Is it bad to believe in god?

[superluminal]

It is a bad thing because believing in anything (of consequence that is) without the slightest shred of reasonable evidence is bad. Any idea attributed to a god cannot be refuted, so can therefore be used as a justification for anything you want. There is zero accountability for god. Don't eat this, don't wear that, kill these people... Why? Because god said so. Bullshit.

 

[Norsefire]

To answer the OP,

I don't believe that a belief in a god is an inherently bad thing. After all, there are plenty of different religions out there that are a lot less vile than the Abrahamic ones. Still, I think it would be best not to believe. I think religion generally tethers us to outdated dogmas, and unfortunately, you can't really separate the dogma from the faith. Religion also makes us less accepting as a society, and often the religious groups are the last ones left fighting against positive societal change.

Pure opinion; what is "positive" and "negative"? How accepting should we be? Where do we draw limits? Religion is a useful guideline for social structure

It is a bad thing because believing in anything (of consequence that is) without the slightest shred of reasonable evidence is bad.

Why?

Any idea attributed to a god cannot be refuted, so can therefore be used as a justification for anything you want. There is zero accountability for god. Don't eat this, don't wear that, kill these people... Why? Because god said so. Bullshit.

And therein lies the value of religion: social structure and order. However, that is not necessarily always the case, of course.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Pure opinion; what is "positive" and "negative"? How accepting should we be? Where do we draw limits? Religion is a useful guideline for social structure

Why?

And therein lies the value of religion: social structure and order. However, that is not necessarily always the case, of course.

Totally absurd.

 

[Norsefire]

Totally correct; religion provides a useful social boundary. Where else can we derive order?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Religion is disorder. Pure & simple.

 

[superluminal]

It is a bad thing because believing in anything (of consequence that is) without the slightest shred of reasonable evidence is bad.

Why?

Why?
Because anything and everything can become the basis for a worldview or paradigm no matter who it hurts:

- Jews are bad (Nazis)
- People who don't believe as us are bad (xians, muslims, etc)
- People with light hair are better (Nazis again)
- Black people are inferior (Any bigoted "group" you care to name, including those already listed)

Can you support any of these claims with solid evidence that demonstrates their truth? No? Ok then.

And therein lies the value of religion: social structure and order. However, that is not necessarily always the case, of course.

This makes no sense. You agree but disagree?

Look, no one alive has ever seen god come down and deliver some edicts on when it's OK to eat fish. All you or anyone has is the testimony of others. You decide to believe them, for personal reasons. Nothing more.

You don't have faith in god. No one does, because you have never spoken directly to god. You have faith in the words of other humans. That's all. Because you're afraid and it gives you comfort.

You put your trust in the claims of other people because, like most humans, you have a built-in instinct to submit to the will of a dominant member of society.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You put your trust in the claims of other people because, like most humans, you have a built-in instinct to submit to the will of a dominant member of society.

Great to see someone in addition to me saying this.

You don't have faith in god. No one does, because you have never spoken directly to god. You have faith in the words of other humans. That's all. Because you're afraid and it gives you comfort. QUOTE]

WOW! I've thought of this but never phrased it half as well.

 

[Norsefire]

Why?
Because anything and everything can become the basis for a worldview or paradigm no matter who it hurts:

- Jews are bad (Nazis)
- People who don't believe as us are bad (xians, muslims, etc)
- People with light hair are better (Nazis again)
- Black people are inferior (Any bigoted "group" you care to name, including those already listed)

Can you support any of these claims with solid evidence that demonstrates their truth? No? Ok then.

Those are philosophical claims, they do not require evidence. I agree, though, that religion can be easily misused, but again, that isn't always the case.

This makes no sense. You agree but disagree?

Look, no one alive has ever seen god come down and deliver some edicts on when it's OK to eat fish. All you or anyone has is the testimony of others. You decide to believe them, for personal reasons. Nothing more.

You don't have faith in god. No one does, because you have never spoken directly to god. You have faith in the words of other humans. That's all. Because you're afraid and it gives you comfort.

You put your trust in the claims of other people because, like most humans, you have a built-in instinct to submit to the will of a dominant member of society.

You're quite correct, but I'd like to think that the people speaking of God have reason to, and originally people did indeed observe or undestand something that led to their conclusion of God.

And as I said, religion provides social order.

 

[(Q)]

And as I said, religion provides social order.

What you repeat is meaningless unless you can demonstrate, then you'll no longer have to repeat yourself. *hint hint*

 

[Norsefire]

What you repeat is meaningless unless you can demonstrate, then you'll no longer have to repeat yourself. *hint hint*

It's already been demonstrated; religion provides certain codes of behavior and guidelines for lifestyle. Society needs accepted norms and religion provides them.

 

[(Q)]

It's already been demonstrated; religion provides certain codes of behavior and guidelines for lifestyle. Society needs accepted norms and religion provides them.

Once again, repeating the same nonsense over and over...

 

[Norsefire]

Once again, repeating the same nonsense over and over...

Please show me how a society can operate without common ground among the people.

 

[(Q)]

Please show me how a society can operate without common ground among the people.

 

[Norsefire]

And that's relevant how...?

 

[(Q)]

And that's relevant how...?

Brain not working... must fight to turn it on... Islam winning... damn!

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Those are philosophical claims, they do not require evidence. I agree, though, that religion can be easily misused, but again, that isn't always the case.
QUOTE]

Religion is usually misused.

You're quite correct, but I'd like to think that the people speaking of God have reason to, and originally people did indeed observe or undestand something that led to their conclusion of God.

And as I said, religion provides social order.

I'd like to think, I can't believe, I'd hate it if, I know it in my heart, I can't accept, I can't get my head around it

 

[Norsefire]

Brain not working... must fight to turn it on... Islam winning... damn!

Opression is subjective, and indeed in any society with accepted norms (which is all of them), there will always be "opression". "Tolerance" and society don't go hand in hand.

Those are philosophical claims, they do not require evidence. I agree, though, that religion can be easily misused, but again, that isn't always the case.

Religion is usually misused.

No, I'd say that whenever religion is misused, it tends to be in a dramatic, loud way and therefore we focus more on those times; however, I don't think religion is "usually misused".

 

[superluminal]

It's already been demonstrated; religion provides certain codes of behavior and guidelines for lifestyle. Society needs accepted norms and religion provides them.

Almost right. Society needs accepted norms and religions provide bad ones, like this:

What is so terrifying about using evidence based reason to guide a society? So far, religion seems to be a horrible detriment to society because it forces arbitrary "norms" on people.

What is "normal" or good about draping sackcloth over your women? Or not eating certain kinds of meat? On certain days? Or using coersion to convert masses of people to your way of thinking? (no, there are no atheist missionaries, despite what Sam, et al will try to argue).

 

[Norsefire]

Almost right. Society needs accepted norms and religions provide bad ones

In your opinion

What is so terrifying about using evidence based reason to guide a society? So far, religion seems to be a horrible detriment to society because it forces arbitrary "norms" on people.

Guiding society requires philosophy, and you cannot use evidence for philosophy.

What is "normal" or good about draping sackcloth over your women? Or not eating certain kinds of meat? On certain days? Or using coersion to convert masses of people to your way of thinking? (no, there are no atheist missionaries, despite what Sam, et al will try to argue).

They provide limits. Limits are required for society.

 

[Jessabeans]

i would like to know when I would die. Then, i may change my priorities. If I would die in two years, maybe I would quit college and live with the man I'm going to marry NOW, until waiting until I'm closer to death. One example. Also, it is hard for me to "know" anything. Most things are just theories and possibilities to me, some less likely than others. For me to see scientific evidence as "proof" I'd have to put some faith into the flawlessness of that evidence. And God, well I think if there is a God he may just be too much for the human mind to understand, thus the lack of hard evidence that many scientists cite to be "proof" that God doesn't exist. After all, can all animals see the same colors we see? Does that mean. . .let's say, the color blue. . .doesn't exist? Do you think gerbils will ever understand the reason that they are breathing? I'm just saying, just because humans don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't there.
But, a lot of scientists continuously seek answers to things humans don't currently understand. Even so, are scientists key to all the answers?

I don't mean any hate, just things running through my mind