Do the teachings of Islam promote the well-being and progress of women?
Islam Good for Women?
- Thread starter IceAgeCivilizations
- Start date
No Abrahamic religion does.
Jesus was a great liberator for women, was Muhammed?
Bells
Staff member
He was?
How so? How did Jesus liberate women? Did he stop arranged marriages for example? Don't forget that his own mother's marriage was arranged.
Did he free women from their role in society giving them freedom to vote, enter the political hierachy of the times in the Jewish community, etc? Stopping one woman from being stoned does not make him a great liberator of womanhood nor does it make him a fictional head of the feminist liberation movement.
Matt 27:55-56 "And many women who followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him, were there looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons."
Yes, so liberated they were basically his servants.
Look how good women have it in predominantly Christian countries compared to the others, and you were saying?
Bells
Staff member
Hey yes.
Subjugated and denied rights until only quiet recently. Ya, women have had it real good in Christian countries.
Hell, in some wedding vows, women are still meant to 'obey' their husbands.
But was it Christianity that freed women in the so called "Christian countries"? Or did the women themselves have to fight tooth and nail for it? You were saying?
Old JC did supposedly cut out the stoning of women for adultery and that. But basically women had to fight for their own rights. Now, that doesn't absolve islam either, of course: and stoning isn't the same as not being allowed to vote. Anyway, I like to slag people and things.
You're wearing out that stupid smilie.
Those smilies must be for people who can't express themselves, maybe you could make a whole language out of them for the illiterate.
Why aren't American and European women's groups vocal about how Islam allows women to be treated?
Bells
Staff member
And maybe you can actually start writing in paragraphs instead of one line per post.
Who says they aren't?
But isn't it up to the women who belong to the Islamic religion to decide their own fate? After all, who are women in the West to decide what is good for all women around the world? We chose our own path and it is up to the women in Islam to choose their own. That is what freedom is and should always be. The freedom to choose one's own path.
Are they allowed to choose their own path?
Bells
Staff member
Women in the West weren't, but they did so anyway. Some still suffer for not being submissive (eg domestic abuse) and others are denied the right of employment, etc.
And some women in Islam do choose their own path. Maybe we should respect their abilities and their choices instead of attempting to enforce our Western ideals on them. We come from different cultures so we cannot expect them to do things as we did or continue to do. Our life experiences are different, as is our upbringing. We cannot apply our values and morals them because ours are vastly different to theirs in so many ways.
What we can do is not put them down for whatever choice they do make.
What a fair weather friend you are to your sisters who are suffering in the Muslim world.
Bells
Staff member
So you think women in the West should remove the matter of choice for women in Islam? Wouldn't we (women in the West) be as oppressive as the system they reside in currently?
How hypocritical is it for us to say 'your situation is bad and therefore you must change it, but we don't trust you to change it as we see fit, so we will do it for you and do it our way', and then falsely congratulate ourselves that we have given them 'freedom', but only freedom as we see it? After all, don't you think they should have a choice in their own self determination?
Don't you think they should be free to make their own choices and be free to ask for help as they see fit? Who are we to demand what they should demand of their world and religion when we ourselves have not got it right yet?
Why would ANY woman want to be treated as a second class citizen, what do they gain from that?
Bells
Staff member
You tell me.
Christianity has treated women as second class citizens from its inception. Laws of countries have changed, but the religious doctrines have not.
And what of women who live in so called "Christian countries" who face constant abuse and are treated as second class citizens, who are denied the right to divorce by the Catholic Church for example (remember the words 'for better or for worse' in the wedding vows)? What of women who are abused in Christian countries and denied rights by their husbands, families, community?
Before you throw stones, remember you live in a glass house. Women don't have it so great in the West either. We may have it better, but we aren't that much better that we are in a position to dictate what others should do. We fought to get to where we are now and it is an ongoing battle. Christianity did not make it easier for women in the West. On the contrary, it made it that much harder. And the fight is not over for women in the West. But we are doing it as we see fit and I think the least we can do is allow women in Islam the same courtesy and allow them to fight their battle as they see fit. If they need help, help should be forthcoming as they desire it. It is not for us to demand when they change or how they desire the changes to be made. After all, it would hardly be a fight for freedom and equality if we attempted to dictate to them what they should be aspiring to and for.
So you think Muslim women have a relatively good life, go figure.
They get killed if they gripe too much, that's why they don't gripe, and you sit there and tell them they should do it themselves, that's disgusting.
They get killed if they gripe too much, that's why they don't gripe, and you sit there and tell them they should do it themselves, that's disgusting.
I'm going to do something I never do. Never.
I'm going to try to make peace.
Let's say this, guys: we must do more to help liberate women oppressed under islam, while being cognizant that we have further to go ourselves. We must let women in islam decide their own course, while being free to be critical of the islamic system and offering a helping hand in their liberation.
Or one could try to start a suffragette movement.
Meh, those were terrible ideas. Bash away.
I'm going to try to make peace.
Let's say this, guys: we must do more to help liberate women oppressed under islam, while being cognizant that we have further to go ourselves. We must let women in islam decide their own course, while being free to be critical of the islamic system and offering a helping hand in their liberation.
Or one could try to start a suffragette movement.
Meh, those were terrible ideas. Bash away.