Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[James R]

In my opinion.... your answer to my post is brilliant and I love how you use technical jargon that I know would take years for me to learn!

Realise that Write4U doesn't actually understand half of the technical jargon he uses. This is just for show.

Do you find Write4U impressive? Is he as impressive as Bruce MacDonald?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

All these natural phenomena behave in accordance to their relational values via mathematical guiding algorithms.

In spite of many protestations I like to think that the universe functions in a non-sentient, but physically reactive quasi-intelligent mathematical manner, which over time evolved into more or less sentient awareness of self in relation to the environment in biological organisms on earth, for one. No magic, just a mathematical ordering from simple patterns into ever greater complexity.

i tend to agree
it makes plausible sense that electrical like life forms exist
while consciousness as we understand it must have physical properties
what we do not know is the relative frames that can contain a conscious life form in forms we are not aware of.
the nature of humanity's evolutionary drive to maintain arrogance is a survival instinct
it might well connect directly to greed and capitalism as a means to render development above that phase to be subservient.
it is clearly obvious religion as a while has the intent to suppress and create miss information to undermine advancement in these fields.
while on the other hand
we have fascism and communism(per say) systems of dictatorship and fear that promote a level of mandated ignorance and intellectual compliance on people and science in general.

now that all money is linked to science all science is money driven and money controlled
so we could postulate that until the world as a majority has secured a universal living wage along with housing and health care
such development will simply not be possible
will this spell the end for the species.
it looks logical in its current form as greed and lust for power seems to maintain its core overt hold on all leadership and systems of control finance and social culture design(schools and community construction and operation).

i need to be in the right head space for this type of discussion & given my current life situation that is fleeting and extremely short.
as the cost of living is driven higher and higher it removes the common people from being able to obtain deep insightful complex knowledge
this is by design by those who covet greed and fascist power.

overt material fear seems to be the primary mechanism of control
poverty & greed etc are the tools

if there is such a thing as a consciousness of light
can there be a consciousness of dark(dark energy?) the idea probably freaks out most religious people who would suppress such discussion
as 1 easy off hand way yo illustrate an easy conflict, regardless of those(many) who would seek to exploit it to enslave the rest of the population.

 

[foghorn]

Realise that Write4U doesn't actually understand half of the technical jargon he uses. This is just for show.

Do you find Write4U impressive? Is he as impressive as Bruce MacDonald?

You may find Write4U being quoted by dennis around the web forums from now on.

An easy search finds Dennis in lots of forums besides his own blog. One thing I notice is that Dennis will use quotes of members on different sites to back up his posts on another site. To quieten the noise here on this site, I'm sticking him on ignore.

 

[Write4U]

if there is such a thing as a consciousness of light can there be a consciousness of dark(dark energy?) the idea probably freaks out most religious people who would suppress such discussion as 1 easy off hand way yo illustrate an easy conflict, regardless of those(many) who would seek to exploit it to enslave the rest of the population

A little pessimistic IMO, but not fanciful.
I have a more optimistic view in that some day, perhaps not to far off we may making some breakthroughs in our study of quantum level.

I read once that between the smallest human observable objects and Planck scale lies an entire universe of unexplored space. Who know what goes on there is completely unknown. So, AFAIK , it's just a matter of time that we'll be able to explore that region more closely and perhaps be able to observe how particles emerge from quantum fields and if such things exist, be able to observe and measure the values of string .

Our brains seem capable of unlimited invention and given enough time we may unlock all of the universe's mysteries.

p.s. The first time I read the term "universe", I translated that as "the single song" (uni-verse).

Now I just read this: VERSE” = Spoken (or occasionally written) word, phrase,\ or sentence;

“UNI-VERSE” = A single, spoken word or sentence; → Our universe is a “UNI-VERSE” — Created by a single spoken WORD or SENTENCE, uttered by God! Click to see full answer.May 21, 2020

https://askinglot.com/what-does-verse-mean-in-universe

Interesting that science should use a religious term to describe our reality. Do scientists actually understand all the jargon they use?

 

[Write4U]

COGNITIVE THEORIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS

With so much said in the backdrop of cognitive correlates of consciousness, we next come to cognitive theories of consciousness proper. Broadly speaking, there are two categories of theories of consciousness, demarcated perhaps right from the origin of the branch. They are: (i) information processing/computational theories, which use classical symbol manipulation computing and (ii) representational/vehicle theories, which use the language of analog computing.

Information processing theories of consciousness

These theories seek to explain phenomenal experience in terms of special kinds of computational processes to which some of the brain's representational vehicles are subject. On this view, we become conscious of any representational content in any parallel distributed neuronal network, when their vehicles are able to do some particular computation jobs, independently of any particular intrinsic property of those vehicles.

What counts therefore, is “what representational vehicles do rather than what they are”. Typically, the claim is that the content of a representational vehicle is conscious when the vehicle has some privileged computational status, say by being available to an executive system or being inferentially promiscuous.[28] Consciousness is then a result of the rich and widespread informational access relations possessed by a subset of the information bearing states of a cognitive system.[13,29–36]

By far, the most popular among these theories is the one that proposes that consciousness depends on information access, that is, on the ability of the cerebral cortex to be able to access any particular information processing phenomenon, which becomes possible by the virtue of the particular computation process generating the information. This approach will be our topic of further discussion.

Representational theories of consciousness

On the contrary, these theories propose that consciousness is determined by the presence of some special intrinsic property of representational vehicles themselves, independently of any computations in which those vehicles engage. On this view, consciousness is expected to be explained in terms of the way the information is represented in any neuronal network.

Thus, for example, when watching a scene, what it is like for anyone to have the visual experience is to be explained in terms of the way in which the objects in the visual field - their shape, color relative size, and location, etc. - are represented in the individual's brain. In other words, consciousness depends on some aspect of the physical medium of representation.[37–40] It is to be recalled that this way of viewing any cognitive event is similar to and in fact, based on the analog computing phenomena, in which the internal representation of information in the computer is similar structurally to the external representanda.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2745874/

continued.......

 

[Write4U]

continued,

THE GLOBAL WORKSPACE MODEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS

This is an information processing theory, which has been amongst the most popular theories of consciousness. Before going into minute details of the theory, I will present a brief history of the concept.

The idea that brain has both conscious and unconscious events going on at the same time is not new. In 1959, the mathematician (and the coiner of the term “artificial intelligence”) John McCarthy, commenting on Oliver Selfridge's pioneering Pandemonium, the first model of a competitive, non-hierarchical computational architecture, clearly demarcated the outline of the global workspace model: “I would like to speak briefly about some of the advantages of the pandemonium model as an actual model of conscious behaviour. In observing a brain, one should make a distinction between that aspect of the behaviour which is made available consciously and the one which is not. If once conceives of the brain as a pandemonium - a collection of demons - perhaps what is going on within the demons can be regarded as the unconscious part of thought and what the demons are publicly shouting for each other to hear, as the conscious part”.

In the classic paper, the psychologist Paul Rozin[42] argued that, “Specializations… form the building blocks for higher level intelligence… and at the time of their origin, these specializations are tightly wired into the functional system they were designed to serve, thus remaining inaccessible to other programs or systems of the brain. I suggest that, in the course of evolution, they become more accessible to other systems and, in the extreme, may rise to the level of consciousness and be applied over the full realm of behavior or mental function (p. 276).”

But these were only theoretical constructs. The first experimental works in the field were done by Newell and Simon in 1972.[43] They were the first to show the utility of a global workspace capacity in a complex system of specialized knowledge sources, which could cooperatively solve problems that no single source could solve alone. But it was not linked to the idea of consciousness then.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2745874/

 

[Write4U]

The subconscious interoceptive part of your brain doesn't know you exist, yet it regulates your homeostasis. The only time it tells you something is when it goes wrong. The conscious perceptive part does know you exist, but it cannot control your homeostasis.

From Perception to Attention - Discovering the Brain - NCBI ...

Perception part of brain

It is in the primary visual cortex, located in the occipital lobes at the back of the head, that the brain first begins to assemble something that looks like an image to our conscious awareness.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234148/#

 

[RainbowSingularity]

A little pessimistic IMO, but not fanciful.

anti-vaxers
anti GMO
Anti Genetic engineering
Anti Stem Cell Research
anti abortion
anti animal testing
anti freedom of science research
all hedged inside institutionalized religion & pretend charity's
designed to turn the telescope at the ground & install fear & moral panic to prevent it from being moved

yet all those groups (counting into maybe 4 billion people if not more) are all happy to let millions die from covid

i am a realist not a pessimist
in principal given the current moral cultural ideology, the world is over populated to cope with the amount of greed and selfishness that consumes the leadership & economic designs & cultures(including religions)

Consciousness is immoral

So, AFAIK , it's just a matter of time that we'll be able to explore that region more closely and perhaps be able to observe how particles emerge from quantum fields and if such things exist, be able to observe and measure the values of string .

and once there, the ability to interact adjust and manipulate that area of real hard science would make outcomes look like magic

 

[Write4U]

and once there, the ability to interact adjust and manipulate that area of real hard science would make outcomes look like magic

To those who refused to look.
To those who do look, what once looked like magic, then begins to make sense.......

 

[billvon]

It seems clear that you don't have a clue what that paper is about. You're only copying its abstract here because it contains the magic word "microtubules". Never mind that you don't understand its contents.

I guess your aim is just to prove that microtubules are an active area of research, or similar, even if you don't understand what the research is about or why people want to do it.

Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine, bona fide
Analyzed, membrane microtubule
What'd I say?
"Microtubule!"
What's it called?
"Microtubule!"
That's right! Microtubule!
"Microtubule!"
"Microtubule!"
"Microtubule!"

"I hear those things are just cell parts!"
No sir, there's nothing it cannot do!
"Is there not more inside your heart?"
Not on your life, these things are NEW!
"What about biology?"
Microtubules do it all!
"What if you're stuck up in a tree?"
With microtubules you'll never fall!
"What if my house should be on fire?"
Microtubules save the day!
"What if someone says you're a liar?"
Microtubules! It's the only way!
"Microtubules!"
"Microtubules!"
"Microtubules!"
What are they called?
"Microtubules!"
Once more time!
"Microtubules!"

(apologies to Matt Groening)

 

[Michael 345]

Once more time!
"Microtubules!"

I tried something akin to your effort here
Mine didn't work
Hope you do better

 

[Write4U]

"Microtubules!"

Thank you for that accolade befitting the precious history and evolution of the roles microtubules fulfill in the body and brain (cytoskeleton and neural network).

Repetitive mention and analysis of microtubules and their functions in a thread devoted to the functions of microtubules and related filaments seems to have been successful in making an impression.

I call that clinical proof .

Now that the term microtubule is firmly imprinted in memory and has become an engram in the very microtubules that are being discussed, perhaps we can proceed to a more clinical discussion of this single potential candidate for the emergent and gradually evolving self-aware consciousness in all Eukaryotic organisms, from bacteria to humans

For an encore I'll repost a little abstraction of the purpose and findings of the research on the properties and roles that MT play in conscious awareness and in homeostasis in general.

Bundles of Brain Microtubules Generate Electrical Oscillations

• María del Rocío Cantero,
• Cecilia Villa Etchegoyen,
• Paula L. Perez,
• Noelia Scarinci &
• Horacio F. Cantiello

Scientific Reports volume 8, Article number: 11899 (2018)

Abstract

Microtubules (MTs) are long cylindrical structures of the cytoskeleton that control cell division, intracellular transport, and the shape of cells.

MTs also form bundles, which are particularly prominent in neurons, where they help define axons and dendrites. MTs are bio-electrochemical transistors that form nonlinear electrical transmission lines.

However, the electrical properties of most MT structures remain largely unknown. Here we show that bundles of brain MTs spontaneously generate electrical oscillations and bursts of electrical activity similar to action potentials. Under intracellular-like conditions, voltage-clamped MT bundles displayed electrical oscillations with a prominent fundamental frequency at 39 Hz that progressed through various periodic regimes. The electrical oscillations represented, in average, a 258% change in the ionic conductance of the MT structures.

Interestingly, voltage-clamped membrane-permeabilized neurites of cultured mouse hippocampal neurons were also capable of both, generating electrical oscillations, and conducting the electrical signals along the length of the structure.

Our findings indicate that electrical oscillations are an intrinsic property of brain MT bundles, which may have important implications in the control of various neuronal functions, including the gating and regulation of cytoskeleton-regulated excitable ion channels and electrical activity that may aid and extend to higher brain functions such as memory and consciousness.

More.......
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30453-2#

Resistance is futile!

 

[Write4U]

Is he as impressive as Bruce MacDonald?

Who is Bruce MacDonald?

 

[Write4U]

Analyzed, membrane microtubule

Why do you limit the functions of microtubules to that single activity?

Functional coupling of microtubules to membranes – implications for membrane structure and dynamics
David J. Stephens
Journal of Cell Science 2012 125: 2795-2804; doi: 10.1242/jcs.097675

Summary

The microtubule network dictates much of the spatial patterning of the cytoplasm, and the coupling of microtubules to membranes controls the structure and positioning of organelles and directs membrane trafficking between them. The connection between membranes and the microtubule cytoskeleton, and the way in which organelles are shaped and moved by interactions with the cytoskeleton, have been studied intensively in recent years. In particular, recent work has expanded our thinking of this topic to include the mechanisms by which membranes are shaped and how cargo is selected for trafficking as a result of coupling to the cytoskeleton.

In this Commentary, I will discuss the molecular basis for membrane–motor coupling and the physiological outcomes of this coupling, including the way in which microtubule-based motors affect membrane structure, cargo sorting and vectorial trafficking between organelles. Whereas many core concepts of these processes are now well understood, key questions remain about how the coupling of motors to membranes is established and controlled, about the regulation of cargo and/or motor loading and about the control of directionality.

Note that the microtubule structure is not a membrane as depicted by the smear in the illustration. It is a self-assembling dynamical bipolar tubular coil (see next post)

Motors in organelle positioning and signal transduction

The endo-lysosomal system is central to metabolic sensing because it is involved in the trafficking of signalling complexes. Receptor trafficking through this system is relevant to the localization of active signalling complexes but also impacts on the duration of signals by redirecting receptors to the recycling pathway or towards degradation. Similar concepts underpin regulated trafficking of adhesion molecules and plasma membrane ion channels and transporters. Endo-lysosomal positioning has been shown to regulate complex physiological outcomes, such as decoding of morphogen gradients during development (see Rainero and Norman, 2011).

In addition to mediating the coupling of motors to membranes during membrane trafficking, as discussed above, it appears that Rab proteins have a central role in organelle positioning. Rab7 interacts with dynein–dynactin through a series of adaptors including Rab-interacting lysosomal protein (RILP) (Jordens et al., 2001). RILP interacts directly with Rab7 and dynactin, yet this complex is not sufficient to drive endosome motility.

Two other factors, the oxysterol-binding protein-related protein 1L (ORP1L) and beta-III spectrin – which acts as a general receptor for dynactin on membranes (Holleran et al., 2001; Muresan et al., 2001) – are also required (Johansson et al., 2007). It has been proposed that ORP1L senses the cholesterol status of the late endosomal membrane and can direct peripheral, low-cholesterol-containing Rab7-positive late endosomes to interact with the ER by binding to vesicle-associated protein (VAP) (Rocha et al., 2009).

This removes the dynein–dynactin components, allowing plus-end-directed transport of late endosomes. This role for Rab7 gives insight into the coupling of metabolic sensing with motor activity to regulate organelle positioning, and the same interaction network has also been implicated in the positioning of secretory granules in cytotoxic T lymphocytes (Daniele et al., 2011).

The endo-lysosomal system is central to metabolic sensing because it is involved in the trafficking of signalling complexes. Receptor trafficking through this system is relevant to the localization of active signalling complexes but also impacts on the duration of signals by redirecting receptors to the recycling pathway or towards degradation. Similar concepts underpin regulated trafficking of adhesion molecules and plasma membrane ion channels and transporters. Endo-lysosomal positioning has been shown to regulate complex physiological outcomes, such as decoding of morphogen gradients during development (see Rainero and Norman, 2011).

In addition to mediating the coupling of motors to membranes during membrane trafficking, as discussed above, it appears that Rab proteins have a central role in organelle positioning. Rab7 interacts with dynein–dynactin through a series of adaptors including Rab-interacting lysosomal protein (RILP) (Jordens et al., 2001). RILP interacts directly with Rab7 and dynactin, yet this complex is not sufficient to drive endosome motility. Two other factors, the oxysterol-binding protein-related protein 1L (ORP1L) and beta-III spectrin – which acts as a general receptor for dynactin on membranes (Holleran et al., 2001; Muresan et al., 2001) – are also required (Johansson et al., 2007). It has been proposed that ORP1L senses the cholesterol status of the late endosomal membrane and can direct peripheral, low-cholesterol-containing Rab7-positive late endosomes to interact with the ER by binding to vesicle-associated protein (VAP) (Rocha et al., 2009). This removes the dynein–dynactin components, allowing plus-end-directed transport of late endosomes. This role for Rab7 gives insight into the coupling of metabolic sensing with motor activity to regulate organelle positioning, and the same interaction network has also been implicated in the positioning of secretory granules in cytotoxic T lymphocytes (Daniele et al., 2011).

Article navigation

• Top
• Article
  • Summary
  • Introduction
  • Numbers and types of motors associated with dynamic membranes
  • Coupling of microtubule motors to membranes
  • Roles for motors in membrane remodelling
  • Motors in organelle positioning and signal transduction
  • Microtubule dynamics drive membrane movement
  • Perspectives
  • Acknowledgments
  • Footnotes
  • References
• Figures & tables
• Info & metrics
• PDF

https://jcs.biologists.org/content/125/12/2795

 

[Write4U]

There is more to microtubules than membrane connections.

The model of local axon homeostasis - explaining the role and regulation of microtubule bundles in axon maintenance and pathology

• Ines Hahn,
• André Voelzmann,
• Yu-Ting Liew,
• Beatriz Costa-Gomes &
• Andreas Prokop

Neural Development volume 14, Article number: 11 (2019)

Abstract

Axons are the slender, cable-like, up to meter-long projections of neurons that electrically wire our brains and bodies. In spite of their challenging morphology, they usually need to be maintained for an organism's lifetime. This makes them key lesion sites in pathological processes of ageing, injury and neurodegeneration.

The morphology and physiology of axons crucially depends on the parallel bundles of microtubules (MTs), running all along to serve as their structural backbones and highways for life-sustaining cargo transport and organelle dynamics.

Understanding how these bundles are formed and then maintained will provide important explanations for axon biology and pathology. Currently, much is known about MTs and the proteins that bind and regulate them, but very little about how these factors functionally integrate to regulate axon biology. As an attempt to bridge between molecular mechanisms and their cellular relevance, we explain here the model of local axon homeostasis, based on our own experiments in Drosophila and published data primarily from vertebrates/mammals as well as C. elegans.

The model proposes that (1) the physical forces imposed by motor protein-driven transport and dynamics in the confined axonal space, are a life-sustaining necessity, but pose a strong bias for MT bundles to become disorganised. (2) To counterbalance this risk, MT-binding and -regulating proteins of different classes work together to maintain and protect MT bundles as necessary transport highways. Loss of balance between these two fundamental processes can explain the development of axonopathies, in particular those linking to MT-regulating proteins, motors and transport defects. With this perspective in mind, we hope that more researchers incorporate MTs into their work, thus enhancing our chances of deciphering the complex regulatory networks that underpin axon biology and pathology.

Introduction

Axons are the slender, cable-like extensions of nerve cells which form the nerves and nerve tracts that wire our brain and body, sending neuronal messages in highly regulated manners. With diameters of only 0.1-15μm [1], they extend over distances of up to a meter in humans. To adopt such a unique morphology and physiology, axons display many specialised features (Fig. 1).

Specific properties of axons. Axons during the growth cone stage are shown in (a) and after synaptic maturation in (b), differing primarily in certain stage-specific specialisations including growth cones, synapses, electrical properties and glial interactions (here myelination [389, 392]). The core machinery in the axon shaft can be expected to be similar at both stages: parallel continuous bundles of extended but discontinuous MTs run all along axons serving as a structural backbone (see Fig. 2), a transport highway for axonal trafficking (driven by motor proteins), and a source for 'off-track' MTs contributing to morphogenetic processes including branch formation, directed axon growth and synapse formation/plasticity (green, orange, blue curved arrows); MT bundles are interspersed with longitudinal actin trails [18, 24], continuous networks of (smooth) endoplasmic reticulum [44, 393], and other membranous organelles including mitochondria [45]; axonal membranes display regularly spaced periodic rings of cortical actin [20, 21], a high number of ion-specific channel proteins and transporters to conduct nerve impulses [394], as well as adhesions with external structures including fasciculating parallel axons (not shown), glial processes [395] and synaptic partner cells [396]; a degree of independence from cell-body derived proteins is provided by local translation machinery [397,398,399] or supply from surrounding glia cells (not shown; [400,401,402,403]). Note that the axon diameter in the region between glia cells in B (referred to as Node of Ranvier) usually has a much smaller diameter than the rest of the axon [1]

Axons are indispensable for nervous system function, as illustrated by paralysis in spinal cord injury caused by the interruption of ascending and descending axon tracts [2, 3]. Axons are key lesion sites in injury-induced trauma and coma [4,5,6,7], and axon decay is believed to be an important trigger for neuronal decay in ageing and many neurodegenerative disorders [8, 9]. Notably, most neurons cannot be replaced, and compensation of lost axons through collateral branching of intact neighbouring axons has obvious limitations [9, 10].

This means that most axons have to be maintained for an organism's life time, i.e. up to a century in humans; unsurprisingly, mammals tend to lose almost half their axon mass towards high age [11, 12]. This trend is severely enhanced in neurodegenerative disorders, as illustrated by gradually increasing paralysis in spastic paraplegia or motorneuron disease [13, 14].

Research into neurodegenerative disorders typically approaches the problem by describing observed phenotypes and unravelling the molecular mechanisms performed by proteins linked to the disease. However, this approach rarely leads to satisfactory explanations of the pathology [15]. We believe that more profound understanding will arise when widening the scope from molecular to cellular mechanisms, by studying how proteins work within regulatory networks to underpin observable processes of axon biology - thus performing investigations at the same level of complexity at which pathology becomes manifest. Here we will illustrate this approach by focussing on the axonal cytoskeleton......more

https://neuraldevelopment.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13064-019-0134-0

One might have a peek at: https://www.proteinatlas.org/humanproteome/cell/microtubules

 

[RainbowSingularity]

discussion moved soo far into your own thread topic i have replied inside it to prevent moderators getting complaints about being off topic and to help continue your thread subject

which i am very interested in

Organic Life as we normally define it.
Not necessarily. Your cells may disintegrate and become food for a rose bush. But that only makes you part of a rose bush and will provide energy, but that does not make you the rose bush
Maybe so, but science tells us that apart from enthropy systems and patternsundergo constant change from one state into another. Bur AFAIK there is no law demanding that change from a living state must result into another living state. Biological molecules disintegrate and dissolve into simpler compounds or patterns all the time .

Let' s not forget that some 90% of the human biome consists of bacteria, which actually protect us from the environment and are essential in homeostasis.

Complex Life appears to be a compound pattern of many individual parts. Which supports the notion that Life, like Consciousness is an emergent property of specific compound patterns.

you appear to be dancing around the hard science

the consciousness as a conscious awareness of self
is in its intellect the essence of the self and conceptualization of a soul in its pure essence

Biological molecules disintegrate and dissolve into simpler compounds or patterns all the time .

Let' s not forget that some 90% of the human biome consists of bacteria,

sounds like a new sub-topic for your thread

bacterial consciousness
versus
electrical consciousness

neuro transmitters transmit electrical signals engaged by chemical process to engage chemical actualities
thus biology chemistry & electrical fields all interact
but does that define bacterial independence ? not specifically(obviously)

so while you may mathematically reduce neuro transmitters down to light frequency's and then on down to string theory etc
the consciousness is not specifically defined as a mechanism of light
thus
the quantum level

i wonder why your dancing around this aspect
most Americans are christian and raised to believe science generally aligns to religious ideology
am i speaking to your inner christian or your inner scientist ?

Complex Life appears to be a compound pattern of many individual parts. Which supports the notion that Life, like Consciousness is an emergent property of specific compound patterns.

subjective summery of assumed probabilistic concepts

Which supports the notion that

we can make anything support anything
and those read in enough know the complex reality of genetic knowledge
limbic knowledge
genetic predispositions
bacterial and viral influence on personality aspects which drive breeding practices
etc etc
all stuff wanted to be hidden and covered up by the church and many others

but this IS a discussion about SCIENCE
NOT a feel good warm fuzzy for partial secular creationists to feel obligingly mandated to conformist ambivalence
halcyon science?


NOTE i do like your delivery and tone
dont change that
its very nice(eloquent styled and informative)
im just slightly annoyed at something unrelated & getting to the point

 

[Write4U]

sounds like a new sub-topic for your thread

bacterial consciousness
versus
electrical consciousness

I have addressed this before in the thread on chemical "Quorum Sensing" (see Bonnie Bassler). When I mention these subjects it is because I have already posted them in great detail in prior posts and reference to them is always at least tangently related to the OP topic.

It's hard to avoid mentioning E = Mc^2 , when discussing SR.

But as terms like microtubules and quorum sensing are relatively new terms in science, they are viewed with suspicion and misunderstanding as is evident in Vociferous' complete mis-interpretation.

http://sciforums.com/threads/quorum-sensing-this-is-remarkable.161640/
and
http://sciforums.com/threads/quorum-sensing-this-is-remarkable.161640/#post-3568940

Perhaps all my research efforts are not wasted after all........

p.s. Thanks for the constructive critique. I seldom get into the hard science and mostly stay on the philosophical fringe, the fundamental perspectives of patterns that lead to understanding. (Roger Antonsen)

 

[billvon]

Thank you for that accolade befitting the precious history and evolution of the roles microtubules fulfill in the body and brain (cytoskeleton and neural network).

That came from a Simpsons episode - "Marge vs. the Monorail." It involved a shyster coming in to town and bilking the town out of millions to build a monorail, which he claimed could do everything from reducing crime to bringing Springfield lots of investment to giving everyone cushy jobs.

That, in turn, was a takeoff on "The Music Man" a famous musical about another conman who sells people on a high school band that will do similar miraculous things; there's nothing this band can't do!

Sound familiar?

 

[Write4U]

That came from a Simpsons episode - "Marge vs. the Monorail." It involved a shyster coming in to town and bilking the town out of millions to build a monorail, which he claimed could do everything from reducing crime to bringing Springfield lots of investment to giving everyone cushy jobs.

I would recommend you stay with the Simpsons

That, in turn, was a takeoff on "The Music Man" a famous musical about another conman who sells people on a high school band that will do similar miraculous things; there's nothing this band can't do!

Except I am not a shyster nor a conman and I back up all my post with links to the science . You just hide behind your anonymity with your vulgar ad hominems.

Sound familiar?

Not to me. Maybe to you? It just keep getting worse and worse doesn't it?
Now I am compared to a shyster and a conman. Why don't you just ........... ......... (familiar sounds) !

 

[billvon]

Not to me.

I figured. You're pretty blind to that sort of thing.

Now I am compared to a shyster and a conman.

Well, to your credit, you are not trying to bilk anyone out of anything, as those two were trying to do. You just use the same tactics they do.