below you will see a situation where Allah Almighty commands for us to bring 4 reliable men or else the case is dismissed:
If it takes two women, here it takes four men for a witness!
It is obvious from Noble Verse 2:282 and the Saying of our beloved Prophet above that Islam is extremely picky when it comes to justice. The slightest of doubts are not acceptable. For instance, a single man's witness is not sufficient enough to prove that an adulteress did indeed commit adultery. There has to be present 4 reliable (not just any witnesses) in order for the woman to be convicted:
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 24:4)"
It is not so much that one man or two or even three men all together don't have the mental capability to capture a simple event of adultery done by a woman. It is the uncompromised 100% accuracy and perfection in the conviction that Islam is really picky about. What might appear as an adultery to one man, might not appear as such to another. That is why Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran ordered the Muslims to produce 4 reliable witnesses to convict the woman, or else the case is dismissed and those who made any allegations would get flogged for falsely charging a chaste woman.
Men and women have their gender, biological, physical, and emotional differences [to name few], which results in different medical, mental, health, and psychological conditions. Those in denial or ignorant will dispute this fact without realizing that Noble Qur'aan 1,421 years ago actually protected women forever with this very verse. Many reasons which effects women's health have been discovered by modern science in recent age and will continue to be explored in future. Let us see some of those facts which impairs a woman's everyday life not to mention concentration..
Premenstrual Syndrome (Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder)
Premenstrual Syndrome (Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder) is a concept of which the validity has been questioned for decades. While based on clinical reality, with at least 60% of all women suffering from it, PMS has served as a tool for diminishing women, for enforcing stereotypes about their unpredictable and uncontrollable character, and for ridiculing their assertive behavior. The notion of PMS got so woven into the texture of our psycho-social fabric that many women self-diagnose themselves (or let their partners do so) without really having the disorder; while others who actually do need help go untreated because they (or their doctors) simply ""don't believe" in PMS. Stereotypes are rich soil for self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to conquer these stereotypes is through education.
Osteoporosis
Menopause is a distinct phase of a woman's life with its own special health needs and issues. Without a doubt, the single most important concern of the post menopausal women remains osteoporosis, or thinning and brittle bones.
· Traumas
· Eating Disorders
· Health Disorders
Endometriosis
It is a painful disease that may afflict 10 percent of women of child-bearing age. Endometriosis can go undetected and untreated by the medical community and wreak havoc on the sufferer's life. Many women who suffer from endometriosis eventually undergo unnecessary hysterectomies.
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is one of the most frequent anxiety disorders with current prevalence of 1.6% and lifetime prevalence 5.1% (Wittchen, Zhao, Kessler, & Eaton, 1994). It is a chronic condition which, despite some fluctuations, is relatively stable with continuous symptom pattern (Rickels & Schweizer, 1990; Brown, Barlow & Liebowitz, 1994). It's a state of continuous apprehension and anticipation of something horrible, characterized by excessive anxiety and unrealistic worry. It often affects social and occupational functioning and might have disruptive influence on the patients' families. The impact on the patients' perception of his/her emotional and physical well-being is great.
Panic disorder and Agoraphobia
Did you know that almost 14 % of general population suffers from one of the anxiety disorders? And did you know that the majority are women? One of the most common anxiety disorders is panic disorder with or without agoraphobia (even more common are simple phobias, such as fear of heights, darkness, animals etc.). The psychological, social and economical consequences of this disorders are enormous. Many kinds of effective treatments exist. Still, a great number of panic and agoraphobic patients struggle alone, afraid of confiding in their physicians because of the stigma attached to mental problems. Some physicians fail to recognize the symptoms. If you suffer from hyperventilation, palpitations, tingling sensations, dizziness or chest pain that suddenly come and suddenly disappear, you might be suffering from panic disorder. Wait no longer. There is help.
Relationship Issues
a.. Arguing
b.. Co-dependency
c.. Making Relationships Work
d.. Negative Thinking
e.. Sleep Hygiene
For some, falling asleep is as simple as laying back into a soft pillow. But for others, it is a frustrating process of tossing, turning and glancing nervously at the advancing clock. Whether you awake refreshed and ready to face the day or red-eyed and sluggish depends on your sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene is your personal collection of habits that determine the quality of your sleep.
For further information check this link of American medical Association [Women's Health Issues] http://www.ama-assn.org/special/womh/womh.htm
American Medical Association http://www.ama-assn.org/
American Psychological Association [Women's Health] http://helping.apa.org/
American Psychological Association http://www.apa.org/
LET US GET LEGAL HERE:
One must note that I have quoted verse 2:282 to distinguish and emphasize "such as you agree for witnesses" ...This part or portion of the verse also provides the liberty to parties to agree for witnesses. Which is followed by a "IF" that actually gives woman more power and guarantee for following reasons.
1. Outdoors and judiciary has historically been always men's dominated world and it still is.
2. Even in so-called free world and so-called civilized societies of Europe and USA have a glass ceiling [invisible] for women which often prevents women to advance and exercise her rights. Still women are overwhelmingly outnumbered by men in so-called democratic judicial systems [to represent or be represented] of Europe and USA let alone other parts of world.
3. Keeping the point 1 & 2 in mind verse 2:282 provides women strength by virtue of number=power, that means when a women is out numbered by men in judiciary of legal proceeding she has someone from her own gender which can be a support to her by understanding her special needs, her weaknesses, and her strengths "IF" she faces such situation.
4. Beside that this verse does not prevent a women to have a MEHRUM [father, brother, husband, or son] to be on her side. The key theme here is protection of women's right to be a witness. Does bible gives it to women? I don't think so. Please keep this fact in mind that Noble Qur'aan does say that IF one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. So "IF" is the key word not a mandate. Which proves that Qur'aan is catering the women whereas bible uses her for sex, lies and nudity.
So I guess, we need two female presidents to accomplish something as important as leading a country.
Sister, dont be fooled by propaganda, I am proud of you for what you achieved so far, I am proud of every single Muslim woman who led and will lead insha allah our ummah.
If Allah Almighty praised BALQIS, the Queen of Sab'a, in the Noble Quran, it means God dont mind having woman as our leader.
Dont listen to TALIBAN-STYLE ASSHOLE extremists who are so scared that woman might lead them, I had many fights with such scumbags regading this issue, but if Allah almighty is with you, who dare to be against you ?
The defilement that is spoke of is adultry, lust etc..
If it was considered respectable for a women to wear a hat back then, as I would assume(some of Paul's thought on this comes from Hellenistic authors that he's read), then Paul is only stating a respectable custum. This is not, however, a matter of doctrine but of practice. If circumstances would require women to wear hats than the bishop can require that of them within the church service.
If it was considered respectable for a women to wear a hat back then, as I would assume(some of Paul's thought on this comes from Hellenistic authors that he's read), then Paul is only stating a respectable custum. This is not, however, a matter of doctrine but of practice. If circumstances would require women to wear hats than the bishop can require that of them within the church service.
Proud_Muslim said:And your Islam clerics are all straight guys are they, doubt it.
Recently one cleric has been caught with a young boy in the mosque.
So don't start that game PM.
NAME ME ONE AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ??
OR NAME ME ONE GERMAN CANCELLOR WHO HAPPENED TO BA WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ON ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPEND TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ONE FRENCH PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ON SPANISH PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ?
OR NAME ME ONE PORTUGESE PRIME MINISTER WHO HAPPENED TO BE WOMAN ???
And the list goes on and on...
Now, the President of the LARGEST Muslim country in the world is MUSLIM WOMAN.....WOMAN, MY DEAR VIENNA...PRESIDENT MEGAWATI OF INDONESIA.
The Prime Minister of Bangladesh, another Muslim country, is ALSO MUSLIM WOMAN, even the leader of the oppossion party in Bangladesh is Also Muslim woman.
In 1991, when one of the typical ignorant anchors on the SHITNN was telling muslim women have no right to vote, BENAZI BUTEU WAS THE FEMALE PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN.
In the 1980s, TANSU SHIELR, A MUSLIM WOMAN, WAS THE PRIME MINISTER OF TURKEY...
Until 1945 French women were NOT allowed to vote.
Until 1971 Swizz Women were NOT allowed to vote.
Finland was the FIRST WESTERN nation to give women the right to vote in 1906, 1300 YEARS AFTER ISLAM...........INCREDIBLE.
This is where you fall down PM. You cannot see the difference between Islam and Nations. All the above you mentioned are countries not religions.
Can you see the difference now.
No wonder France has taken steps to make sure securalism stays.
Right - Now I will start again
The Queen of England is the Head of the Church of England (Christian) OK Got it now.
Have you any Women leaders in the Islam Faith, and when was the last time (If any) a women was the Leader of any part of the Islam faith??
Vienna said:
You better keep your mouth closed before I open the Peadophilia file regarding your preists and the churchs' tabloid-style adventures !!
I was talking about the religion that govern their countries, in ALL these countries, christianity was the OFFICIAL RELIGION OF THE STATE when women were banned from voting.
Not for long though, you cant force your absurdity on people by laws.
Oh I see, she was democraticlly elected QUEEN, right ??
We dont have such thing as PART OF THE ISLAM FAITH, and yes we had many examples of Muslim women who were imams and scholars, Aisha, the prophet's wife was the first of such scholars.
Likewise - and they are not MY priests remember.Proud_Muslim said:
And what possesed you to take that idea on???
Why not - the most absurd laws in the world belong to the Sharia.
Anyway the New French law is here to stay and the idea will spread, all it needed was for someone to take the initial stance and its happened, and will continue to happen....
Anyway you'd be suprised that the majority of muslim women also voted in favour of this rule, I wonder why.
No I'll tell you why - They don't have equal rights and they are treat like second class people.
I'd love to see the Sharia give muslim women equal rights. And I said EQUAL rights, not just some token vote here and there, I mean 50-50!
Sigh PM = thickness in its highest form.Oh I see, she was democraticlly elected QUEEN, right ??
You've lost it haven't you, you haven't got a single clue what you are talking about.
I will write this s l o w l y.
The leader of the Christian Church of England .....is a WOMAN!
Scholar? scholar? and how many hundreds of years ago was that then??
Hello....PM
IT'S 2004 THIS YEAR AND I AM TALKING PRESENT TIME
HAVE YOU GOT A FEMALE LEADER IN ANYWAY ISLAMIC TO THE EQUIVALENT OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND ....savvy??????
PHEW....
Islam makes more sense than christianity? And a cheeseburger is more healthy for you than a bowl of pork rinds!
But if you want to live to be 100, chose none of the above.
But if you want to live to be 100, chose none of the above.
Proud_Muslim said:You better keep your mouth closed before I open the Peadophilia file regarding your preists and the churchs' tabloid-style adventures !!
.
Dont' forget the Bible, Which Vienna based his whole life on. He may be shocked after he will really read the Bible.
Hey Veinna have you ever read it? I mean the Bible?
Proud Muslim, are you serious about no punishment for women in Islamic societies? Does that mean that Muslims stone women to death simply because they want to? And does that mean that a Muslim man who murders his wife is free from jail within a month for absolutely no reason? And, really, why do Muslim women have to cover themselves with those vails? I've noted, that in some places, women have to even cover their eyes with that plastic part of a vail too, and they cant show their hands or feet (I could be wrong in the detailing but the idea is there). In Muslim societies today (please touch upon all Muslim countries), what role do women have and, most importantly, WHY? How about those people who spray women's faces with acid?
Now, do Christians stone their women? Cover their women? The Victorian era was harsh, but it didn't even come close to what Muslims do to their wives and daughters today!
Now, do Christians stone their women? Cover their women? The Victorian era was harsh, but it didn't even come close to what Muslims do to their wives and daughters today!
whitewolf said:
Every thing you mentioned above are offcourse horrible, but can you please show me where Islam tells them to do it? Where Quran says to spray acid on their faces? and where it says to stoned them for no reason? or if there is stonning how strick the conditions are? Answer to all of the above is very simple. Manipulated teachings of Islam and Illiteracy.
Ilietracy is the man kind's worst enemy. It is not bounded to any religion but you can find it more often in Islamic countries.
By the way how do you explain Amercan or European muslims women or converted white women who still cover their heads? are they forced by muslim men even they don't have any men to be related to? and how many of 8 million muslims in USA wear Head Scarf?
Don't you think it is a choice rather a duty?
What do you think about Nuns? why do they have to cover their heads? Just curious.
What I mentioned above is horrible, indeed, and true. I patiently await Proud Muslim's explanation for such things, since, I must admit, I never flipped through the Quran (I barely started the old testament). I am fairly certain, however, that if I were to ask a Muslim man why he stoned a woman to death he would reply that he did so because his culture dictates such action (culture which is closely tied to religion).
Nuns are a good example, but Christians do not force all of their women into monasteries. True, earlier in history, women were forced to be nuns for various reasons, other than religious too. Due to close ties between origins of Christianity and Islam, I would assume that in both cultures women cover their heads for similar reasons. But Christian societies seem to have evolved out of abuse of women and go forward towards equal rights for both genders. Muslim societies seem to have done the opposite. Don't ask me why.
My personal opinion is that both religions do not take care of current social and individual needs. Out of the two evils, I would choose Christianity since it seems to be more liberal and therefore more peaceful (please don't stick my nose into international affairs and crime).
Nuns are a good example, but Christians do not force all of their women into monasteries. True, earlier in history, women were forced to be nuns for various reasons, other than religious too. Due to close ties between origins of Christianity and Islam, I would assume that in both cultures women cover their heads for similar reasons. But Christian societies seem to have evolved out of abuse of women and go forward towards equal rights for both genders. Muslim societies seem to have done the opposite. Don't ask me why.
My personal opinion is that both religions do not take care of current social and individual needs. Out of the two evils, I would choose Christianity since it seems to be more liberal and therefore more peaceful (please don't stick my nose into international affairs and crime).
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish thing." - Bertrand Russell
This conversation makes the debate over Janet's boob seem important.
Josh
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"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks :m:
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This conversation makes the debate over Janet's boob seem important.
Josh
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"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks :m:
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James R. Can i ask a question to you and everyone who had something to say. Did any one of you ever read the Bible from cover to cover? the whole point of it was about Salvation. How the sheading of blood from a lamb in the garden of Eden to Bull, goats,and Doves all pointed to a better sacriface. his Son Jesus who Died on the cross for all mankind. Please read the book of Hebrews. it lays out in a nutshell God,s Salvation plan. Now as for Islam . thay dont have a personal savior. Thay dont belive that he (Jesus) is God. It says In John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.Jeses was the verry full Expression of God here on earth .1:14- And the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us. In John 14:6 jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. no one comes to the Father but by me.So yes Christianty is a fulfillment of the old testament.James R said:
Thankyou Aires. That completes the cycle.
(And thankyou, I am well informed about Christian teachings. I attended Sunday school. While I was at school, I went to church two times a week or more. I have studied the bible. I have also read many articles and commentaries and scholarly articles relating to the Christian faith and others.)
(And thankyou, I am well informed about Christian teachings. I attended Sunday school. While I was at school, I went to church two times a week or more. I have studied the bible. I have also read many articles and commentaries and scholarly articles relating to the Christian faith and others.)
