Is Richard Goldstone a liar, an antisemite and a biased hater?

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Lucy, its rather strange that you would respond to some old posts on Goldstone to intimate that they don't matter. I for one, think the Gaza massacre was a turning point in Palestinian history and it will be people like Goldstone, who support Israel, that will be needed to tell the story of the Palestinians.

As for the global significance, the Goldstone report was so insignificant in the US that Congress was required to denounce it, at a time when the US has much bigger internal problems of its own. It will take time for the issue to reach dimensions where its about political opinion in the United States, but in todays climate, to quote Finkelstein, you cannot be young, Jewish and liberal and wear a tee shirt that says Go Israel, because there is the Goldstone report - there is the evidence that Israel went too far.

If the US congress denounces the report then it is indeed insignificant. I don't find any UN report as being significant til it amounts to some form of policy change or governmental push and it has done neither in the US nor Israel because it cannot. The UN doesn't have the power to shift US governmental forces nor change Israeli politics never mind the voluminous reports put out by the UN. Note that Hamas was also denounced in this report but no one seems to find that significant. Telling the story of the Palestinians is now looking like the telling of the story of the trail of tears, except this has and is happened and no one seems to have the power to change it. What do you think will come of the report in your own opinion? Who will it directly impact? Did it change the coming of new policies in Israel regarding the Palestinians in Gaza? Did it stop the new housing developments? Did it stop the rush for Jerusalem? Did it change the new documents law preventing Palestinians who have papers saying they belong in Gaza from traveling to the West Bank? No. The report was written but the status quo remains.

As far as the Gaza massacre being a turning point I would ask you why this massacre is a turning point but none of the others?

Say this for example:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/deir-yassin-remembered/

As in regards to Finkelstein's comments I think he is jumping the gun. I don't think there is any less regard for Israel now than there has been in the past in terms of the average american. I think you overestimate how much of this information actually seeps into the american psyche. I would venture to bet that the average american has never heard of the Goldstone report, meanwhile there are still have radio spots offering americans to invest in Israeli bonds.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

There are many self hating Jews.

The psychological disorder of "Jewish self-loathing" is not the same thing as antisemitism. These people literally hate themselves, not all Jews. They've had to study this, give it a name, and establish group therapy sessions for it, before some of these guys were able to understand that being Jewish was even one of the reasons they hated themselves.

I am however not in the least surprised that the Americans are on the wrong side as usual; I would be majorly surprised if the report even made the news there.

My people in general are not very favorably inclined toward the U.N. In the 1960s it was regarded as a communist conspiracy and there was a strong movement to withdraw from it. Especially since Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan all had individual seats in the U.N. as if they were sovereign countries! Barry Goldwater, the Republican Presidential candidate who was defeated by Lyndon Johnson in 1964, made withdrawal from the U.N. part of his platform.

Even now a widespread opinion is that we provide the lion's share of its operating expenses and we get absolutely nothing for our money, except having to allow despots and dictators to drive through Manhattan to give speeches there.

So whatever goes on in the U.N. is, indeed, not very big news in America. It's considered irrelevant, about as important as one of Hugo Chávez's anti-American rants. I get more of that news from SciForums than I do from my local newspaper, the Washington Post.

 

[StrawDog]

I think Israel and Zionism are stains upon Judaism. They bring no good to Jews, period.

This is the disgraceful face of Zionism. This is the uncompromising, supremacist, hateful face of what modern Israel has come to stand for in its sixty-two years.

Well articulated Tiassa.

That this issue is a blight on Judaism and the integrity of Jewish people is an understatement. That this "good" man, is painted as a "bad" man for speaking truth is an indication of what an insidiously Orwellian world we are living in. Where white is black and war is peace. :m:

 

[spidergoat]

The opposite, pacifism, didn't work out too well the first time. When your people are almost eliminated from the planet, you circle the wagons and make a stand. Israel is the insurance policy against a second holocaust.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Even now a widespread opinion is that we provide the lion's share of its operating expenses and we get absolutely nothing for our money, except having to allow despots and dictators to drive through Manhattan to give speeches there.

The US hasn't payed any of its UN dues in years:


The U.S. arrears issue

The UN has always had problems with members refusing to pay the assessment levied upon them under the United Nations Charter. But the most significant refusal in recent times has been that of the U.S. Since 1985 the U.S. Congress has refused to authorize payment of the U.S. dues, in order to force UN compliance with U.S. wishes, as well as a reduction in the U.S. assessment.

After prolonged negotiations, the U.S. and the UN negotiated an agreement whereby the United States would pay a large part of the money it owes, and in exchange the UN would reduce the assessment rate ceiling from 25% to 22%. The reduction in the assessment rate ceiling was among the reforms contained in the 1999 Helms-Biden legislation, which links payment of $926 million in U.S. arrears to the UN and other international organizations to a series of reform benchmarks.

U.S. arrears to the UN currently total over $1.3 billion. Of this, $612 million is payable under Helms-Biden. The remaining $700 million result from various legislative and policy withholdings; at present, there are no plans to pay these amounts.

Under Helms-Biden, the U.S. paid $100 million in arrears to the UN in December 1999; release of the next $582 million awaits a legislative revision to Helms-Biden, necessary because the benchmark requiring a 25 percent peacekeeping assessment rate ceiling was not quite achieved. The U.S. also seeks elimination of the legislated 25 percent cap on U.S. peacekeeping payments in effect since 1995, which continues to generate additional UN arrears. Of the final $244 million under Helms-Biden, $30 million is payable to the UN and $214 million to other international organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations#The_U.S._arrears_issue

 

[quadraphonics]

You mean I should not assume that the biggest event of the year is front page news everywhere?

What event and year are you referring to?

Neither the Gaza war, nor the Goldstone Report, nor any of the reactions to those have been the biggest events in any of the years that they occurred in - at least on the global scale that would imply front page coverage "everywhere."

His bias is quite clearly towards Israel.

How is it clear that he has any bias in the first place, let alone what its composition is?

Even then, with all his inherent bias and his desire to make this report as easy for Israel as possible

More speculation - if he has "inherent bias" because of his affiliations with the Jewish state, mustn't we also count them against his "inherent bias" flowing from his carrer as a jurist and affiliation with international legal bodies (which bias, presumably, would be towards fairness and accuracy?). This process of imputing bias into people in terms of ethnicity/nationality/religion/whatever is... well, reductive, for starters.

And anyway it's too simplistic by at least half to try to reduce this entire issue to Goldstone's personality.

 

[S.A.M.]

How is it clear that he has any bias in the first place, let alone what its composition is?

He's a Zionist. Having a Zionist jurist oversee the role of Israel in the Gaza massacre is like having a Nazi jurist at the Nuremberg trials.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

He's a Zionist. Having a Zionist jurist oversee the role of Israel in the Gaza massacre is like having a Nazi jurist at the Nuremberg trials.

So someone who believes in their nation and that their nation has a right to be and remain a nation is the same a being a nazi?:bugeye:

 

[S.A.M.]

So someone who believes in their nation and that their nation has a right to be and remain a nation is the same a being a nazi?:bugeye:

He's a South African. A requirement to be a representative of South African Jewry is that they should be Zionist. Nothing to do with nation. Unless nation is defined by race or religion. Which was the basis of Nazism.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

He's a South African. A requirement to be a representative of South African Jewry is that they should be Zionist. Nothing to do with nation. Unless nation is defined by race or religion. Which was the basis of Nazism.

Doesn't matter Sam. You seem to know a lot about this man. He's a jew who feels a connection to Israel am I right? So what difference does it make if he is from south africa? Do you begrudge all those Irish Americans their affinity towards what they call 'the mother land'?

A zionist is defined as "the reestablishment of, development and protection of a jewish nation". They have a sense of national feeling and national identity through the connection with a homeland. What's wrong with that? Don't the Palestinians also have the same feeling in regards to Palestine?

 

[S.A.M.]

I know Irish people who have moved to the states. They were born and brought up in Ireland.


I want to know why Richard Goldstone has to be a Zionist and show loyalty to Israel to attend his grandsons bar mitzvah. In South Africa.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I know Irish people who have moved to the states. They were born and brought up in Ireland. But they are not uncomfortable with immigrant taxidrivers or signs in Irish.

I want to know what makes a person born and brought up in the English language uncomfortable with English signs.

Note I have added to the previous post.

I was speaking of the other way around Sam, irish americans and their feelings towards Ireland. Something also known as 'paddy wacky'. I know of an Irish community in NY known as Broad Channel where its all Irish, completely racist and they have no intention of opening up their community to anyone that isn't of their own. They also have another one in Breezy Point. Its the Breezy Point cooperative, a closed gate community where you have to be 'one of them' to even get in. You have to be invited to cross the bloody bridge for christ sake. Yes all of this in merry ole NY

What you want to know is why ONE man feels uncomfortable with English signs. It has nothing at all to do with jews in general!

If you want to know about Goldstone's personal life why don't you simply contact him? Why ask it so broadly as if we have a window into his life?

 

[S.A.M.]

So you are saying Irish Americans and their feelings towards Ireland is the same as Brooklyn/Miami Jews and their feelings towards Israel?

Is Irish = Jewish?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

So you are saying Irish Americans and their feelings towards Ireland is the same as Brooklyn/Miami Jews and their feelings towards Israel?

Is Irish = Jewish?

Don't be an ass. Does an african american who takes a trip to africa and has this emotional spiritual experience of being finally 'at home' equate to 'jewish'? Its a diaspora syndrome Sam.

There are indeed some Irish Americans who feel a deep affinity towards Ireland yes. They consider themselves Irish even though they be americans.

 

[S.A.M.]

Does an african american who takes a trip to africa and has this emotional spiritual experience of being finally 'at home' equate to 'jewish'?

You tell me. Are there African Americans who feel that their nation is Africa? That they must be loyal to an African state to belong to their community in the US?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You tell me. Are there African Americans who feel that their nation is Africa?

Some have gone to make it there nation. Ever hear of Liberia? Know anything of its history and the 'aliyah' of african americans to that place and the ensuing friction it has caused in the past with the locals who were there?

Here:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/libhtml/liberia.html

Knock yourself out.

1815- African-American Quaker and maritime entrepreneur Paul Cuffee (or Cuffe) financed and captained a successful voyage to Sierra Leone where he helped a small group of African-American immigrants establish themselves. Cuffee believed that African Americans could more easily "rise to be a people" in Africa than in America with its system of slavery and its legislated limits on black freedom.


1847- On July 26, The Liberian Declaration of Independence was adopted and signed. In it, Liberians charged their mother country, the United States, with injustices that made it necessary for them to leave and make new lives for themselves in Africa. They called upon the international community to recognize the independence and sovereignty of Liberia. Britain was one of the first nations to recognize the new country.

1865- 346 immigrants from Barbados joined the small number of African Americans coming to Liberia after the American Civil War. With overseas immigration slowing to a trickle, the Americo-Liberians (as the settlers and their descendents were starting to be called) depended on immigrants from nearby regions of Africa to increase the republic's population. The Americo-Liberians formed an elite and perpetuated a double-tiered social structure in which local African peoples could not achieve full participation in the nation's social, civic, and political life. The Americo-Liberians replicated many of the exclusions and social differentiations that had so limited their own lives in the United States.


Hmmm. Sounds very familiar to me.

Oh yes and even today:

"Black Americans residing in the United States of America can automatically declare Liberian Citizenship by simply immigrating to Liberia, and still retain their United States Citizenship, thus; the dual citizenship."

http://www.tlcafrica.com/article_dual_citizenship.htm


So Sam are they like, bad black jews?:bugeye:

Try and grow up and learn that the experience in that very small area of the world you call Israel or Palestine what have you isn't the only fucking experience in history.

PALESTINE WAS LOST! GET OVER IT!

 

[S.A.M.]

What did they do with the native Liberians?

Richard Goldstone is an Ashkenazi Jew, should he feel more German than South African?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

What did they do with the native Liberians?

Richard Goldstone is an Ashkenazi Jew, should he feel more German than South African?

They turned them into second class citizens in their own country and dominated them, two tiered them. You would know that if you bothered to read the link or even the three highlights I posted for you.

" The Americo-Liberians formed an elite and perpetuated a double-tiered social structure in which local African peoples could not achieve full participation in the nation's social, civic, and political life. The Americo-Liberians replicated many of the exclusions and social differentiations that had so limited their own lives in the United States."

No he should feel Ashkenazi, or maybe he just feels like Mr. Goldstone. Why don't you email him?

 

[S.A.M.]

They turned them into second class citizens in their own country and dominated them, two tiered them

Are we talking about Germany, South Africa or Palestine?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Are we talking about Germany, South Africa or Palestine?

Liberia in Africa. You know all the african americans who returned to 'their home' and established it as 'theirs'. Have your eyes failed you that you can no longer read the posts?

Maybe the information is confusing you since you tend to suffer from a neurotic tunnel vision that only allows you to identify certain behaviours among jews alone

You know, black zionists