Is God willing but not able?

ashura said:
The standard response would seem to be: without evil, how would you know what good is?
Click to expand...
maybe you wouldnt know,so what?
without evil everyone would be good and happy whats wrong with that?

wouldnt loving father want his children to be always happy?

all human parents that love their kids would want the best for them,
so why wouldnt God?
 
ashura said:
My personal opinion is that it's good because God does it and not the other way around. For example, take the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah, or the flood. Those are cases of murder, but since God did it, it's not evil. It's considered justified. So I can only conclude that whatever God says is good is good.
Click to expand...
I'd argue the opposite. The God you're positing a irrational. His actions are arbitrary and capricious.

In my opinion, the creator of the universe, with all its beauty and magnificent structure, would not behave like a spoiled child or a tired parent proclaiming his actions are right "because I said so!"

A universe ruled by the God you suggest would be chaotic and random. Science could play no role in such a place. I believe in a God who makes the rules, then plays by them.
 
madanthonywayne said:
I'd argue the opposite. The God you're positing a irrational. His actions are arbitrary and capricious.

In my opinion, the creator of the universe, with all its beauty and magnificent structure, would not behave like a spoiled child or a tired parent proclaiming his actions are right "because I said so!"

A universe ruled by the God you suggest would be chaotic and random. Science could play no role in such a place. I believe in a God who makes the rules, then plays by them.
Click to expand...

Well, like I said earlier in the thread, I'm referring specifically to the Abrahamic god. What you're referring to is something completely different and not something I have a comment on. :)
 
scorpius said:
maybe you wouldnt know,so what?
without evil everyone would be good and happy whats wrong with that?

wouldnt loving father want his children to be always happy?

all human parents that love their kids would want the best for them,
so why wouldnt God?
Click to expand...

Well again, this is me assuming the viewpoint of an Abrahamic theist. This is what I think would be the response:

If good is everything God tells us to do, then evil is doing something that God told us not to do. It's a form of disobeying. If you were to take away that ability to disobey, you take away free will. And so a theist can ask you "What's better? A parent that never lets his/her child out of the house to protect him/her from evil, or a parent that exposes his/her child to evil outside?"

But then of course my atheist brain would pop in and ask well he's going to take the free will away anyway, what was the point of it all? But that's a different topic. :shrug:
 
A lot of people dont understand the qestion of suffering and God's relation to it. Its very simple: suffering is required to evolve. If eveyrthing was ok and there was no suffering, there would be no evolution whatsoever. It is a vital part of evolution.
 
evolution is not a vital part of life. it would be better if god had created nothing, then nobody would have to suffer or evolve.
 
You need to have some kind of struggle for evolution. If everything was the same and nobody had to look for food and everything was presented ona silver platter, there would be no need for evolution. So suffering is just a part of life.
 
Yorda said:
for everyone and everything.

problem: life causes suffering.
solution: kill all life and everything becomes perfect.
Click to expand...

I don't consider that a problem though, so it wouldn't be better for me.
 
ashura said:
I don't consider that a problem though, so it wouldn't be better for me.
Click to expand...

you think it's not a problem... currently. but in your next life it will be a problem.

and even if there was no problems, nothing can be better than nothing, so it was stupid for god to create anything... if he had a choice (which he obviously didnt)
 
How can something that doesn't exist create anything?

I only used the above to come on here and get free publicity for my Unicorn Dung, It wonderful for roses. You won't be able to see it, smell it or feel it but don't let that deter you. I send full instruction with every pack.

Slightly cheaper, but also very good is bullshit. The price varies. I think the Jehovah's Witnesses offer the best value for money.
 
Arsalan said:
A lot of people dont understand the qestion of suffering and God's relation to it. Its very simple: suffering is required to evolve. If eveyrthing was ok and there was no suffering, there would be no evolution whatsoever. It is a vital part of evolution.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: You call it "suffering," I call it "adaptation." There's a difference.

If there were a god or some kind of creator-being, hopefully it would have been omniscient enough to create us without our having to suffer. Otherwise, our creator is neither willing nor capable to do his job of creating us.

The last time I heard someone give me the "suffering" spiel was a bi-polar schizophrenic who was locked in a rubber room. He told me that it was god's will to create us to suffer in this life. I said to him, "Yeah, right," and then I injected him with a syringe of thorazine, and he wasn't suffering anymore.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: You call it "suffering," I call it "adaptation." There's a difference.

If there were a god or some kind of creator-being, hopefully it would have been omniscient enough to create us without our having to suffer. Otherwise, our creator is neither willing nor capable to do his job of creating us.
Click to expand...
the issue is that we are not created with omnipotence, etc

IOW we are not created as god .... and there are very good reasons for that

;)
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: You call it "suffering," I call it "adaptation." There's a difference.
Click to expand...

Through suffering or or experiencing pain we adapt. What happens if theres constant floods? We build dikes. What happens if we keep getting stung by insects? We make protective clothing. We adapt because we suffer from certain things and that allows us to move on.

If there were a god or some kind of creator-being, hopefully it would have been omniscient enough to create us without our having to suffer. Otherwise, our creator is neither willing nor capable to do his job of creating us.
Click to expand...

The creation is there. Its just to evolve.

The last time I heard someone give me the "suffering" spiel was a bi-polar schizophrenic who was locked in a rubber room. He told me that it was god's will to create us to suffer in this life. I said to him, "Yeah, right," and then I injected him with a syringe of thorazine, and he wasn't suffering anymore.
Click to expand...

Im not saying thats what life is all about. Im saying that sometimes in life we suffer and when people suffer they make sure it doesnt happen again. Would there have been any progress if there wasnt any danger in using the old methods of travel and medicine for example? No, there wouldnt have been. Just like evolution on a biological scale needs to lead to some kind of improvement on the previous workings, the suffering in the world helps us to move on and to a better world.

It is needed otherwise we would never make any progress.
 
Yorda said:
you think it's not a problem... currently. but in your next life it will be a problem.

and even if there was no problems, nothing can be better than nothing, so it was stupid for god to create anything... if he had a choice (which he obviously didnt)
Click to expand...

How do you know "he", if he exists OBVIOUSLY hadn'y a choice. Pleas give us an argument, not a statement to bolster an opinion whichothers may not share.
 
Arsalan said:
Through suffering or or experiencing pain we adapt. What happens if theres constant floods? We build dikes. What happens if we keep getting stung by insects? We make protective clothing. We adapt because we suffer from certain things and that allows us to move on.



The creation is there. Its just to evolve.



Im not saying thats what life is all about. Im saying that sometimes in life we suffer and when people suffer they make sure it doesnt happen again. Would there have been any progress if there wasnt any danger in using the old methods of travel and medicine for example? No, there wouldnt have been. Just like evolution on a biological scale needs to lead to some kind of improvement on the previous workings, the suffering in the world helps us to move on and to a better world.

It is needed otherwise we would never make any progress.
Click to expand...

So tell us how a person who is horribly deformed learn and move on ? My daughter suffered from a ghastly disease( MND) from age 23 to 33 when she moved on...to a hole in the ground. The only love she experienced was that of the dedicated medical staff who looked after her during her last four years
when she was almost totally paralyzed.

I'm not playing a sympathy card, just making a point about the way life is. In the care home where my daughter spent her last two years I saw some horrific sights which haunt me to this day.

Looking at the state of the world, if I believed in a creator, it would be a malevolent, sadistic one who got a perverse kick out of watching us suffer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top