Yes, but my concern isn't if you practice or value either (praying/TV) of those things. My concern is people who call praying for fifteen minutes obsessive-compulsive, yet see no need to criticize the fact that their own nation is disgustingly obese and watches television six hours a day, after coming home from McDonals.
Is Muslim Mentality Psychologically Disordered?
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Yes, but my concern isn't if you practice or value either (praying/TV) of those things. My concern is people who call praying for fifteen minutes obsessive-compulsive, yet see no need to criticize the fact that their own nation is disgustingly obese and watches television six hours a day, after coming home from McDonals.
Oh please, Empty. You know better then that. Just because the books are evil doesn't mean the people are evil too. Most people don't stone others for being homossexuals or women for cheating on their husbands. (Well, maybe the stoning of women DOES happen in the middle east, but it is a generalization to assume that all of them are like that.)
Yes. There ya go.
Yo. I already said I agree with you. And my criticism is not in the amount of time, it is much more on the precision of the times that the prayers happen. For example, praying at exactly this time and exactly that time regadless of what is happening.
Also, let's talk about other issues. For instance, fasting. Is fasting healthy? I suppose it could be used to purify your body? But it could also cause kytoses, which is unhealthy. Most importantly, is the fasting done for the sake of tradition or you actually have a real purpose in mind, other then following the directions of others without questioning those directions?
The Prayer times are between certain times of the day; the call to prayer (adhaan) indicates the time when that portion of the day assigned to a particular prayer starts.
There are 5 obligatory prayers which are performed at particular points in the day:
Fajr (before sunrise)- immediately upon waking; those who pray this prayer on time are likely to be early risers and begin their day early
Dohr (noon) when you take a break at noon, from work, before lunch usually
Asr (afternoon) - when you are wrapping up work or school
Maghrib (sunset) - its the end of another day, time to relax
Isha (at night) - just before bedtime, its a time to reflect on the day before you sleep.
The prayers are situated at the points in the day that ensure a regularity of routine and provide some time to break from whatever you are engaged in and take some time to yourself. They are also very good exercise, Muslims are pretty flexible well into their old age from the motions performed during prayer.
Of these only the fajr and maghrib prayer have a short prayer interval; the others extend for the duration of the part of the day.
Fasting in Muslims also follows rules designed to ensure health.
e.g. one does not fast on an empty stomach, suhoor is required for all fasts and is taken before sunrise. iftaar follows at sunset, so one rarely has to fast more than 12 hours.
The main aim of fasting in Ramadan is not just avoidance of meals: it is a complete fast of the senses, one must control thoughts words as well as deeds for the fast to be correct.
Hence if during Ramadan, someone tries to irritate or offend, the correct response is, "I am fasting" (ie I will not reciprocate in the same manner).
Ramadan is a time of self evaluation, when you watch your own thoughts words and deeds, in an attempt to gauge your ability to fast.
The deprivation of food, water and sex, as well as the necessity of carrying on with your daily tasks, also contributes to developing mental strength.
No Muslim who fasts can be unaware of what it means to be hungry, thirsty, tired and mindful of what he must think, say and do.
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Actually christianity does say ''death to those that sleep with a man as if it were a woman'' and death for adultery
Old testament
You are wrong.
Also, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE MOSLIM that these things happen. It 's all to do with the current culture. Whether Iran were christian or moslim, they would still be extremists
if you follow an evil book that would make you evil, all i was doing was comparing islam to christianity. and its true they are basicaly the same, they both preach killing of innocent people.
and yes people are stoned in the middle eat (by muslims) for being homosexual, and for cheating on husbands. you have moderate christians and moderate muslims, but they dont follow the religion how it tells you to in the book. they pick and choose what to act upon and might aswell not be called christians or muslims. if you say you follow a book but only moderately what does that even mean? you follow the parts you want but not the rest?, why even follow the book atall, you might aswell make you own mind up about what is right and wrong and follow that. if you have the sense to follow some of the book because the rest you dont agree with, why not just scrap the book and go with what you agree with in your heart anyway?
i have lots of muslim friends, and i will tell you guys what i tell them, the quran is stupid as a whole, and so is the bible. they are not peacefull books, and anybody who is a neutral bystander and has read them will tell you the same.
have you even read the bible and quran cover to cover? be honest. i respect the peacefull good parts of the book, but you cant ignore the evil sinister side of it and turn a blind eye.
religion causes wars man cant you see that, its not healthy to believe in a book like muslims and christians do, look at how people even act on this forum to see a prime example of that. and look at the state of the middle east at the moment. its all because of religion when you get to the root cause. dont turn a blind eye to seem polite and accepting of muslims or christians. whats the point of following a religion half hearted? why not just scrap it and start fresh with modern up to date ideas that work for todays world. if you need a book to tell you what is right and wrong i feel sorry for you.
peace.
whats the difference between your allah, and the christian god?. it seems i have studied the quran more than you have.
because int he quran allah even states that they are the same god, and allah was pissed that people said jesus was his son. because allah stated that he cannot have a son of flesh and bone, and it is an insult to allah. because he is beyond flesh and man. jesus was a messenger of god the same as mohhamed, and not the son of god.
allah and god are the same, the quran is supposed to be a correction and add on to the bible, not a different set of beliefs and text. they are the same with minor corrections.
peace.
Of course, Judaism christianity and Islam are brother religions, with a sort of "add-on". Think of these three religions as software which I would label:
Judaism: v.1.0
Christianity (after an update): v.1.1
Islam (after an update): v.1.2
thats how i see it aswell, but muslims, christians and jews never unite and achieve anything together. instead they bicker about minor differences. totaly missing the fact that they are so simular and actualy work towards the same goals.
if all jews muslims and christians stuck together and united as one religion, they would wipe out many wars, double in size and power, and make parts of the worl a better place to live. they all preach understanding, peace and love in many ways, but you dont see much of that when it comes to how they treat people from other religious groups.
peace.
Oh really? I suggest you watch the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3dYs14_Nt0&watch_response
And what did I say!?!?!? You just reworded what I just said....! :shrug:
Well, some parts of them, ya... not all though...
I know that. But there are a lot of muslims and christians that don't do that. So you shouldn't generalize.
It's a good point. But I think that's often done to satisfy a need ot belonging. You would probably not understand this because you probably never lived outside your own country...
Also, parts of it may be logical to follow while others may not.
Well, you shouldn't completely demonize the books. What can you learn from those books?
No, I haven't.
I'm the same. And that's all that I ask from you.
I know that. But demonizing their religion only makes it worse. You have to respect their opinions. It is part of who they are. Just because you respect them, doesn't mean you have to agree with them.
No. Not at all. Religion is only used as an excuse. Take the moderates, as you said earlier. They pick and choose. People have opinions. They only use religion as an excuse to justify those opinions. Furthermore, the situation in the middle east have very little to do with the religions. At the end of WWII, Britain deslocated thousands of palestinians and put the jews right in the middle of the middle east, forming Israel. That's when the conflict started. Pay attention to what Bush and others say sometimes. One of their goals is to protect Israel.
You are making a bad assumption. I don't turn a blind eye. In fact, I watch very carefully both sides of the discussion and I try to see both perspectives from a neutral unbiased perspective.
Unfortunately, it is not that easy. Take S.A.M.'s last post, for instance. The whole thing could be replaced by conventional language. Instead, it is filled with muslim dialect. You have to learn to appreciate what is behind the religion, the logic behind it. I agree with you. It would be nice if we could all talk the same language. Unfortunately, the internet is a modern invention. We were all born far away and have sharply different perspectives. With the advent of the internet we will be constantly forced to handle our differences in a more diplomatic way. Eventually, the whole world will speak one language in unison. Take Switzerland, for instance. A small country. But just because of the mountains, it was a divided country for centuries. Once they connected and started communicating, they slowly started understanding each other, and eventually, they became united. So will the whole world one day (fingers crossed). It's a long arduos process, though.
I agree with you. So why hate them?
This is all nice SAM, but unfortunately a lot of muslims only follows those things just because the books says so. They don't know the real reason behind them. It's all for the sake of tradition, for the sake of following someone that died centuries ago. I think that, in particular, is just plain dumb and stupid.
I wish all muslims had the same amount of knowledge you have. Then there wouldn't be no more beheadings, no more stoning women for adultery, no more controlling women, abusing them, raping them, scalping children's heads, bombing people and buildings, controlling women,.........
Also, why not just follow what is behind the scriptures? Come up to someone and say "sometimes we should take some time to reflect on ourselves". And why does the Ramadan is in only one month of the year? Why aren't human beings capable of wathcing their thoughts and deeds? Isn't that CRUCIAL for our survival as a species?
And why do you have to pray looking towards Mecca!? I still don't understand the logic behind that. :shrug:
Oh, and for the love of Allah, why do muslims worship the big black cube as opposed to the God who is within them!?!?!?!? Sorry, I simply don't get that!!!!! 
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:wtf:
Praying towards Mecca has no significance in itself.
What it means is that since the time is different in all parts of the world as the earth rotates, at all times of the day, a Muslim somewhere in the world is praying one of the prayers, and even if he is not physically present in Mecca, he is praying in the direction of it, using it as qibla. So Muslims pray not to Mecca, but to God while facing Mecca.
Why towards Mecca?
For several reasons:
1. The black stone in Mecca is a commemorative of the initial foundation put down by Abraham when he became monotheist; there is a Muqaam-e Ibrahim (or the place of Abraham in Mecca, where Muslims remember Abraham, and pray two rakats on his behalf, and recognise that all Muslims, Christians, Jews came from Abraham) near the black stone of Mecca
2. Mecca is where the house of Abraham was converted to idolatory, so it is a remembrance of the ease with which belief can slip into superstition.
3. Mecca is where all Muslims are the same, it is a place where Muslims of all color, class, ethnicity and gender (or sexual orientation) pray in the same place. It is amusing to me that the Saudis do not recognise the hypocrisy of keeping women in full cover and having separate laws for natives and foreign workers, when every single day in Mecca, the women praying alongside the men and all people of all the world praying together is proof that this was not how Mohammed taught it.
So one more reason for having Mecca asa focus is to be aware of such hypocrisy and attempt to move beyond it.
It is also the reason why Haj is a pillar of Islam, so people will go to the place where their religion began and become interested in learning about it.
But as you say, most people don't study the religion, merely follow what other people say. This is evidenced by the fact that the black stone is now decorated with a sheet (duh!)
and you need to prove you are a Muslim to enter Mecca a practice started by the Sauds after they took over Mecca.Otherwise the stone in Mecca is similar to the Foundation stone, a piece of history that gives continuity to the religion and keeps all Muslims united as one people. Muslims also perform the slaughter of animals in the direction of the qibla and when they die they are buried facing the qibla, they also sleep in the same way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Stone
4. It is easy to identify from different places on the planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla
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Actually the prayer times are followed from the Prophet, they are not written anywhere. Traditionally, Muslims do what the Prophet did as they believe his way would be the best way, however, withing that framework, all Muslim prayers are not identical (many Muslims pray more than five times a day, or have additional nafil prayers as they so wish). There are different schools of thought, and one can choose which one to follow, mostly though, people just do what they they learn from their family or teachers. In Mecca, you follow the imam.
Which is why I ask all Muslims I meet to study their religion properly and independently, not follow what other people say. There are humdreds and thousands of opinions about every single point of Islam, but ultimately what you choose to decide on, should be because after reading as much as you can, you felt that based on your knowledge of Islam, your choice reflects what the Quran tries to teach you.
I advise you to try the Ramadan fast for a month. It is a tremendous experience, one that is impossible to do on a regular basis. But its like an all fruit diet, if you do it for a month every year, you'll eat more fruit at other times, than if you just have a Dietary Recommendations telling you to eat 5 servings of fruit or because you know that fruit is better for you than fries.
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So people don't worship the black stone? Or some do? Because that would be quite ironic given what you said about idolatry....
How would you prove you are a muslim?
And what is your favorite scripture, SAM?
How would you prove you are a muslim?
And what is your favorite scripture, SAM?
Yea, homosexuality and the Bible. Like the Old Testament, " Death to those that sleep with a man as if it were a woman" you're right, there IS homosexuality in the Bible, but it is condemned, discouraged, and punishable by death.
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