Is God an unscientific theory?

John J. Bannan said:
Exactly my point. How do you know what nothingness is?
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So you're going to redefine "nothing"?:shrug:

Perhaps science will discover that nothingness and somethingness are the same thing.
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Hardly likely since nothing is nothing and something is not nothing, it's something.

Poof, there goes God.
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And since science would have shown (according to you) that something came out of nothing there'd be someone at the back screaming "I told you god did it!".

Accordingly, I at least can point to a possible explanation for the existence of the universe that does not include God, which science could perhaps prove - which in turn would prove that God doesn't exist. Now, I am not saying God doesn't exist - only that I could theorize such.
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No you can't since where did the something come from?
 
That is not obvious at all, the universe could be cyclical. Nothing is not something, that is axiomatic. You can't use a non-sensical logical construction to show falsifiability.
 
John J. Bannan said:
As I already explained, the logic is not that nothingness caused somethingness - it's that they're the same thing. No need to even tackle the causation problem. Of course, I completely understand your objection to this theory. Nevertheless, it seems rather obvious to me that if there is no God, then the universe sprang from nothingness. Nothing cannot cause something, unless they are the same thing. The problem for science is to explain how they can be the same thing.
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Nothing = NO THING meaning NOT SOMETHING

Its not a problem of science, its YOUR problem to explain why they would be the same thing :bugeye:

And if we for a second pretend you are right, what actually would be the purpose of God ? Since something was there all along God didnt really have to creating anything...
 
I already agreed that there would be no God, if nothing were something. The evidence for this theory is that something obviously exists - and yet nothingness (assuming there is no God) is the most likely culprit. But if nothingness exists, how could there be anything? The answer is that nothingness and somethingness are the same thing. It's up to science to explain how that is possible. My best guess is that nothingness is itself something, and that aspect of nothingness creates everything else. Of course, this is more a philosophical argument than one based on observation. Nevertheless, if there is no God, my money's on nothingness to have created it all. How is this possible? Well, it happened didn't it? There must be an explanation.
 
The answer is that nothingness and somethingness are the same thing.
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Your rather bizarre attempt at undermining the very meaning of words aside, why could the universe not be that 'something' that has always existed?
 
The universe would indeed be the "something" that always existed. It would also be the "nothingness" that always existed. The two are the same thing.

Oli. Obviously, if God doesn't exist, then something sprang from nothing - did it not? Where else could something have come from? And even if there were a something else from which our universe sprang, where did that something else come from? You are left with nothingness as the origin of the universe. This is not a delusional argument, but a very sound argument. If something didn't spring from nothing, then where did it come from smart guy?
 
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Its not a delusional argument, its an argument from ignorance. You're saying that since you don't know how the universe came to be, it must have been a god. And not just any god, but your God. This argument from ignorance gives rise to the delusion that humans call religion.

Not knowing how the universe came to be doesn't imply that there must be a god. QED.
 
John J. Bannan said:
Oli. Obviously, if God doesn't exist, then something sprang from nothing - did it not?
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No, not obvious.
The first cause does not have to be god.

If something didn't spring from nothing, then where did it come from smart guy?
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One theory is that as a black hole forms it "disappears" the mass it takes in and forms another space-time continuum.
Maybe we were spawned from a black hole in another universe?

Science is still looking - are you one of those people that want ALL the answers NOW?
(Okay, I'm with you on that :D ).
 
Even if a black hole disappears and forms another space-time continuum, that does not explain what caused the space time continuum that caused the black hole. You clearly have no answer to the ultimate question - and I don't chide you or science for not knowing this answer. And, I am not talking about the first cause being God. In fact, I am proposing that there wasn't a first cause, but that matter has always existed because nothingness has always existed - as the two are the same thing.
 
John J. Bannan said:
Oli. Obviously, if God doesn't exist, then something sprang from nothing - did it not? Where else could something have come from? And even if there were a something else from which our universe sprang, where did that something else come from? You are left with nothingness as the origin of the universe. This is not a delusional argument, but a very sound argument. If something didn't spring from nothing, then where did it come from smart guy?
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No. The word God in a scientific sense doesn't mean anything.
 
You're the one that started a thread on the topic. One might say the fixation is yours.
 
:eek:
John J. Bannan said:
I already agreed that there would be no God, if nothing were something. The evidence for this theory is that something obviously exists - and yet nothingness (assuming there is no God) is the most likely culprit.
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How is 'assuming there is no God' the same thing as 'nothingness' ? That makes no sense, please explain.

John J. Bannan said:
But if nothingness exists, how could there be anything? The answer is that nothingness and somethingness are the same thing. It's up to science to explain how that is possible.
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No no no.. Ill repeat:
Nothing = NO THING meaning NOT SOMETHING
Its not a problem of science, its YOUR problem to explain why they would be the same thing.

John J. Bannan said:
My best guess is that nothingness is itself something, and that aspect of nothingness creates everything else.
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Aspect of nothingness ??? Nothingness has no aspects, no properties.. its nothing !

John J. Bannan said:
Of course, this is more a philosophical argument than one based on observation. Nevertheless, if there is no God, my money's on nothingness to have created it all. How is this possible? Well, it happened didn't it? There must be an explanation.
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Maybe something has always been. The oscillatory universe ?

John J. Bannan said:
Why are you so fixated on God? I just made an argument that had nothing to do with God. What about that argument?
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While nothing is something in your book should we read that as "I just made an argument that had something to do with God." ? :rolleyes:

John J. Bannan said:
The universe would indeed be the "something" that always existed. It would also be the "nothingness" that always existed. The two are the same thing.
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Good luck proving that something equals nothing. :rolleyes:

John J. Bannan said:
Oli. Obviously, if God doesn't exist, then something sprang from nothing - did it not? Where else could something have come from? And even if there were a something else from which our universe sprang, where did that something else come from? You are left with nothingness as the origin of the universe. This is not a delusional argument, but a very sound argument. If something didn't spring from nothing, then where did it come from smart guy?
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Uhm where, according to you, did God come from again ?
And read ! Several people have suggested that maybe something always was.
 
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John J. Bannan said:
Even if a black hole disappears and forms another space-time continuum, that does not explain what caused the space time continuum that caused the black hole. You clearly have no answer to the ultimate question - and I don't chide you or science for not knowing this answer. And, I am not talking about the first cause being God. In fact, I am proposing that there wasn't a first cause, but that matter has always existed because nothingness has always existed - as the two are the same thing.
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So what use is nothingness in your theory ? You might as well say something always existed.

S.A.M. said:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html;)
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LOL
Ok, so we are talking about a virtual God ? :p
 
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