Is Hate Delusional Thinking?

Doreen said:
If you think someone else's actions are 'the universe doing something' I can't see where an angry response makes sense. It's like getting angry at a solar flare.
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Yep! Since when is anger confined to human interactions. People become irate for any number of reasons, lashing out towards inanimate objects, acts of nature, etc. Perhaps even god belief is centered around people's anger about their lot in life, I don't know.

If anger and hate are intertwined then I suspect that hate directed towards anything, discounting other human beings, may be delusional in some respect. Getting mad or even hating anything other than another person seems unnatural, doesn't it? Yet no matter how you cut it, hate is a product of a universe in which everything is fair game.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Yep! Since when is anger confined to human interactions. People become irate for any number of reasons, lashing out towards inanimate objects, acts of nature, etc. Perhaps even god belief is centered around people's anger about their lot in life, I don't know.

If anger and hate are intertwined then I suspect that hate directed towards anything, discounting other human beings, may be delusional in some respect. Getting mad or even hating anything other than another person seems unnatural, doesn't it? Yet no matter how you cut it, hate is a product of a universe in which everything is fair game.
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i was taught by a psychologist that anger does not exist alone..
it needs fear,sadness,guilt,frustration,or loss to proceed it


stands to reason that hate would involve a similar concept..
IE;hate does not exist alone, it needs....

envy?
jealousy?
greed?
covetousness? (is that even a word?..must be, its spelled right..lol)


to proceed it..
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Yep! Since when is anger confined to human interactions. People become irate for any number of reasons, lashing out towards inanimate objects, acts of nature, etc. Perhaps even god belief is centered around people's anger about their lot in life, I don't know.

If anger and hate are intertwined then I suspect that hate directed towards anything, discounting other human beings, may be delusional in some respect. Getting mad or even hating anything other than another person seems unnatural, doesn't it? Yet no matter how you cut it, hate is a product of a universe in which everything is fair game.
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I agree with a lot of what you say, even the last portion. But look at it this way. Someone says they believe in determinism, for example. That every action was already determined long ago in the past and we are simply watching it unfold. If I see them get angry at the behavior of another person, I can conclude that while they think they believe in determinism, they may not really. Or they may have mixed, contradictory beliefs. If one believes to the bone that other people's actions are determined, one doesn't get angry. For example, if I know someone is lashing out at me because their wife just got raped, I don't take it personally. I know the root of the anger. Of course, I am only human and I may take it personally, but to that extent, I do not believe my hypothesis that they are lashing out about a rape and it has nothing to do with me.

People often identify with only a small portion of themselves and it is this small portion they often refer to as the 'I' when they say 'I believe ________. But for we who are not them, this partial identification is misleading, since we must live with the whole person, including the 'parts' that do not hold the belief they claim to hold.

If I am a waitress and a customer leaves me no tip after I went out of my way with him AND I beileve his actions are the same, really, as a hailstorm or the way lichen forms on a rock, I won't get angry. Unless I also go around yelling at lichen for choosing the stones in my backyard wall.

My point is that certain beleifs are very hard to actually belief. We can argue for them. We can even think we believe them, but the way we live often indicates otherwise.
 
I guess what PE needs is a good toothache. That should, sooner or later, do away with any notion of deterministic complacency.
 
Doreen said:
My point is that certain beleifs are very hard to actually belief. We can argue for them. We can even think we believe them, but the way we live often indicates otherwise.
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That is where acceptance comes in. It seems acceptance doesn't require anything more than being convinced. Does convincing require proof? I would think so but the proof doesn't have to be factual evidence, just closely related to it. I can argue that god created everything but I can't prove it, yet all I need to do is offer the universe since it obviously already exists. So there is no evidence for god other than in the physical world, as it is for everything else.

So if I believe I hate someone then I have to be convinced of it and accept it. Some Earthly proof is still required for the delusional. Where would delusional thinking be if there were no physical world?:D What I'm trying to say is that hate requires the same criteria that belief is predicated upon, and that can only be found in the physical world.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
That is where acceptance comes in. It seems acceptance doesn't require anything more than being convinced. Does convincing require proof? I would think so but the proof doesn't have to be factual evidence, just closely related to it. I can argue that god created everything but I can't prove it, yet all I need to do is offer the universe since it obviously already exists. So there is no evidence for god other than in the physical world, as it is for everything else.

So if I believe I hate someone then I have to be convinced of it and accept it. Some Earthly proof is still required for the delusional. Where would delusional thinking be if there were no physical world?:D What I'm trying to say is that hate requires the same criteria that belief is predicated upon, and that can only be found in the physical world.
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Your are missing my point, I think. You do not simply believe you 'hate someone' you also hate them. You are a person who does this on occasion - I am not singling you out, I would also be in that set of humans. That act or state of hating, to me, shows that you do not accept your belief in determinism or that everything we do is the universe doing it.

Your acceptance is limited as is your belief.

I can argue that god created everything but I can't prove it, yet all I need to do is offer the universe since it obviously already exists.
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This argument was used in relation to animals having consciousness by both monotheists and scientists. For a long time both groups denied that animals were experiencers. They could explain the animals without resort to them having consciousness or having subjective experience and what goes with it: emotions, intentions, etc.

And yet they were wrong. At least if one goes by current scientific consensus.

You are also assuming that the experience of theists is the same as yours. That they are making a mental leap of faith from the same ground. Certainly many are. but then others are not.
 
Love and hate are born of the same thing; passion. You couldn't hate something if you didn't care. And really, they can be reflexive, but they can also be controlled with (a lot of) effort.

As for theism, how can you say that it's delusional? That would imply that someone somewhere has all of the answers, which no one really does. I could be wrong about my beliefs, or maybe you could be; no one has that answer no matter how much they profess that they do. All they really have is a belief that satisfies them.

:worship: :)

See? Both of these smilies are happy; one worships, the other does not.
 
I think if you were to observe some of our fellow atheists you would notice that A LOT of them have the same characteristics as these Christians, that atheist seem to despise or detest.

Just seems that religion tends to bring out those characteristics a little more in certain situations.

Both parties can be so hypocritical, defensive, and closed minded.

How many times have you seen an atheist not let a Christian finish their thought before they begin to ridicule them. It goes both ways.
 
NevaChu said:
I think if you were to observe some of our fellow atheists you would notice that A LOT of them have the same characteristics as these Christians, that atheist seem to despise or detest.
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thats what i've been saying..
Just seems that religion tends to bring out those characteristics a little more in certain situations.
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i blame the christians who say you have to be perfect,then act like they are perfect..duh..your human, imperfection is a given..
Both parties can be so hypocritical, defensive, and closed minded.
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no i'm not..:p
How many times have you seen an atheist not let a Christian finish their thought before they begin to ridicule them. It goes both ways.
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Proverbs 11:12
Whoever derides their neighbor has no sense, but the one who has understanding holds their tongue.

Proverbs 14:29
Whoever is patient has great understanding, but one who is quick-tempered displays folly.

proverbs is the coolest book in the bible..
 
NMSquirrel said:
i blame the christians who say you have to be perfect,then act like they are perfect
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It's more than just Christians. There are judgemental people :soapbox: in all faiths and in atheism. I'm not a Christian, and as much as I'm p'd at all of the violence done in the name of god, they're not all like that. :shrug:
 
CrystalineGoddess said:
It's more than just Christians. There are judgemental people :soapbox: in all faiths and in atheism. I'm not a Christian, and as much as I'm p'd at all of the violence done in the name of god, they're not all like that. :shrug:
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true..but my thing is the ones who are christians cause ppl tend to associate that with what being a christian is (seekers think they have to be perfect to join the club..).and a christian is NOT perfect..
the others bug too but not as much as misrepresenting christians..
(i consider my self a christian..but im also the most realistic one you will meet.:D.)
 
CrystalineGoddess said:
I would add any of the groups that go door to door to your list.
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the jehovah's witnesses, yes. i've always been offended by the door to door jesus salesmen. i've always considered them intrusive and condescending. i admit to having been rude to them in the past. but i'm recently married to a man who is kinder and more tolerant than i am, and so when they came for a visit, i let him answer the door. he of course was nice to them, and they are really nice, and that's made me feel convicted. so now i'm nice to them too.

:eek:

i realized it wasn't right to judge these people, or to be so easily offended or unkind. they may have a brand of witnessing that i don't understand, but my own brand involves attempting to be non-judgemental and loving to everyone.
 
If any get past my 'no soliciting' sign I generally just tell them I am happy with my belief system and then hope they leave. Sometimes I send the hubby too though.
 
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