is God an alien?

[heart]

this is knowledge of why you're doing what you're doing, and the consequences of it, and the freedom to choose.

Freedom to choose what exactly?

this is about love, and love can not be chosen with ignorance, or appreciated.

How is torturing people for eternity love? Ignorance? People are being tormented because they are ignorant? The Biblical God has some serious freaking issues man!

and if you decide, in your knowledge, that you don't want that love, and you don't want that communion, then that's exactly what you get.

So in other words, if people decide they don’t want to commune with God and love him (whatever that means) then they won’t get it. But you left out the part that its just not about not being able to rap with God…he will also send people to a place that he created for demons and its there that he designed for those souls to be tormented in every fashion. See, it’s just not about "you are not able to join our club", like the country club. It's also about him make sure you suffer for eternity too. This from a loving *cough* God? Yeah, right. I’ve got some swamp land to sell you too.

now seriously, how can anyone have a problem with getting what they want and what they choose?

Okay. Let’s say that Lucifer holds a gun to your head and tells you that you can praise him and live happily in the hereafter or you can have free will and experience the most excruciating pain you’ve ever experienced for 100 years. Then after 100 years another…and another aka eternity. It’s free will. You have a choice and if you decide not to worship Satan then your eternal suffering will be your own choice. How can you argue with that? See, you want to roll your eyes too, huh?

 

[Dywyddyr]

you're suggesting trading lives for fake memories. trading experience, which is the only way to true knowledge, for...what exactly?

Really?
A memory is "real"?
Please define "true knowledge".

the way i see it, the only way knowledge is "implanted", is into our genes, by living.

Right...
Anything to support this?

Is a false memory any "less real" to someone who has one than a "real" memory?

 

[Lori_7]

Really?
A memory is "real"?
Please define "true knowledge".

experience.

Right...
Anything to support this?

evolution.

and a real memory is more meaningful than a false one because you lived through it. it's the meaning inherent in life.

 

[Light Travelling]

Right...
Anything to support this?

I think you could allow her learnt genetic memory. Isn't that what governs migrating birds, fish etc

How natural selection guides some animals to instinctively behave a certain way. beahviour that is learnt according to their environment over many generations.

 

[Dywyddyr]

experience.

Nonsense.
If that were true then all you'd need is the experience itself and not require memory.

and a real memory is more meaningful than a false one because you lived through it. it's the meaning inherent in life.

That's a supposition on your part.

evolution.

Wrong.
See below.

I think you could allow her learnt genetic memory. Isn't that what governs migrating birds, fish etc

How natural selection guides some animals to instinctively behave a certain way. beahviour that is learnt according to their environment over many generations.

Which is useless for Lori's argument. If "knowledge is implanted in our genes by living" over generations how does that help any particular individual achieve... whatever it is we're supposed to achieve? That would mean that earlier in time individuals have no chance to achieve it and later ones would be entirely dependent on their ancestors.

 

[Lori_7]

Nonsense.
If that were true then all you'd need is the experience itself and not require memory.

memory is required to remember, but not to know.

That's a supposition on your part.

it's a good one.

Which is useless for Lori's argument. If "knowledge is implanted in our genes by living" over generations how does that help any particular individual achieve... whatever it is we're supposed to achieve? That would mean that earlier in time individuals have no chance to achieve it and later ones would be entirely dependent on their ancestors.

that's life.

 

[Dywyddyr]

memory is required to remember, but not to know.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the memory is real, since after the fact there's no way of establishing for certain that the experience was genuine.

it's a good one.

If by "good one" you mean you mean "you can't substantiate it" then I'll agree.

that's life.

So in other words generations past and possibly generations to come were already doomed to fail at whatever god wants us to achieve.
Nice one god.

 

[Lori_7]

Freedom to choose what exactly?

what you do and why you do it.

How is torturing people for eternity love? Ignorance? People are being tormented because they are ignorant? The Biblical God has some serious freaking issues man!

there comes a point where we can't claim ignorance anymore...that's the whole point. you can claim ignorance if you've never suffered.

So in other words, if people decide they don’t want to commune with God and love him (whatever that means) then they won’t get it. But you left out the part that its just not about not being able to rap with God…he will also send people to a place that he created for demons and its there that he designed for those souls to be tormented in every fashion. See, it’s just not about "you are not able to join our club", like the country club. It's also about him make sure you suffer for eternity too. This from a loving *cough* God? Yeah, right. I’ve got some swamp land to sell you too.

according to the laws of the universe (god), the natural result of a complete lack of communion with god is hell.

Okay. Let’s say that Lucifer holds a gun to your head and tells you that you can praise him and live happily in the hereafter or you can have free will and experience the most excruciating pain you’ve ever experienced for 100 years. Then after 100 years another…and another aka eternity. It’s free will. You have a choice and if you decide not to worship Satan then your eternal suffering will be your own choice. How can you argue with that? See, you want to roll your eyes too, huh?

you have a twisted understanding of the word "praise" because of your religious upbringing. you either love life and perpetuate it or you don't.

 

[Lori_7]

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the memory is real, since after the fact there's no way of establishing for certain that the experience was genuine.


If by "good one" you mean you mean "you can't substantiate it" then I'll agree.


So in other words generations past and possibly generations to come were already doomed to fail at whatever god wants us to achieve.
Nice one god.

ok, so screw memories. what i'm supposing is that what god wants us to achieve is life itself.

you don't see that what you're suggesting is sucking all the meaning out of life?

 

[Dywyddyr]

ok, so screw memories. what i'm supposing is that what god wants us to achieve is life itself.

Yet you can't support this in any way.

you don't see that what you're suggesting is sucking all the meaning out of life?

Is it? I'm asking you what the point of us having this life (and free will) is. Because every "reason" you've come up with so far merely demonstrates that god is either incompetent (i.e. not "god") or a sadist.

 

[Lori_7]

Yet you can't support this in any way.

i can by pointing out the fact that we're alive.

Is it? I'm asking you what the point of us having this life (and free will) is. Because every "reason" you've come up with so far merely demonstrates that god is either incompetent (i.e. not "god") or a sadist.

yes it is. why would you even trust a god to implant fake memories into your head and what would that even look like...logistically? how would you know if you were actually alive? that the whole thing wasn't some implanted memory? a deception.

the point is to commune and to love, and that isn't happening with fake memories.

 

[Dywyddyr]

i can by pointing out the fact that we're alive.

Which says nothing about god, nor his desires for us.

yes it is. why would you even trust a god to implant fake memories into your head and what would that even look like...logistically? how would you know if you were actually alive? that the whole thing wasn't some implanted memory? a deception.

Oh dear.
How could we NOT trust god if that's what he wanted us to do?
And your question about implanted memory reinforces MY point.
Why didn't he just implant the memory of life to start with and send the sinners away while keeping the good guys?
The ONLY difference between that what we have now is that people are actually suffering NOW.

the point is to commune and to love, and that isn't happening with fake memories.

Your "point" is a supposition and your addendum is irrelevant, since whatever god's got planned for us happens after we're dead. I.e. no longer communing nor loving.

 

[Light Travelling]

Which is useless for Lori's argument. If "knowledge is implanted in our genes by living" over generations how does that help any particular individual achieve... whatever it is we're supposed to achieve? That would mean that earlier in time individuals have no chance to achieve it and later ones would be entirely dependent on their ancestors.

I wasnt agreeing with Lori in any way, just making a point.

But I do think that our behaviour is affected by our ancestors through gene memory. Whether that leads to acheiving anything or not, I do not know

 

[(Q)]

Please define "true knowledge".

experience.

Complete bullshit. One's so-called "experiences" usually have diddly squat to do with knowledge or anything else and is only perception used by the deluded to override reality.

"Experiences" are what the deluded want the world to be like as opposed to what it already is. They're usually just too fucking lazy to learn anything and rely on their delusions.

 

[Light Travelling]

Complete bullshit. One's so-called "experiences" usually have diddly squat to do with knowledge or anything else and is only perception used by the deluded to override reality.

"Experiences" are what the deluded want the world to be like as opposed to what it already is. They're usually just too fucking lazy to learn anything and rely on their delusions.

You are missing the point. Life is experience, nothing more or less than that. We start to experience when we are born, and when we stop experiencing we are dead. We cannot help but experience. It is the point of life.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Perhaps you should first show that God exists before speculating on what he is.

been there, tried that..falls on deaf ears..

 

[NMSquirrel]

Yes, God is probably just an alien. Actually a committee of aliens. They are preparing our world for domination by getting us used to kingly figures in the sky, while at the same time dividing us by religious wars, and weakening us with prohibitions on nutritious animals (pigs, shellfish).

if that were true,they would have been here by now as there (IMO) are more believers at any given time in history than there is now..

 

[NMSquirrel]

Really?
A memory is "real"?
Please define "true knowledge".

if it bites you..that is true knowledge..
think about it.. ppl will spend more of their attention on something that is painfull(hurtfull) and less attention on something that is not.
anyway..

Which says nothing about god, nor his desires for us.

i often think of relationship with god is like a relationship with the perfect father, and we are his kids...
dyw do you have kids?
how would/do you discipline them?

Oh dear.
How could we NOT trust god if that's what he wanted us to do?
And your question about implanted memory reinforces MY point

.

i believe in genetic memory..what we as individual humans have of it,i don't know, i suppose it would have to be pretty basic, as few brain cells as possible..

Why didn't he just implant the memory of life to start with and send the sinners away while keeping the good guys?

then you would have no-one to argue with dyw..

The ONLY difference between that what we have now is that people are actually suffering NOW.

Your "point" is a supposition and your addendum is irrelevant, since whatever god's got planned for us happens after we're dead. I.e. no longer communing nor loving.[/QUOTE]
that supposes you know what is gonna happen after you are dead..
I.e. no longer communing nor loving

 

[Dywyddyr]

if it bites you..that is true knowledge..

And one more time: after you get "bitten" all you have is the memory. So what is the difference between the memory of doing something and god creating us with the memory of doing that thing?

i often think of relationship with god is like a relationship with the perfect father, and we are his kids...
dyw do you have kids?

No, but there were hundreds of the little buggers around when I was school: that was enough to put me off them.
And it still doesn't address the point...

i believe in genetic memory..what we as individual humans have of it,i don't know, i suppose it would have to be pretty basic, as few brain cells as possible..

So we're back to my point from earlier: "That would mean that earlier in time individuals have no chance to achieve it and later ones would be entirely dependent on their ancestors."

then you would have no-one to argue with dyw..

But I'd have the memory of the arguments, which all I have anyway, effectively.

that supposes you know what is gonna happen after you are dead..

Not at all, since I DID clearly state "whatever god's got planned for us happens after we're dead"

I.e. no longer communing nor loving

If you meant I'm assuming there's neither of those after we're dead then I suggest that you take it up with Lori, since SHE is the one that claimed

the point [of life] is to commune and to love

i.e. the reason we are alive is to do these things.
All I did was use her argument...

 

[NMSquirrel]

And one more time: after you get "bitten" all you have is the memory. So what is the difference between the memory of doing something and god creating us with the memory of doing that thing?

ok..maybe a little clarification on memory..
long term,short term..
memory engrams that are created due to our experiences are programed as we go..
some engrams contain the basics,(eat,sleep,poop,how to swat that fly on your forehead) stuff we don't think about very much, we just know..
i seriously doubt god can spontaniously create a experience memory without us experiencing it..

No, but there were hundreds of the little buggers around when I was school: that was enough to put me off them.
And it still doesn't address the point...

your gonna have to be a parent to understand..

So we're back to my point from earlier: "That would mean that earlier in time individuals have no chance to achieve it and later ones would be entirely dependent on their ancestors."

were not talking about things like how to build a nuclear reactor..

what do genes do? they determine how we are formed, makes sense to me that they would configure my brain to be like it is..what tells the genes to configure my brain like that?.. my parents genes..
as far as it carrying learned information/data from one to the next..like i said..it would have to be pretty basic..as few brain cells as nesscesary
(i don't think i will ever get that word spelled right..)

But I'd have the memory of the arguments, which all I have anyway, effectively.

not if everyone was the same (past tense) we would all agree and you would have no arguments..

If you meant I'm assuming there's neither of those after we're dead then I suggest that you take it up with Lori, since SHE is the one that claimed
i.e. the reason we are alive is to do these things.
All I did was use her argument...

hmmm