beat me to it.
to be fair, we cant discount the traditional modern view of jesus' history either, though.
Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?
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beat me to it.
to be fair, we cant discount the traditional modern view of jesus' history either, though.
The New Testament says nothing about "apostolic succession."
I have read some gnostic texts, nothing of the muslim opinion though, good idea, thanks! When I have more free time anyway.
Abrahamic religions seem cold, distant and desert sandy to me, they more can teach me how we got here, but I wouldn't like them to be the teachers how we should move on. Therefore I'm a bit curious, but not really excited about them.
I'm more interested in general shamanism to tibetan tantrism to general buddhism and upanishadic hinduism, with a weekend vacation in the European heroic tradition and mythology with an emphasis in all of them to the techniques f rituals.
I have this long term plan on making short films that can reach deeply, you see,
and what a better way to find how to do it than studying rituals that have been used for that purpose since time forgotten.
Abrahamic religions seem cold, distant and desert sandy to me, they more can teach me how we got here, but I wouldn't like them to be the teachers how we should move on. Therefore I'm a bit curious, but not really excited about them.
I'm more interested in general shamanism to tibetan tantrism to general buddhism and upanishadic hinduism, with a weekend vacation in the European heroic tradition and mythology with an emphasis in all of them to the techniques f rituals.
I have this long term plan on making short films that can reach deeply, you see,
and what a better way to find how to do it than studying rituals that have been used for that purpose since time forgotten.
Please tell me, what you think of the text I linked previously, i.e. The Gospel of Thomas which I was referring to, since we established that we had been talking about two different texts. 
It happens.
http://www.goodnewsinc.net/othbooks/thomas.html
It happens.http://www.goodnewsinc.net/othbooks/thomas.html
Who asked about the Old testament and the new testament God at all?
Recognizing Christ's divinity doesn't mean that they don't worship the same God. I know a few religions that don't acknowledge Christ's divinity but worship "the same God".
It has some neat stories in it I'll give you that.
Which also goes along with the fact that for a good long while it was against the law to read anything but the Bible, the Bible was only available in Latin, and only the clergy (and a few highly educated aristocrats) could read Latin.
its kind of the point of the thread, man....
the contrasts and similarities are what we are discussing.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
my Dad is a christian, has a good deal of faith (though he dislikes the church, he nearly ended up a professor of theology @ Notre Dame before my sister was born), and has the following opinion on the matter:
When you have a child, you first have to teach them the basics. What to do, what not to do; as the parent, you have to draw a line of what is not acceptable, and keep to that line. There are times when you have to be harsh, in cases where safety is concerned. "You *will* be punished if you sneak out and go drinking with your friends at age 12", for instance.
As the kid starts getting older, the pure basics start giving way to questions with less obvious areas of right and wrong - pushniment is less effective, and loving education becomes a more usefull tool for guiding the child through the maze of choices available to them. Telling them where is line is is less important than explaining why the line is there.
Once your child is older, then you step back, and allow them to learn for themselves. You have provided the basic foundation for them to live on thier own, and learn from their own mistakes.
I don't think this is absolutly accurate, but it is a nice way of looking at things (from a perspective of faith, of course).
When you have a child, you first have to teach them the basics. What to do, what not to do; as the parent, you have to draw a line of what is not acceptable, and keep to that line. There are times when you have to be harsh, in cases where safety is concerned. "You *will* be punished if you sneak out and go drinking with your friends at age 12", for instance.
As the kid starts getting older, the pure basics start giving way to questions with less obvious areas of right and wrong - pushniment is less effective, and loving education becomes a more usefull tool for guiding the child through the maze of choices available to them. Telling them where is line is is less important than explaining why the line is there.
Once your child is older, then you step back, and allow them to learn for themselves. You have provided the basic foundation for them to live on thier own, and learn from their own mistakes.
I don't think this is absolutly accurate, but it is a nice way of looking at things (from a perspective of faith, of course).
When posting to a thread relating to religion, I think the poster should give some background so others can judge what his bias might be. I happen to be an atheist who was raised to be a Christian and who also took some comparative religion courses. One of my parents was Catholic. The other was a Quaker (a small protestant sect).
My interpretation of Jesus is that he was attempting to reform Judaism rather than start a new religion. This is based on what I remember of his actions and what he actually said in various sermons and parables, discounting some of the less believable parts of the four gospels. I always thought of him as being like Martin Luther who initially tried to get the Catholic leaders to stop various practices like the selling of indulgences, never intending to start a new religion..
I believe that when the gospels were actually written, they were heavily influenced by Paul and others. I try to filter out what I consider words attributed to Jesus, but actually originating with Paul and others after his death and alleged resurrection.
In particular, his attitude toward the money changers and priests of the Temple seem like an attempt to reform, not destroy Judaism. Note that there were various scams supported by the priest other than those perpetrated by the money changers.
My interpretation of Jesus is that he was attempting to reform Judaism rather than start a new religion. This is based on what I remember of his actions and what he actually said in various sermons and parables, discounting some of the less believable parts of the four gospels. I always thought of him as being like Martin Luther who initially tried to get the Catholic leaders to stop various practices like the selling of indulgences, never intending to start a new religion..
I believe that when the gospels were actually written, they were heavily influenced by Paul and others. I try to filter out what I consider words attributed to Jesus, but actually originating with Paul and others after his death and alleged resurrection.
In particular, his attitude toward the money changers and priests of the Temple seem like an attempt to reform, not destroy Judaism. Note that there were various scams supported by the priest other than those perpetrated by the money changers.
exactly.
Four Winds
Registered Member
How many Gods are there?
I am always amused by people who say "there is only one God" and then point at someone and say "He does not pray to the same God that I pray to".
I am always amused by people who say "there is only one God" and then point at someone and say "He does not pray to the same God that I pray to".
considering jesus was jewish i'm going to go with yes
He was very Jewish indeed, preached in the synagogue at age 12.
sitchin could add an interesting dimension to this conversation.
why dont you kick it off?
In her book "The Gnostic Gospels" Elaine Pagels comes to the same conclusion, based on the gnostic writings. i.e. that there are two different gods talked of.
In fact she goes as far to say that the god of the old testament is a demigod written of as the Demiurge in gnostic writing.
Avatar Said “ Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?”
That depends from what perspective one discusses the subject. There are two basic perspectives when it comes to Christianity: You are either a 1.) “born again” Christian, also called a “babe in Christ,” 1 Corinthians 3:1, who is one that thinks “born again” means only accepting Jesus Christ, or instead one is a 2.) mature Christian, 1 Corinthians 2:10-16, who includes in the definition of “born again” reincarnation. Other differences are noted next, which is only a quick explanation on the many ideas that keep the babe, and mature Christian apart. The following ideas answer Avatar's question.
If one is a 1.) then the God of Christ is not the God of the Jews. Jews believe God is invisible, but 1.) believe God became visible, and appeared as Jesus. They think Jesus is an image of God, but God includes all flora, and fauna, also mountains, seas, solar systems, galaxies, and so on, and anyone with an IQ greater than 90 knows that one lone man can not be that grand, and limitless image. Just as important as that is that an image of anything is never invisible, for by definition an image must be visible to see it. So for 1.) Jesus fails to be invisible, like the Jews say God is invisible, and Jesus fails miserably to be an image of God. The apostle Paul calls those of 1.) “FOOLS,” who are found at Romans 1:20.
Those who are of 2.) believe like the Jews, that God is invisible, and invisible God remains. What mature Christians, and Jews believe are much the same, and a simple idea on that is found here: Romans 1:20” For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse“
That depends from what perspective one discusses the subject. There are two basic perspectives when it comes to Christianity: You are either a 1.) “born again” Christian, also called a “babe in Christ,” 1 Corinthians 3:1, who is one that thinks “born again” means only accepting Jesus Christ, or instead one is a 2.) mature Christian, 1 Corinthians 2:10-16, who includes in the definition of “born again” reincarnation. Other differences are noted next, which is only a quick explanation on the many ideas that keep the babe, and mature Christian apart. The following ideas answer Avatar's question.
If one is a 1.) then the God of Christ is not the God of the Jews. Jews believe God is invisible, but 1.) believe God became visible, and appeared as Jesus. They think Jesus is an image of God, but God includes all flora, and fauna, also mountains, seas, solar systems, galaxies, and so on, and anyone with an IQ greater than 90 knows that one lone man can not be that grand, and limitless image. Just as important as that is that an image of anything is never invisible, for by definition an image must be visible to see it. So for 1.) Jesus fails to be invisible, like the Jews say God is invisible, and Jesus fails miserably to be an image of God. The apostle Paul calls those of 1.) “FOOLS,” who are found at Romans 1:20.
Those who are of 2.) believe like the Jews, that God is invisible, and invisible God remains. What mature Christians, and Jews believe are much the same, and a simple idea on that is found here: Romans 1:20” For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse“
I can only hope that Jesus was talking about somegod other than Jehovah. I rather like the teachings of Jesus, but Jehovah was/is bloodthirsty. (Yo, Abraham/Avraham, do me a favor, Kill your boy. Psych!)
Judaism is a tribal religion; Jehovah is their god.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" must refer to other gods.
There is a book "The History of God" can't remember who wrote it, (I'll go and research it)that gives interesting ideas on this.
Also, remember, the word "catholic' meant "all inclusive"
Ps, I'm not a christian of any sort. I'm a Wiccan/Pantheist. Pantheism='All-God-ism' as in take everything, put it all together and THAT's God.
Judaism is a tribal religion; Jehovah is their god.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" must refer to other gods.
There is a book "The History of God" can't remember who wrote it, (I'll go and research it)that gives interesting ideas on this.
Also, remember, the word "catholic' meant "all inclusive"
Ps, I'm not a christian of any sort. I'm a Wiccan/Pantheist. Pantheism='All-God-ism' as in take everything, put it all together and THAT's God.
It's more Krishna-like than Buddha-like in nearly all aspects...So, consider the things we think Jesus Christ said (irrelevant if that was his name, or one person), he spoke of love and unity, and the kingdom of god here on Earth, a kingdom that is available to anyone, if (s)he opens the heart to the great mystery (God) and sees.
He spoke of the unity of all things and the manifestation of the realization of that unity is love, and that everyone who achieves that realization becomes just like he was - one with the father, God.
Almost Buddhist-like, yes? But that's another story altogether.
The God of Jews = The God of Islam...the same evil God of Jahve who hates images, is vengeful, war-like, jealous, etc...Avatar said:
Also Judaism and Islam are almost identical religions with few differences....it's almost as if the Jews and Muslims worship Siva and the Christians worship Visnu