Is sufi an atheist?

[Doomdayx]

you muslims, what is your point in this?

bruce wayne
you and sufi, both are muslims. sufi says he believes in allah, mohammed and he practices islam. i would not think that another muslim, either a mullah or a sufi would accept atheism more than you do.

but in this, you are just backbiting another muslim in the holy month of ramadhan, whereas you are supossed to be fasting now.

you know, backbiting is stricly forbidden in islam and it is said to be equal to the act of eating the raw flesh of your deceased brother. eating the raw flesh of your dead brother while fasting will leave you with nothing but with a wasted hunger only.
So why don't you question your muslimism instead of others?

 

[Doomdayx]

surrenderer,
it may be difficult for you to understand others and you may not accept them. muslims can have different ideas. but being hostile toward the other muslims is not an allowed attitude in the religion of peace, is it?

haven't you ever heard that allah is everywhere? if not, ask any muslim around you!

to me, sufi ideas are higher understanding of islam which cannot be appreciated by simple minded masses, naturally.

i am new to this forum and i have been lurking for some time. i have learned a lot from the posts of sufi and of some other wise guys. i can see many forum members share sufis' ideas and think about them. i expect you to join them and discuss about i d e a s rahther than p e r s o n s to accuse of..........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

you muslims, what is your point in this?

I started the thread. My point is in the first question and posts.

bruce wayne
you and sufi, both are muslims.

Muslims is not something that you just call yourself with. The term has content. Yet I have never accused him of not being a Muslim before I do not want to jump to conclusions. To the contrary I would like, as Muslims do, to resort to the Book, to clarify our divergence. Look up my reactions to him, you will see that that is my point in replying to him.

So,

sufi says he believes in allah, mohammed and he practices islam. i would not think that another muslim, either a mullah or a sufi would accept atheism more than you do.

I have not simply stated that he is an atheist. I argue why. One_raven then gave me an answer, that could fit better than my own conclusion and from him/her I became familiar with the word pantheism in the meaning it has in this thread.

but in this, you are just backbiting another muslim in the holy month of ramadhan, whereas you are supossed to be fasting now.

you know, backbiting is stricly forbidden in islam and it is said to be equal to the act of eating the raw flesh of your deceased brother. eating the raw flesh of your dead brother while fasting will leave you with nothing but with a wasted hunger only.

This is not backbiting. Sufi can read this (and does I guess). So nothing in his back. Also I am not just throwing allegations, I backed it up by argument.

So why don't you question your muslimism instead of others?

To quote someone: "very revealing, Doomdayx, very revealing" lol
But being a being with a mind, I cannot but reflect on it (ISLAM).

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

surrenderer,
it may be difficult for you to understand others and you may not accept them. muslims can have different ideas. but being hostile toward the other muslims is not an allowed attitude in the religion of peace, is it?

muslims can have different ideas.

Not about certain things. If a Muslim says there is no prayer in Islam then he is not a Muslim. Certainly ignorantly speaking of Allah would be a greater offence.

haven't you ever heard that allah is everywhere? if not, ask any muslim around you!

Since you want to learn from wise men concider this a lesson

Where is that written. Muslims recognise only the Qur'an and Sunna as valid revelation. Could you be so kind to provide us with proof from either.

to me, sufi ideas are higher understanding of islam which cannot be appreciated by simple minded masses, naturally.

Granted. You may believe whathever you want. Yet I would think that a religion for mankind would be accessible for all mankind. Even those simple minded masses, which you seem to deem inferior.

i am new to this forum and i have been lurking for some time. i have learned a lot from the posts of sufi and of some other wise guys. i can see many forum members share sufis' ideas and think about them. i expect you to join them and discuss about i d e a s rahther than p e r s o n s to accuse of..........

Feel free to join any of the running discussion. You will see that has been posted was solid argumentation.

:m:

 

[Doomdayx]

I have not simply stated that he is an atheist. I argue why.

bruce wayne, you are playing with words here. in islam you are not allowed to call anyone atheist or infidel or disbeliever unless they accept.

This is not backbiting. Sufi can read this (and does I guess). So nothing in his back. Also I am not just throwing allegations, I backed it up by argument.

you did not ask sufi himself particulalrly if he is an atheist, did you??? so, yours is a simple backbiting. otherwise, you are trying to throw allegations and slanderings on sufi. so, be careful, if you are not able to know the difference. this is not either accepted in the religion of peace, or is it?

Look up my reactions to him, you will see that that is my point in replying to him.

i looked them up. but why don't you?
most of your reactions simply seem as hostile reactions toward another muslim with no sign of respect. this is a shame if not a sin.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

bruce wayne, you are playing with words here. in islam you are not allowed to call anyone atheist or infidel or disbeliever unless they accept.

Since you seem to know so much about Islam. If some says there is no God, do you concider him a Muslim? And what if he says that we are not separate from Allah? I said that the impications of his words amount to being an atheist. I did not out say it out of the blue. As you must be aware I have since leaned to pantheist.

you did not ask sufi himself particulalrly if he is an atheist, did you??? so, yours is a simple backbiting. otherwise, you are trying to throw allegations and slanderings on sufi. so, be careful, if you are not able to know the difference. this is not either accepted in the religion of peace, or is it?

I haven't banned him before the thread, have I? He can respond. He can refute. And I am starting to think he is. Doomdayx, is it true that you only started posting in this thread, to defend sufi?

i looked them up. but why don't you?
most of your reactions simply seem as hostile reactions toward another muslim with no sign of respect. this is a shame if not a sin.

lol I wrote them. Dude read them from the start and you ll see the evolution. If you are not sufi (and I give you the benefit of the doubt), start over here:

http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38117

Also, they are full of valid argumentation, aren't they? I don't see you deny that. And I told you before, go and refute them.

:m:

 

[Doomdayx]

Not about certain things. If a Muslim says there is no prayer in Islam then he is not a Muslim. Certainly ignorantly speaking of Allah would be a greater offence.

where did you read your above allegations? on the contrary, sufi listed a number of lessons from the qur'an telling that everyone of us will only receive the reward of our deeds in the afterlife. i have also read the book sufi suggested. any reader can see that the explanations about allah there is more valid than your separate god insertion.

Since you want to learn from wise men concider this a lesson

Where is that written. Muslims recognise only the Qur'an and Sunna as valid revelation. Could you be so kind to provide us with proof from either.

I am not going to argue with you about it but read these and consider that you maybe missing some lessons from the qur'an:

002.115
To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.

057.003
HHe is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things.

 

[Doomdayx]

I haven't banned him before the thread, have I? He can respond. He can refute. And I am starting to think he is. Doomdayx, is it true that you only started posting in this thread, to defend sufi?

bruce wayne, no offence! why do you consider it as a defence......? i may or may not agree with someone else's ideas. but i just tired to remind you of the forbidden act of backbiting and the holy month of ramadhan at the beginning. but as i see you are not concerned about it at all, but rather you now try to start a battle over me instead of discussing about the matter.
you said you did not throw allegations on sufi(btw, you can see the truth by having a look at your vote), i believe many muslims would keep away from such actions as yours and would do the same for another muslim. i cannot see any wrong in offering other muslims to keep away from commiting sin. it is also my belief that most muslims would welcome sufi's ideas.

 

[path]

Reading over your posts Ddayx reminds me one of the specific things I like about sufi's ideas, namely he doesn't put people into groups like unbelievers, and believers, muslim and kafir, saved and damned. While it seems like those who proclaim to be the true faithful can't seem to escape putting people into groups.

 

[surenderer]

bruce wayne, no offence! why do you consider it as a defence......? i may or may not agree with someone else's ideas. but i just tired to remind you of the forbidden act of backbiting and the holy month of ramadhan at the beginning. but as i see you are not concerned about it at all, but rather you now try to start a battle over me instead of discussing about the matter.
you said you did not throw allegations on sufi(btw, you can see the truth by having a look at your vote), i believe many muslims would keep away from such actions as yours and would do the same for another muslim. i cannot see any wrong in offering other muslims to keep away from commiting sin. it is also my belief that most muslims would welcome sufi's ideas.

I do agree that for one muslim to call another muslim an "unbeliever" is indeed a seroius accusation.......but a much worse one is to be a muslim and to mislead people. Although I have no personal problems with our "Sufi" in these boards his religion is not that of Islam. Islam doesnt have saints(as Sufi's do) Islam doesnt claim to have higher knowledge that even the Prophet(pbuh) didnt have(as Sufi's do) the very fact that they seperate themselves from "regular" muslims itself is against the Koran:

[42.13] He has made plain to you of the religion what He enjoined upon Nuh and that which We have revealed to you and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim and Musa and Isa that keep to obedience and be not divided therein; hard to the unbelievers is that which you call them to; Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases, and guides to Himself him who turns (to Him), frequently


Sufism is popular because you can be a Buddist or a Hindu or whatever else you wanna be and also be an Sufi....but that is unIslamic also:


"Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam..." [2: 19].



Notice when Sufi would post how many times he quoted the Koran compared to how many times he quoted his propoganda books? Which should he depend on more?(goes back to that saint thing i was talking about) Sufism is a blend of various thoughts and philosophies. By putting in a few traces of Islamic teachings with it, the Sufi thinkers attempted to sanctify their doctrines and demonstrate its conformity to Islam Muslims believe that the Prophet (s.a.w.s) is the last of the Prophets, with whom the line of Prophethood is closed. Therefore, anyone who claims to be a prophet or a recipient of Divine revelation is an imposter and an heretic. And besides, it sounds quite eerie for a young man to spend long hours in cemetries "communing with the spirits of the dead." The Prophet (s.a.w.s) was told by Allah: meaning, "And you cannot make those who are in graves to hear. "Indeed, communion of this nature could very well lead to a theory such as pantheism.(as been stated earlier)Sufi's also believe that everything is God but, if nothing exists in reality but God, then every animal, regardless of its family, is in reality god also. And since all existing things have one essence, wine is nothing but water, and every forbidden (haram) thing is lawful or (halal)........Sorry thats not Islam dude :m:

 

[everneo]

You are deeply trapped in semantics, surrenderer.

I do agree that for one muslim to call another muslim an "unbeliever" is indeed a seroius accusation.......but a much worse one is to be a muslim and to mislead people.

Who is misleading or being misled is still being contested by both of you. So, please don't assume a self-righteous position by default.

Although I have no personal problems with our "Sufi" in these boards his religion is not that of Islam. Islam doesnt have saints(as Sufi's do) Islam doesnt claim to have higher knowledge that even the Prophet(pbuh) didnt have(as Sufi's do)

The very fact the prophet is a messanger of God tells that God does not communicate with masses when they are yet not capable of recieving Him. If He finds someone suitable & capable nothing can prevent Him to reveal the truth.

the very fact that they seperate themselves from "regular" muslims itself is against the Koran:

[42.13] He has made plain to you of the religion what He enjoined upon Nuh and that which We have revealed to you and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim and Musa and Isa that keep to obedience and be not divided therein; hard to the unbelievers is that which you call them to; Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases, and guides to Himself him who turns (to Him), frequently

So there is no restriction on Allah as to whom He has to bestow His guidance. Let Him do that to whomsoever He is pleased with.

Sufism is popular because you can be a Buddist or a Hindu or whatever else you wanna be and also be an Sufi

If a buddhist or hindu says sahada then they are no more 'kafirs', right?

....but that is unIslamic also:


"Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam..." [2: 19].

It sounds like "Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Submission..."

Therefore, anyone who claims to be a prophet or a recipient of Divine revelation is an imposter and an heretic.

While the sufi saints did not claim to be prophets, how can you be so sure that Allah does not reveal to anyone whom He is pleased with ?

And besides, it sounds quite eerie for a young man to spend long hours in cemetries "communing with the spirits of the dead." The Prophet (s.a.w.s) was told by Allah: meaning, "And you cannot make those who are in graves to hear. "

You mean the muslims visiting the graves of the sufi saints ? I remember reading that the prophet knows immediately when his name is pronounced with PUBH or otherwise. May be 'you' cannot make them to hear but Allah can make them to hear.

Indeed, communion of this nature could very well lead to a theory such as pantheism.(as been stated earlier)Sufi's also believe that everything is God but, if nothing exists in reality but God, then every animal, regardless of its family, is in reality god also. And since all existing things have one essence, wine is nothing but water, and every forbidden (haram) thing is lawful or (halal)........Sorry thats not Islam dude :m:

That is not sufism either, surrenderer. The immanence of God is to be 'realised' by the will of God, who is transcendental too, to lift the veil that hides the truth. Till then they are mere empty words to say wine and water are God.

 

[surenderer]

Who is misleading or being misled is still being contested by both of you. So, please don't assume a self-righteous position by default.

Umm.....I use the Koran to back up EVERYTHING I say unlike Sufi's who claim to have knowledge only reveled to them....Now that being said Who's being self-righteous again?

The very fact the prophet is a messanger of God tells that God does not communicate with masses when they are yet not capable of recieving Him.

Very true....but remember God also said that Muhamaad(pbuh) was the "seal of the prophets" not the Sufi Saints that came later

If a buddhist or hindu says sahada then they are no more 'kafirs', right?

Well if a Hindu says the Shahada then they keep worshiping idols(or whatever) then of course they arent a muslim(in my opinion)

It sounds like "Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Submission..."

Definatly true

While the sufi saints did not claim to be prophets, how can you be so sure that Allah does not reveal to anyone whom He is pleased with ?

Sufi Saints claim knowledge that nobody else knows. How is that different than a Prophet?But please tell me in their defense....If they are Muslims then why call themselves Sufi's? Why create a sub-religion called Sufism? Why claim knowledge that the Prophet(pbuh) didnt have? This is what is confusing to me

 

[everneo]

Umm.....I use the Koran to back up EVERYTHING I say unlike Sufi's who claim to have knowledge only reveled to them....Now that being said Who's being self-righteous again?

Obviously, the issue remains as sufi does not accept your interpretation of quran.

Very true....but remember God also said that Muhamaad(pbuh) was the "seal of the prophets" not the Sufi Saints that came later

They too did not claim prophethood.

Well if a Hindu says the Shahada then they keep worshiping idols(or whatever) then of course they arent a muslim(in my opinion)

Ironically, sufis were responsible for majority of the conversions to islam in indian sub-continent.

Sufi Saints claim knowledge that nobody else knows. How is that different than a Prophet?

May be a prophet had a grand mission to accomplish.

If they are Muslims then why call themselves Sufi's? Why create a sub-religion called Sufism?

The sufi saints did not call themselves sufis, nor they created sub-religion as such.

Why claim knowledge that the Prophet(pbuh) didnt have?

Did they claim what they know was not known to the Prophet ? In fact they claim their spritual order starting from the Prophet down to their master.

 

[surenderer]

Obviously, the issue remains as sufi does not accept your interpretation of quran.

Sufi's dont accept ALOT of what the Koran says and what doesnt fit their defination of Islam they say their Sufi Masters have some secret interpetation

They too did not claim prophethood.

They dont use the word prophet but look at what they do and say and tell me they dont think that they are

May be a prophet had a grand mission to accomplish.

The Prophet(pbuh) told us his mission...it wasnt some secret James Bond type espionage

The sufi saints did not call themselves sufis, nor they created sub-religion as such.

You are wrong here sir

Did they claim what they know was not known to the Prophet ? In fact they claim their spritual order starting from the Prophet down to their master.

[/QUOTE]



The word “Sufism” was not known at the time of the Messenger or the Sahaabah (companions) or the Taabi’een (Companions of the Companions of the Prophet). It arose at the time when a group of ascetics who wore wool (“soof”) emerged, and this name was given to them. It was also said that the name was taken from the word “soofiya” (“sophia”) which means “wisdom” in Greek. The word is not derived from al-safa’ (“purity”) as some of them claim, because the adjective derived from safa’ is safaa’i, not soofi (sufi). The emergence of this new name and the group to whom it is applied exacerbated the divisions among Muslims.

 

[everneo]

You asked a question :

Sufi Saints claim knowledge that nobody else knows. How is that different than a Prophet?

I answered :

May be a prophet had a grand mission to accomplish.

You say now :

The Prophet(pbuh) told us his mission...it wasnt some secret James Bond type espionage

If you agree that there is a difference between a prophet and a saint, then the sufi saints were not claiming prophethood.

The sufi saints did not call themselves sufis, nor they created sub-religion as such.

You are wrong here sir

May be, care to prove ?

The word “Sufism” was not known at the time of the Messenger or the Sahaabah (companions) or the Taabi’een (Companions of the Companions of the Prophet). It arose at the time when a group of ascetics who wore wool (“soof”) emerged, and this name was given to them. It was also said that the name was taken from the word “soofiya” (“sophia”) which means “wisdom” in Greek. The word is not derived from al-safa’ (“purity”) as some of them claim, because the adjective derived from safa’ is safaa’i, not soofi (sufi). The emergence of this new name and the group to whom it is applied exacerbated the divisions among Muslims.

You cannot expect the mentioning of 'sufi' in quran / haddith to accept them as muslims. It is strange you talk about division among muslims because of sufis. When the whole of Arab world was undergoing relentless never ending bloody wars among themselves (ummayads vs abbasids, sunnis vs shias, fatimids vs ummayads/abbasids, khwarijites vs other muslims etc, and later the mongol invasion that further weakend the muslim world that was already divided on the base of clans, sects etc) the sufis emerged to emphasize universal brotherhood among fellow humans. Hardly i find them dividing muslims then and now.

Edit : i don't know why the smilies appear in the quote.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

where did you read your above allegations?

This was a response to you saying you cannot call someone an atheist. AS much as it shouldn't be done. There are red lines.

on the contrary, sufi listed a number of lessons from the qur'an telling that everyone of us will only receive the reward of our deeds in the afterlife.

This is irrelevant to what I wrote. And even in this case. He says that it would be without standing to be judged before a God separate from you.

AR-RAD (THE THUNDER)

013.006
YUSUFALI: They ask thee to hasten on the evil in preference to the good: Yet have come to pass, before them, (many) exemplary punishments! But verily thy Lord is full of forgiveness for mankind for their wrong-doing, and verily thy Lord is (also) strict in punishment.

PICKTHAL: And they bid thee hasten on the evil rather than the good, when exemplary punishments have indeed occurred before them. But lo! thy Lord is rich in pardon for mankind despite their wrong, and lo! thy Lord is strong in punishment.

SHAKIR: And they ask you to hasten on the evil before the good, and indeed there have been exemplary punishments before them; and most surely your Lord is the Lord of forgiveness to people, notwithstanding their injustice; and most surely your Lord is severe in requiting (evil).

i have also read the book sufi suggested. any reader can see that the explanations about allah there is more valid than your separate god insertion.

ANy reader? l.o.l Why not say that you think that. And that won't eb a problem with me. But, now you speak for ALL readers (?)

I am not going to argue with you about it...

Well, how convenient..

but read these and consider that you maybe missing some lessons from the qur'an:

002.115
To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.

057.003
HHe is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things.

Thx,

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

bruce wayne, no offence! why do you consider it as a defence......? i may or may not agree with someone else's ideas. but i just tired to remind you of the forbidden act of backbiting and the holy month of ramadhan at the beginning.

And I told you why I don't think I am doing that. I did not try to start a battle, I just expressed the fact that he didn't show up and that you came out of the blue to defend him (your alter-ego?) and that you follow the same routine as he does: express outrage, get defensive and evade content discussion.

but as i see you are not concerned about it at all, but rather you now try to start a battle over me instead of discussing about the matter.

you said you did not throw allegations on sufi(btw, you can see the truth by having a look at your vote), i believe many muslims would keep away from such actions as yours and would do the same for another muslim.

You know this is getting quite repetitious. Look up the answer in previous posts.

i cannot see any wrong in offering other muslims to keep away from commiting sin.

And I thank you for doing it, I simply don't agree.

it is also my belief that most muslims would welcome sufi's ideas.

Not from where I see it. But as I already said, you are free to believe whatever you wish.

:m:

 

[surenderer]

If you agree that there is a difference between a prophet and a saint, then the sufi saints were not claiming prophethood

Stop playing with words.....Prophets are different than you or me......Sufi saints claim to have this same knowledge(sometimes more so) that the Prophets had

May be, care to prove ?

I dont know how much you know of Sufi history( i used to study it) but During the sixth century AH, many Sufis who have started their own Turuqh claimed that they were direct descendants of the Messenger of Allah. They did so in order to gain the support and loyalty of the common-folk, so they will be receptive to the Sufi methodology. Thus, many people embraced the Sufi Turuqh, such as the Turuqh of some infamous Sufi teachers as Ar-Rifa'i in Iraq, and Al-Badawi and Ash-Shathili in Egypt. Many other Sufi Turuqh then appeared and spread throughout the Muslim World. - With regards to Allah: The Sufis have different types of belief in Allah. Al-'Hallaj and those who followed his misguided way, believed in incarnation and that Allah's Soul appears in all types of shapes, even animals, such as cows, pigs, donkeys, etc. Allah is praised from the Kufr and Shirk that the disbelievers attribute unto Him. Abu Yazid Al-Bustami, a renowned Sufi teacher said, "Allah once ascended me (meaning to Him!) and raised me between His Hands, and then said to me, 'O Abu Yazid! My creation like to gaze at you.' So I said, 'Bestow Your Oneness unto me, and make me wear Your Selfishness, so that when Your creation see me, they will say, 'We have seen You (meaning Allah),' so You will be him (meaning 1), while I will not be here! "' [Al Luma', p. 461]. (look him up if you dont believe me) :m:

 

[Dudish dude]

Who the hel is sufi?!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The very fact the prophet is a messanger of God tells that God does not communicate with masses when they are yet not capable of recieving Him. If He finds someone suitable & capable nothing can prevent Him to reveal the truth.

Nothing can prevent Allah from doing what he wills. Yet that is not the issue here. As Allah communicated through Mohammed -peace be upon him-, He said:

AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

005.003

YUSUFALI: Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

This means that as this verse was revealed, Islam was complete. So one can claim a better understanding of Islam (, which he has to back up) but cannot say Allah told him how to do it better.

While the sufi saints did not claim to be prophets, how can you be so sure that Allah does not reveal to anyone whom He is pleased with ?

Here it seres to know more of Islam. The word prophet is not accurate in English. It covers two Arabic words: "Rassul" and "Nabi". The first means messenger, the second would prophet. This means we have tos eparate between prophet and messenger. A prophet would be someone that has received revelation. A messenger is someone has received AND that has to spread it. A messenger is a prophet and a prophet is not necessarily a messenger.

AL-AHZAB (THE CLANS, THE COALITION,THE COMBINED FORCES)
033.040
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

PICKTHAL: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

SHAKIR: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.


There is then no one prophet, no one that receives revelation after the prophet. Also it is not needed since religion has been perfected.

My concern however is not with Sufism, for I do no claim that my knowledge encompasses it. Although I heard rather disreputable things about it, I am sure it is not monolithic, certainly if viewed in a historical perspective. It is not even what sufi might or not think, for that is his concern. But what care about is the foundation of his thoughts on the Qur’an and the fact that it is absurd, if we were to view it with logic and if we took the actual words in perspective.

A last thought; this is a site that advocates “tasawuf” which is the original term. Yet this is what they say about sufi’s thoughts, no... ahmed baki’s thoughts.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/basic_whereisgod.htm#conc

Many a ayat in the Quran are used by the liars and heretics to prove their claim that Allah is everywhere. Among them are the verses pointing to Allah's closeness to His Creation to the point of being closer than the jugular vein.

This shows that “Sufism” is not represented by our sufi. Also contrary to our sufi, they go through extensive effort to back up their claims.

:m: