Is eating meat morally wrong

[TW Scott]

Yes. But it does help drive home the point to those who missed it the first few times.

What that you ignore facts in making your point?

I draw this conclusion from your own statements. But in case I am wrong...

Answer a straight question: what value do you believe animals have, other than in terms of their value to you or other human beings?

Well I do believe that animals have value to other animals, to their own kind, and to the environment in general. Of course in2 out of those three cases the value is food.

Hang on! Let me get this straight. You're saying that animals have value apart from their value to humans, but you're also saying the only value that matters is their value to humans. Isn't that just a tad inconsistent?

Yes, is that so hard to understand. For moral consideration we only factor in the value to humans. Since only humans have moral qualms this is fair. Now animals have different values to different things, most of the time as prey. However there is a paralell. Amazing Adventure #15 is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to collectors, but to a rabbit it is just colorful bedding.

Again, a straight question: WHY do you think farmed animals should be treated well up until their slaughter?

Mainly becuase in all honesty it smells better when you drive past the fields and the meat tastes better. Not to mention that I am not completely cruel. I think an animal should have a good life on it's way to serve it's purpose.

There's that word "unnatural" again, with the implication that unnatural is bad. A kind of reverse appeal to nature.

Just remember the burden of proving some natural as bad and unnatural as good is strictly on you.

Humans decide human morals, I'll grant. The morality of eating meat does not at all follow from that bare fact. Your ability to reason logically is, to say the least, shaky.

Oh yu mean my logic is inescapable and actually well formed and therefore a threat to you appeals to emotion. Sorry.

Isn't it.

I would imagine so, but i was asking you as you have the experience.

 

[Fabio4all]

I don't think it is. God doesn't send animals to hell for eating other animals. It all depends on the food chain. If you're not on the top, too bad.

 

[ranthi]

Until they can make a vegetarian hamburger that doesnt taste like Im eating a concentrated and compacted cube of crabgrass (excuse the illiteration)...Im sticking with the real deal.

 

[James R]

Until they can make a vegetarian hamburger that doesnt taste like Im eating a concentrated and compacted cube of crabgrass (excuse the illiteration)...Im sticking with the real deal.

They can. You probably just haven't looked at what's available lately.

I regularly eat vegetarian mince, bacon, ham, sausages and, yes, burgers. They all taste indistinguishable from the meat versions. You wouldn't know the difference, I promise.

 

[ranthi]

They can. You probably just haven't looked at what's available lately.

I regularly eat vegetarian mince, bacon, ham, sausages and, yes, burgers. They all taste indistinguishable from the meat versions. You wouldn't know the difference, I promise.

My statement was really meant as a joke...

Seriously though..I dont think it has anything to do with morality. Does a tiger feel bad when it eats a deer and decides after that to eat nothing but leaves and grass? Does a shark feel bad when it eats a catfish or half a school of other types of fish and decides from that point on to eat nothing but algae?

The only forbidden..moraly wrong thing having to do with eating I think is when a creature decides to feed on its own kind. This, I think..is a morality not bound by species.

 

[James R]

ranthi:

Your argument was covered earlier in the thread.

A tiger must eat meat to live. A human, on the other hand, does not have to eat meat. Humans just do it for fun.

 

[draqon]

I regularly eat vegetarian mince, bacon, ham, sausages and, yes, burgers. They all taste indistinguishable from the meat versions. You wouldn't know the difference, I promise.

I question that...

Even thou I dont really eat meat a lot...in fact 5 times a year or so. I did try the so called "soy" hamburgers...and boy did they taste like grass and wheats...basically not like meat tastes. I mean if one is a vegetarian...stay away from it completely, don't be eating fake meat sandwiches.

 

[draqon]

ranthi:

Your argument was covered earlier in the thread.

A tiger must eat meat to live. A human, on the other hand, does not have to eat meat. Humans just do it for fun.

Humans don't just do it for fun...meat allows humans to feel much more energetic than when just eating vegetarian food. And also, in many parts of the world meat is more accessible than vegetarian food.

James...what would Eskimos think of this?

 

[ranthi]

ranthi:

Your argument was covered earlier in the thread.

A tiger must eat meat to live. A human, on the other hand, does not have to eat meat. Humans just do it for fun.

I dont know. If I was lost in the forest somewhere and there was a choice between eating some of the local vegetation and knocking a wild pig in the head with a rock and cooking up some pork...I think I would eat the pig. Not because one could sustain me more than the other...its because not only does it taste better to me, if the meat wasnt meant for me to eat..it would be indigestible to humans or induce some sort of negative biological response like vomiting.

 

[Thoreau]

As a vegetarian myself, I don't agree with eating meat. Not because I find it disgusting, but because I do not support the way animals are treated. Many people think that that is a crazy reason to quit eating meat, but I don't care.

 

[ranthi]

As a vegetarian myself, I don't agree with eating meat. Not because I find it disgusting, but because I do not support the way animals are treated. Many people think that that is a crazy reason to quit eating meat, but I don't care.

So you made yourself a vegetarian out of protest? That is commendable.

 

[Thoreau]

So you made yourself a vegetarian out of protest? That is commendable.

Thank you. I actually use to enjoy the taste of meat, but now everytime I walk by it in a grocery store, it reminds me of the process they were put through, how they were treated, from thier birth to the dinner plate. I find it disturbing, cruel and inhumane.

I suggest everyone to watch this video, if not to quit eating meat but atleast to educate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

 

[ranthi]

Thank you. I actually use to enjoy the taste of meat, but now everytime I walk by it in a grocery store, it reminds me of the process they were put through, how they were treated, from thier birth to the dinner plate. I find it disturbing, cruel and inhumane.

I suggest everyone to watch this video, if not to quit eating meat but atleast to educate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

well, considering that right now I am making some hamburger helper with bison burger instead of normal hamburger....

maybe after I eat...

 

[Exhumed]

Thank you. I actually use to enjoy the taste of meat, but now everytime I walk by it in a grocery store, it reminds me of the process they were put through, how they were treated, from thier birth to the dinner plate. I find it disturbing, cruel and inhumane.

Good luck. I tried it for about a year, while still allowing myself fish (the "fruit" of the sea, not animals!! ).

It was a huge pain. Hard to find adequate nutrition all the time (I was definitely physically weaker), a strain around friends and others when it came to meals. Fighting the hunger for meat was the easy part.

I might go back to it if I move back to Asia, depending on where. It might be nice in a place like India where they have so many vegetarians and so much vegetarian food and nutrition.

 

[efahuq]

What are animals (except homo sapiens) for? To be eaten by us - humans. What are humans for? To be eaten by meat-eating animals eg. a tiger. Its a eat-or-be-eaten world... not a matter of right or wrong... its a question of existence...
If one says meat-giving animals have life then i say - vegetables have life too... which straightaway points out the truth that: life EATS life to survive eitherway.. there is nothing moral or immoral about it...
if meat-eating is a moral question then i would like to ask God if His creation of human beings is moral or immoral...???

 

[ashura]

As a vegetarian myself, I don't agree with eating meat. Not because I find it disgusting, but because I do not support the way animals are treated. Many people think that that is a crazy reason to quit eating meat, but I don't care.

This was my reasoning for becoming a vegan a few years back (no consuming any animal products including eggs, cheese, etc). Once the reality hit me that I was still taking advantage of animal suffering via leather and other things, and then even further that I was taking advantage of human suffering, clothes made in sweat shops etc, I rethought the entire philosophy and gave it up.

EDIT: As for the OP, no, I don't think eating meat is wrong.

 

[heliocentric]

So you were more interested in resolving your own hypocrisy via the most efficient method possible rather than having to make a series of extensive moral choices?
I know that sounds like im being an arse, but it is a genuine question, im just not sure how else to word it.
Thanks in advance.

 

[heliocentric]

What are animals (except homo sapiens) for? To be eaten by us - humans. What are humans for? To be eaten by meat-eating animals eg. a tiger. Its a eat-or-be-eaten world... not a matter of right or wrong... its a question of existence...

The point of living in a civilisised society is that we dont simply do whats natural - appealing to mother-nature.
If we all did that there'd be no laws against virtually any crime you can imagine since someone being subjected to a criminal act would simply mean that the strong were profiting and the weak were diminishing - nature would be taking it's proper course.
Again the point of society/civilisation is that you live by principles beyond those that nature lays down for you, vegetarianism is simply an extension of that.

If one says meat-giving animals have life then i say - vegetables have life too...

Vegetables dont have a central nervous system/cannot experience pain.

which straightaway points out the truth that: life EATS life to survive eitherway.. there is nothing moral or immoral about it...
if meat-eating is a moral question then i would like to ask God if His creation of human beings is moral or immoral...???

You can definitely argue that, John Locke certainly did (in a round about way).
But the problem i think you're missing is that by claiming that the laws of the natural world exist outside of ethical judgment, you're essentially claiming that we cannot say *anything* is immoral.

 

[ashura]

So you were more interested in resolving your own hypocrisy via the most efficient method possible rather than having to make a series of extensive moral choices?
I know that sounds like im being an arse, but it is a genuine question, im just not sure how else to word it.
Thanks in advance.

No offense taken.

I was interested in being on the moral high ground. After seeing the various documentaries and articles on the cruelty animals faced in some factories, the idea of eating meat and other animal products truly did disgust me. However, once I stepped back and took a look at the big picture, I realized the pointlessness of the thought process that motivated my veganism. Suffering will always be around, and suffering is the only way to maintain how humanity, and nature even, works. One creature's prize will always be another creature's toll. The best one can do is try and limit how much suffering one takes advantage of... but within convenience. You wouldn't ask a poor family to give up bread for the sake of the animals. Similarly, I had to put my own needs and wants first. Life would be considerably harder for me if I maintained a strict vegan lifestyle, while at the same time taking as little advantage as possible when it came to human suffering. Where would I get my clothes? My shoes? My electronics? It would be hypocritical of me to oppose the animal suffering but be complacent in the human one. Attain the true moral high ground, but at what cost?

These days I do my best to purchase animal products from farms that say they treat their animals well. It's easier to do so since I live in a city and I have such a resource available to me, but I can imagine it'd be considerably harder to do so for a lower income family, or someone who lived further away from such a resource. I would never say they were somehow less moral than I was just because they didn't do as I do.

Eurgh, I'm rambling. That all became a mish-mosh of my different thought processes when it comes to this subject. I hope you were able to get the answer you were looking for from that. The final statement is that I'm not a selfless individual, and I doubt anyone truly is. But I'm perfectly willing to admit my selfishness.

 

[James R]

efahuq:

What are animals (except homo sapiens) for? To be eaten by us - humans.

Tell me: if animals are for eating, what are you "for"?

If one says meat-giving animals have life then i say - vegetables have life too... which straightaway points out the truth that: life EATS life to survive eitherway.. there is nothing moral or immoral about it...

Is all life on an equal footing to you, then? Why don't you eat human beings, then?


ashura:

This was my reasoning for becoming a vegan a few years back (no consuming any animal products including eggs, cheese, etc). Once the reality hit me that I was still taking advantage of animal suffering via leather and other things, and then even further that I was taking advantage of human suffering, clothes made in sweat shops etc, I rethought the entire philosophy and gave it up.

It was all too much effort, so you decided to give up and join the mob.

EDIT: As for the OP, no, I don't think eating meat is wrong.

Why not?

I was interested in being on the moral high ground. After seeing the various documentaries and articles on the cruelty animals faced in some factories, the idea of eating meat and other animal products truly did disgust me. However, once I stepped back and took a look at the big picture, I realized the pointlessness of the thought process that motivated my veganism. Suffering will always be around, and suffering is the only way to maintain how humanity, and nature even, works.

So your philosophy now is that suffering is good, and you'll encourage more of it by your own actions. Sounds like you gave up the moral high ground.

The best on can do is try and limit how much suffering one takes advantage of... but within convenience.

Convenience, or need?

The fact is: you don't need to eat meat. You just like it. You won't die, or even suffer, if you don't eat meat.

Similarly, I had to put my own needs and wants first. Life would be considerably harder for me if I maintained a strict vegan lifestyle, while at the same time taking as little advantage as possible when it came to human suffering. Where would I get my clothes? My shoes? My electronics? It would be hypocritical of me to oppose the animal suffering but be complacent in the human one. Attain the true moral high ground, but at what cost?

So, instead of even going half way, you chose to do nothing at all.

Surely some moral action is better than none at all?