Is Hate Delusional Thinking?

[NMSquirrel]

Originally Posted by S.A.M.
I did an animal study on irrational outbursts. When provoked, they bite you. Its mindless, defensive behaviour. They have no choice but to respond.

How is that different from human behavior?

ppl tend to focus way too much on their emotional state of being, so they tend to react to situations instead of stopping to think and choosing a course of action..
(look at all the ppl here who just point out whats wrong with everyone else..then get all defensive when you call them on it....)

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Or love for that matter? Or a product of delusional thinking? I thought of this when I read SAM's 'Do Atheists have a God Complex' thread this morning. I don't hate theists, I pity them. Maybe hate is too strong a word but I believe SAM at least detests atheism. Detest being a harbinger of hate.

Hate for someone never seems to be instantaneous. Never hear that "it was hate at first sight'. So it kind of builds momentum. Same with love. Can love and hate be anything other than delusional thinking if the object of these affections doesn't reciprocate.

Getting back to the theist/atheist relationship...who is more likely to hate the other? Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that emotions such as hate & love are normal, everyday rational thoughts. Hate and love are accumulative, it takes a series of occurences to firmly establish themselves.

When I write about theists do I come across as hating them? If you think that then why? If you think I am anti religious out of spite then isn't that very thought hateful of me in some respect? I'm just using myself as an example of an atheist here so don't think I'm harboring any irrational fears, far from the truth.

Personally I can't hate the delusional theist. Are the deluded more prone to hate? If so, then in a world that's approximately 90% delusional it is not surprising to see a lot of it. Yes I expect a few theists to see my remarks and take it as a hate-thread, but isn't thinking that thought somewhat hateful of me or at least a step in that direction?

Comments?

*************
M*W: To me, I have an intense curiosity about theists and why they believe what they do. To me, their beliefs are a delusion. Of course, that's what they believe about atheists. The difference is that they believe their diety actually exists. Atheists just don't have that delusion.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: I've always considered fear to be the opposite of love. It is out of fear that all phobias emerge.

It is still my opinion that reading, writing and religions, were all created for man's entertainment purposes only.

 

[Doreen]

First this does not belong in comparative religion. Either it belongs in religion, if it is really an atheist vs. theist OP - which later posts seem to indicate - or in Human Sciences if it is about what the title of the thread indicates.

Or love for that matter? Or a product of delusional thinking? I thought of this when I read SAM's 'Do Atheists have a God Complex' thread this morning. I don't hate theists, I pity them. Maybe hate is too strong a word but I believe SAM at least detests atheism. Detest being a harbinger of hate.

I think one can hate something without being delusional. I don't think, for example, hating a poison ivy rash needs some delusional thinking to get it going. Some hatred of other people is fueled by thinking, often messed up thinking. Racist propaganda functions this way. But some hatred of other people is a response to their behavior or lack of certain kinds of behavior.

Hate for someone never seems to be instantaneous. Never hear that "it was hate at first sight'.

I've hated at first sight. Generally the person must being doing somethign I abhor. This reaction is not something I cling to. I certainly give people second chances and third ones. But I have felt hatred instantly for people. And I have felt love for people instantly - though usually children or animals - I know the latter aren't people, but, really, we are all animals.

So it kind of builds momentum. Same with love. Can love and hate be anything other than delusional thinking if the object of these affections doesn't reciprocate.

Sure. Ask a parent about love. And ask a woman being stalked by a man who loves her about hate.

Getting back to the theist/atheist relationship...who is more likely to hate the other? Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that emotions such as hate & love are normal, everyday rational thoughts.

They aren't thoughts, though peopel often confuse them with thoughts and vice versa.

Personally I can't hate the delusional theist. Are the deluded more prone to hate? If so, then in a world that's approximately 90% delusional it is not surprising to see a lot of it. Yes I expect a few theists to see my remarks and take it as a hate-thread, but isn't thinking that thought somewhat hateful of me or at least a step in that direction?

Well, if you are taking the rational, atheist position - for example that assertions must be backed up by evidence - you would need to present some evidence that theists are more hateful that non-theists.

 

[Doreen]

*************
M*W: I've always considered fear to be the opposite of love. It is out of fear that all phobias emerge.

If I am afraid of what might happen to my child it is not the opposite of love. If I am walking down the street and see five men walking toward me all go silent and stare at me, my fear is a form of self-care. There is no reason to say that fear is not love, since it often is love or comes from love. It is concern turned up a few notches. And there is a lot out there to turn concern up a few notches.

 

[ScaryMonster]

Or love for that matter? Or a product of delusional thinking? I thought of this when I read SAM's 'Do Atheists have a God Complex' thread this morning. I don't hate theists, I pity them. Maybe hate is too strong a word but I believe SAM at least detests atheism. Detest being a harbinger of hate.

Hate for someone never seems to be instantaneous. Never hear that "it was hate at first sight'. So it kind of builds momentum. Same with love. Can love and hate be anything other than delusional thinking if the object of these affections doesn't reciprocate.

Getting back to the theist/atheist relationship...who is more likely to hate the other? Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that emotions such as hate & love are normal, everyday rational thoughts. Hate and love are accumulative, it takes a series of occurences to firmly establish themselves.

When I write about theists do I come across as hating them? If you think that then why? If you think I am anti religious out of spite then isn't that very thought hateful of me in some respect? I'm just using myself as an example of an atheist here so don't think I'm harboring any irrational fears, far from the truth.

Personally I can't hate the delusional theist. Are the deluded more prone to hate? If so, then in a world that's approximately 90% delusional it is not surprising to see a lot of it. Yes I expect a few theists to see my remarks and take it as a hate-thread, but isn't thinking that thought somewhat hateful of me or at least a step in that direction?

Comments?

I have no opinion about god, as far as I see it the notion of God i.e. the creator, lawgiver and judge and absolute authority is fiction.
I hate organized religion; I see it as one of the most divisive and destructive forces in human history.
In essence god is dead, human beings if they only would think for themselves are beyond the judgments of deities created by primitive savages.
And as I see it the god of the Old Testament is a destructive force, but still is only a fairy tale.

 

[Bebelina]

I think this whole discussion is faulty to begin with, because love and hate are feelings, not delusional thinking.

 

[(Q)]

Religion gives worth and meaning to life.

No, it gives worth and meaning to submission, obedience and worship to an imaginary being, which has little to do with real life.

I've noticed that when atheists are offended, they paint theists as fanatics, bigots, haters.

Yes, the fanaticism, bigotry and hatred of your cult is most certainly offensive.

When theists are offended, its because they want to block freedom of expression. So from the atheist point of view, its alright for them to be as ofensive and hateful as they like, in the name of being "free" and "rational". But if they are treated the same way, or sometimes, not even that, a wink and a greeting, it is made out to be a grievous insult to their entire identity or ludicrously still, the whole of atheism.

That would be the wink and greeting that follows up fanaticism, bigotry and hatred. An extra knife in the back, so to speak.

I think atheists lack perspective. I think the reason they are atheists is because they are literal thinkers; they simply cannot understand points of view which seem perfectly obvious to me.

Obvious, like talking with animals?

Then why aren't animals theists? There will be no "last vestiges" of theism as long as there are human beings/

I have often noticed this in discussions, where a theist will say one thing which seems very clear and inspite of being explained over and over, the atheist simply cannot understand it. They seem to be incapable of thinking on anything other than a literal plain. Once I realised this, I also realised the futility of attempting to explain anything to them. Its like showing a red rose to a colour blind person. He cannot appreciate its beauty, its all gray to him.

Showing something real like a red rose is much different than showing nothing at all and still arguing there's something actually there.

I don't hate atheists, I just hate assholes.

You are an asshole yourself.

Anyone who is incapable of according even nominal respect in a discussion should not be surprised if they are treated according to the samskara they display.

You provide very good examples of that yourself, Mrs Pot.

Even atheists know this, they would never act the way they do anonymously on this forum, in real life. Not without consequences. Which is why they deceive people in reality, by playing a role of being polite and respectful, which they drop once they are anonymous. Its made me wonder what the atheists around me, that I meet are really like in their hearts and minds. How much of what they show is real and not a deception.

And, you WOULD act the way you do, Mrs Pot?

There is little reason for an atheist to be deceptive. Since theists are unable to demonstrate a single claim, don't you think theists are the ones who are being deceptive?

 

[NMSquirrel]

I think this whole discussion is faulty to begin with, because love and hate are feelings, not delusional thinking.

which would bring up the question of how much value should we assign to our feelings?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I think this whole discussion is faulty to begin with, because love and hate are feelings, not delusional thinking.

The thread title was just a question. With your answer you obviously think not. Where is the fault?

Are we to consider your response as part of the discussion?

 

[(Q)]

Well, if you are taking the rational, atheist position - for example that assertions must be backed up by evidence - you would need to present some evidence that theists are more hateful that non-theists.


I've hated at first sight.

Seems, you had the evidence all along.

 

[(Q)]

let me ask those who have read at least 100 of my post or more than just this thread( of my posts)...do i really come across as the typical theist that everyone bitches about????

Without a shadow of a doubt.

What's confusing about your claim to not be religious, not be the typical theist, is that if there were only one god, you'd most certainly want everyone else to share that belief, and that god, hence you would by default be that typical theist.

Why is it that you want total and complete independence from religion, yet still believe in one god? That simply makes no sense.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Without a shadow of a doubt.

What's confusing about your claim to not be religious, not be the typical theist, is that if there were only one god, you'd most certainly want everyone else to share that belief, and that god, hence you would by default be that typical theist.

Why is it that you want total and complete independence from religion, yet still believe in one god? That simply makes no sense.

it does when you think about your own attitude against god and if your honest with yourself you would realize it doesnt come from god but from the beleivers who you don't respect (the ones trying to establish their own sense of worth by forcing their opinions on you..)(again this apllies to both sides of the issue)

 

[Doreen]

Seems, you had the evidence all along.

I'm not sure what you meant.

 

[Bebelina]

which would bring up the question of how much value should we assign to our feelings?

For some it's a matter of admitting they have feelings to begin with, and other live by them completely. Some people are afraid to feel and make mental constructions around their feelings to keep them at a minimum. Like in a acute survival situation, ,and also very common, as an everyday standard procedure. It's a situation based reaction, and of course very individual. Then we have the emo-junkies.

Feelings should be attended, they are physical reactions to a situation and if you ignore them you are missing out on essential clues to whatever you were thinking.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If in your mind the decision is made to believe in something there is no proof of then it is delusional thinking. If the delusion is expanded to include a religion that eventually instigates hate between others with the same delusion then that hate is a product of delusional thinking.

Is the actual thought to hate, a delusion? Hate between theistic groups requires a shared delusion before it can take shape. Unfortunately the delusion is not recognized as such by the participants. Therefore a member of the hating factions is probably not delusional about their directed hate. I say probably because it is debatable whether or not the hate that has festered in the deluded mind is considered delusional by default.

 

[(Q)]

it does when you think about your own attitude against god and if your honest with yourself you would realize it doesnt come from god but from the beleivers who you don't respect (the ones trying to establish their own sense of worth by forcing their opinions on you..)(again this apllies to both sides of the issue)

That isn't an answer, it's a bs excuse.

 

[lightgigantic]

If in your mind the decision is made to believe in something there is no proof of then it is delusional thinking. If the delusion is expanded to include a religion that eventually instigates hate between others with the same delusion then that hate is a product of delusional thinking.

Is the actual thought to hate, a delusion? Hate between theistic groups requires a shared delusion before it can take shape. Unfortunately the delusion is not recognized as such by the participants. Therefore a member of the hating factions is probably not delusional about their directed hate. I say probably because it is debatable whether or not the hate that has festered in the deluded mind is considered delusional by default.

actually even a brief investigation of conflict in and between theistic groups shows it has nothing to to with god and everything to do with wealth, land, politics and all the standard catalysts of hatred that direct all conflicts, aside from anything particularly religious.

IOW whatever "necessity" you are alluding to that requires one religion to descend into issues of hatred is certainly also present in any other sort of social medium you care to stick your nose at.

 

[NMSquirrel]

actually even a brief investigation of conflict in and between theistic groups shows it has nothing to to with god and everything to do with wealth, land, politics and all the standard catalysts of hatred that direct all conflicts, aside from anything particularly religious.

IOW whatever "necessity" you are alluding to that requires one religion to descend into issues of hatred is certainly also present in any other sort of social medium you care to stick your nose at.

thats my point..(i think) ppl are gonna be beligerant/hate filled disrespectfull and any other negative trait associated with humans whether they believe in god or not..the ppl who are that way and get into religion to justify their hate are the ones destroying belief in god from withing their religion.

would god be as unpopular if there wasnt any attrocities commited in his name?

 

[Doreen]

If in your mind the decision is made to believe in something there is no proof of then it is delusional thinking. If the delusion is expanded to include a religion that eventually instigates hate between others with the same delusion then that hate is a product of delusional thinking.

Let me try two experiments with this:

1) If in your mind a decision is made to believe in something there is no proof of then it is delusional thinking. If the delusion includes judgments of other groups and leads to hatred of these groups, then the hatred is a product of delusional thinking.

Religious versions of this pattern are a subset of the whole.

2) Let's see what the implicit rule is in your quote above...

a) never believe anything there is no proof of. (this needs to be looked at further since proof is usually made or not, like in geometry. Evidence might be a better word.)

Is the actual thought to hate, a delusion?

I am still not sure what this means. One can hate without thought. Someone starts screaming at me and attacking me I will either feel fear or hate or some combination. I won't need to do any rational analysis or irrational, but thought based analysis, to arrive at these emotional states.

Hate between theistic groups requires a shared delusion before it can take shape. Unfortunately the delusion is not recognized as such by the participants. Therefore a member of the hating factions is probably not delusional about their directed hate. I say probably because it is debatable whether or not the hate that has festered in the deluded mind is considered delusional by default.

I think LG is correct here, that hatred between groups often has other real causes and religion is used as a way to get people to do or think what you want. Secular versions abound, see WOMD and Iraq.