Is God willing but not able?

[Medicine*Woman]

No you lack understanding...

God doesn't do anything, God is unchanging, ever-existing, the source of the highest enjoyment, all the innumerable universes spring from him....

The reason good things aren't happening is because it isn't in your karma, which is why you exist in this universe/reality

Had it been in your karma, you would exist in a heavenly world where only good things happen...but it isn't

*************
M*W: Again, you are playing the fortune teller (which, I understand, is totally against what you have been told to believe by christianity).

Therefore it is YOUR fault good things dont' happen, YOU'RE to blame

*************
M*W: When did I ever say "good things weren't happening to me?" Why do you assume what my karma is? You don't the hell know what my karma is, so STFU!

I am comfortable with what I believe (or disbelieve), and it has no impact on my life whatsoever. I experience emotion just like you... joy, pain, love, tenderness, caring, enrichment, comfort, contact, success, and to be nurtured as well as nurturing. There is no way that you could possibly know what I experience emotionally. Therefore, you ASS-U-ME what I am feeling, thinking, and experiencing, which is not based on my reality, because it is not my reality. It's people like you who convinced me that christianity is evil. After 20 some years, you people are still proving to me everyday that christianity destroys our innermost being. So, why should I expect anything better than that from you?

I think it safe to say that it is you who "lacks understanding."

*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote Needed Again in the Afternoon:

"Dear Lord, the gods have been good to me, and I am thankful. For the first time in my life everything is absolutely perfect just the way it is, and I won't ask for anything more. If that is okay, please give me absolutely no sign. Okay, deal. In gratitude, I present you this offering of milk and cookies. If you want me to eat them for you, give me no sign. That will be done (gulp, gulp, munch, munch, munch)." ~ Homer Simpson

 

[Yorda]

Therefore it is YOUR fault good things dont' happen, YOU'RE to blame

nothing is my fault because i didn't choose to exist.

 

[VitalOne]

*************
M*W: Again, you are playing the fortune teller (which, I understand, is totally against what you have been told to believe by christianity).

Actually, Jesus agrees...

*************
M*W: When did I ever say "good things weren't happening to me?" Why do you assume what my karma is? You don't the hell know what my karma is, so STFU!

I am comfortable with what I believe (or disbelieve), and it has no impact on my life whatsoever. I experience emotion just like you... joy, pain, love, tenderness, caring, enrichment, comfort, contact, success, and to be nurtured as well as nurturing. There is no way that you could possibly know what I experience emotionally. Therefore, you ASS-U-ME what I am feeling, thinking, and experiencing, which is not based on my reality, because it is not my reality. It's people like you who convinced me that christianity is evil. After 20 some years, you people are still proving to me everyday that christianity destroys our innermost being. So, why should I expect anything better than that from you?

I think it safe to say that it is you who "lacks understanding."

*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote Needed Again in the Afternoon:

"Dear Lord, the gods have been good to me, and I am thankful. For the first time in my life everything is absolutely perfect just the way it is, and I won't ask for anything more. If that is okay, please give me absolutely no sign. Okay, deal. In gratitude, I present you this offering of milk and cookies. If you want me to eat them for you, give me no sign. That will be done (gulp, gulp, munch, munch, munch)." ~ Homer Simpson

I'm not assuming anything, except that good things do not ONLY happen to you, this is obvious

I am also only assuming karma, the thought-energy superimposed onto you is in play, this is an undeniable fact

 

[VitalOne]

nothing is my fault because i didn't choose to exist.

Yeah you did....that's why you're here...

 

[lightgigantic]

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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W

already dealt with this in a previous thread - which didn't get such a rousing response

- in short, hume works under the misconception that this is the best of all possible worlds and the issue of evil is not being dealt with efficiently

 

[Yorda]

Yeah you did....that's why you're here...

a being cannot choose to exist because in order to choose you have to exist.

that's why nothing is god's fault either, because he didn't choose to exist.

without existence there is no choice.

 

[VitalOne]

a being cannot choose to exist because in order to choose you have to exist.

that's why nothing is god's fault either, because he didn't choose to exist.

without existence there is no choice.

No, you chose to exist this way and form, otherwise you wouldn't exist in this way and form

 

[Yorda]

No, you chose to exist this way and form, otherwise you wouldn't exist in this way and form

i didn't have a choice but to choose...

 

[Myles]

Then I would say that god allows evil to exist because in us he bestowed the freedom of choice and evil is not a construct of god directly, but a creation of the beings he created?

So which sinful humans are responsible for tsunamis. earthquakes and other natural disasters ?

If as many claim. god is omniscient, then he foresaw the way his creation would turn out but still allowed these awful things to happen. This makes him/her/it a sadistic bastard whose pastime is pulling the wings off celestial flies. If you want to adore such a being go right ahead.

 

[Myles]

Meanwhile, on 'is god willing bit not able, or able, but not willing', .. well it doesn't matter because god doesn't come across as being a nice guy from either outcome.

This of course is excused with 'god works in mysterious ways', if you call tsunamis and famines 'mysterious', that is.

Sorry, but I didn't read your post befor I entered mine. We are saying essentially the same thing.

It may be that some contributors to this thread are unaware of Leibnitz's argument that god created the best of all possible worlds, an argument I have been exposed to. The antidote is to read Voltaire's Candide. Bible thumpers won't read it because it is not a " holy book ".

Why are these theists so frightened of reason. Is it that they can't or wont use reason, preferring the soft option of accepting what is printed in a book of dubious origin. There are so many sects and cults, each reading the same book but arriving at different conclusions that a putative god would die laughing at them.

 

[Myles]

a being cannot choose to exist because in order to choose you have to exist.

that's why nothing is god's fault either, because he didn't choose to exist.

without existence there is no choice.

If god didn't choose to exist who or what brought him into existence ?

 

[Myles]

God can prevent evil, but permits it. This does not mean God is malevolent. Evil is part of God's creation. But, creation is not God. We come to know God through love, but God does not force us to love him. How can we come to love God without knowing evil? Our choice requires knowledge of evil.

I cannot remember when I last read such nonsense/ You simply must try harder. What is the point you are trying to make.?

 

[Myles]

Then I would say that god allows evil to exist because in us he bestowed the freedom of choice and evil is not a construct of god directly, but a creation of the beings he created?

So he created beings who could choose evil. What next, sit back and enjoy the spectacle ?

 

[Myles]

already dealt with this in a previous thread - which didn't get such a rousing response

- in short, hume works under the misconception that this is the best of all possible worlds and the issue of evil is not being dealt with efficiently

Can you direct me to where Hume says this is the best of all possible worlds ?
Failing that, can you explain why you believe that he assumes this is the best of all possible worlds ?

 

[Myles]

No you lack understanding...

God doesn't do anything, God is unchanging, ever-existing, the source of the highest enjoyment, all the innumerable universes spring from him....

The reason good things aren't happening is because it isn't in your karma, which is why you exist in this universe/reality

Had it been in your karma, you would exist in a heavenly world where only good things happen...but it isn't

Therefore it is YOUR fault good things dont' happen, YOU'RE to blame

I envy you your knowledge. How did you come to know all these things ?

 

[Myles]

Actually, Jesus agrees...




I am also only assuming karma, the thought-energy superimposed onto you is in play, this is an undeniable fact

I deny it. Now prove me wrong.

Do they run courses in critical thinking in your area? I will gladly contribute to your costs if you agree to take one

 

[madanthonywayne]

In this context, good would be whatever God says is good. We do have to look at this through a theist's eyes, no?

That's one interpretation. Not the only one. I remember studying that question in philosophy. Does God do something because it's good, or is it good because God does it?

 

[ashura]

That's one interpretation. Not the only one. I remember studying that question in philosophy. Does God do something because it's good, or is it good because God does it?

Heh, you're right. It wasn't something we could give a final answer to in my philosophy class either. The next point in discussion was regarding God's instruction to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. I'm sure you know where that leads to.

My personal opinion is that it's good because God does it and not the other way around. For example, take the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah, or the flood. Those are cases of murder, but since God did it, it's not evil. It's considered justified. So I can only conclude that whatever God says is good is good.

 

[Myles]

Heh, you're right. It wasn't something we could give a final answer to in my philosophy class either. The next point in discussion was regarding God's instruction to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. I'm sure you know where that leads to.

My personal opinion is that it's good because God does it and not the other way around. For example, take the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah, or the flood. Those are cases of murder, but since God did it, it's not evil. It's considered justified. So I can only conclude that whatever God says is good is good.

Before you got round to discussing good and evil in your philosophy class did you discuss the more fundamental question of whethr god exists ,or was his existence taken for granted ? If you conclude that he exists, then you don't need to waste your time on the above topic. Assuming you are in a Christian environment you will have been told that god is good and that he can do no wrong. And that makes the question you were struggling with redundant,

If, on the other hand, you conclude that he doesn't exist, the question is also redundant.

 

[ashura]

Before you got round to discussing good and evil in your philosophy class did you discuss the more fundamental question of whethr god exists ,or was his existence taken for granted ? If you conclude that he exists, then you don't need to waste your time on the above topic. Assuming you are in a Christian environment you will have been told that god is good and that he can do no wrong. And that makes the question you were struggling with redundant,

If, on the other hand, you conclude that he doesn't exist, the question is also redundant.

The question is still worth struggling with because I feel it gives a better insight into the nature of certain theists.

And no, we didn't get around to discussing God's existence. I'm sure you can understand why.