Is God willing but not able?

Medicine*Woman said:
M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume
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Is "evil" always evil? What we might think is "evil" just might be "good" for the greater majority of people.

A good example, I think, is World War II ...war is evil, as most people would agree, and yet that very evil thing stopped a much greater evil from happening. So ...is war always evil? Or is the end result worth the momentary evil ...and so is ultimately good?

So .....is "evil" really always evil? Or do we have to wait for a few centuries to know? And how do we know when to stop wondering?

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Is "evil" always evil? What we might think is "evil" just might be "good" for the greater majority of people.

A good example, I think, is World War II ...war is evil, as most people would agree, and yet that very evil thing stopped a much greater evil from happening. So ...is war always evil? Or is the end result worth the momentary evil ...and so is ultimately good?

So ...is "evil" really always evil? Or do we have to wait for a few centuries to know? And how do we know when to stop wondering?
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M*W: I think "evilness" is relative from different perspectives. Your example of "war is evil" is timely and appropriate, but isn't that the purpose of war--putting a stop to or anihilating the greater evil? I would think so.

The outcomes of war may not be immediately recognized. In other words, we could "win the battle, but lose the war." There has to be a good reason for a war, because if war is started on a whim out of personal selfishness or gratification (as when Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait), that is never right and always evil IMO. To enter WWII, after we were attacked was necessary if not obligatory.

In the case of Kuwait, it did take years to curtail the whim of a mad man, and although we know this mad man has been stopped, we may not know for years to come how our efforts in Iraq play out. As humans, we'd rather know right now what the future would be like, but we're not fortune tellers. I don't believe anyone of us likes war, but sometimes it's a necessity to prepare for a better future.

So, to answer your question, "is evil always evil?," I would like to counter balance it with, "is good always good?" The answer to both is No. There is never going to be a black-or-white answer to this. Evil can turn into good, and good can turn into evil given the effective parameters and paradigms.
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M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:

"Religion has done more to bust-up humanity than anything." ~ Whoopi Goldberg
 
ashura said:
So are you advocating the sacrifice of our freedom of choice?
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Oh no, it's just that when people question why is there evil in the world, xtians always trot out the freedom of choice line.

I would be happy with choosing between good acts, and not quite so good acts. That's still freedom of choice, we don't need to be able to choose to do evil.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
So, to answer your question, "is evil always evil?," I would like to counter balance it with, "is good always good?" The answer to both is No. There is never going to be a black-or-white answer to this. Evil can turn into good, and good can turn into evil given the effective parameters and paradigms.
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Yeah, see what God has to put up with every day? ...while He's sipping on his mint julep and looking down at us fucking up the entire Earth? How would you like to have His job? And how would you like to see M*W constantly criticizing everything? :D

Medicine*Woman said:
"Religion has done more to bust-up humanity than anything." ~ Whoopi Goldberg
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Religion didn't do any of those things, people did. And that's what you and others fail to realize or take into account. Muslims terrorists blow up people every day in the name of the Muslim religion, but the religion hasn't done one single thing harmful to anyone ....only humans do harm.

Baron Max
 
phlogistician said:
I would be happy with choosing between good acts, and not quite so good acts. That's still freedom of choice, we don't need to be able to choose to do evil.
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But obviously others aren't so satisfied as you seem to be. What you might want is not what others obviously want. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't choose?

Baron Max
 
John99 said:
I think it is just a way to abscond from respnsibility.
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Oh, sure ...of course you'd say that. But think of it this way, ....how many people has communism killed in the world? Do you blame it on communism, and some little book that someone wrote? Or do you blame it on the people who did the killing?

Baron Max
 
Well, i mean the Atheist viewpoint of religion and war. I cannot run away fast enough to get away from human nature...um, one cannot run away fast enough to get away...er, you cannot run away...you can run but you will never get away from.........sonofabitch:mad:
 
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Baron Max said:
And how would you like to see M*W constantly criticizing everything? :D
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M*W: I should have known that any reply I sent you would be belittled. What criticizing did I have in my post?

Religion didn't do any of those things, people did. And that's what you and others fail to realize or take into account.
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M*W: Exactly what do I fail to realize IYO? I certainly know the difference between religion:people. Make sure you know what you're talking about, before you make an ass out of yourself.

Muslims terrorists blow up people every day in the name of the Muslim religion, but the religion hasn't done one single thing harmful to anyone .... only humans do harm.
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M*W: What exactly is your problem? You sound as if you have pre-recorded messages in your brain for picking and choosing, but none of them are within the realms of reality. You're just a talking head with nothing to say.
 
John99 said:
Well, i mean the Atheist viewpoint of religion and war. I cannot run away fast enough to get away from human nature...um, one cannot run away fast enough to get away...er, you cannot run away...you can run but you will never get away from.........sonofabitch:mad:
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M*W: Please explain what you mean exactly by "the Atheist viewpoint of religion and war."
 
There are too many variables. My impression is that very religious people would be less likely to go to war. Do you agree with that?
 
Of course a benchmark can be the crusades. but i have read that was because others were on the march-so to speak.
 
God can prevent evil, but permits it. This does not mean God is malevolent. Evil is part of God's creation. But, creation is not God. We come to know God through love, but God does not force us to love him. How can we come to love God without knowing evil? Our choice requires knowledge of evil.
 
phlogistician said:
Oh no, it's just that when people question why is there evil in the world, xtians always trot out the freedom of choice line.

I would be happy with choosing between good acts, and not quite so good acts. That's still freedom of choice, we don't need to be able to choose to do evil.
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Good point.

I wonder whence the insistence of some people (especially Christians) on presenting the choices either as "good" or as "evil"; as opposed to presenting them as "good" and as "less good".
 
Baron Max said:
But obviously others aren't so satisfied as you seem to be. What you might want is not what others obviously want. Who are you to tell them what they can and can't choose?

Baron Max
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I didn't direct what others could or couldn't choose. I merely stated what I was happy choosing from, and that evil was not necessary.

Quite stuffing straw men Max, it's tiresome.
 
evil exists only in the human mind (because adam and eve ate the fruit), so if god would prevent evil, we would have no free will.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W
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According to the bible, God recognized that man's rebelilon that started in the Garden of Eden would cause him to be imperfect and prone to selfish rather than the righteous course. The bible describes our every inclination as bad.

As we can see from the bible,s account God did not attempt to stop every act of violence and injustice that occured on the Earth. Why? As a whole man has chosen to side with God's enemy, Satan who caused that rebellion in the first place. No wonder then that the "whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." Thus this is Satan's world. The governements and prevailing attitudes are all counter to God's purpose.

In the past God interfered only when his nation of people were threatened. Now that Israel abandon it's covenant there is no litteral nation on Earth doing God's will.

How does this help us to understand why God allows violence in the world?

God has given us an individual voice to side with him and he has also alloted a time to end all suffering and wickedness on the Earth. But for right now is our time to choose his side or the rest of the world. That is how important choice is to God.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W
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I think that if you are religious, you should not try to understand God. I'd assume in most religions he would be working on an agenda that we could not understand, contemplate or know
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W
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No you lack understanding...

God doesn't do anything, God is unchanging, ever-existing, the source of the highest enjoyment, all the innumerable universes spring from him....

The reason good things aren't happening is because it isn't in your karma, which is why you exist in this universe/reality

Had it been in your karma, you would exist in a heavenly world where only good things happen...but it isn't

Therefore it is YOUR fault good things dont' happen, YOU'RE to blame
 
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