Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

In consideration of the role of "microtubules" in heart function......
would you say that there could be a correlation between the way that microtubules work in the human heart........

with what appears to be the human heart putting out more electromagnetic energy than is put out even by our brains?????

https://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart/energetic-communication/

Science of the HeartNew!
Exploring the Role of the Heart in Human Performance

An Overview of Research Conducted by the HeartMath Institute

Was my statement above incorrect? Is it "electromagnetic energy" that the heart is putting out.... .or is it "magnetic energy?"

I don't have a clue, but I have read that in an experiment a still beating adult heart in a petri dish was placed near the still beating heart of a baby in a petri dish, that after a few moments the baby's heart started beating in synchrony with the adult heart, even as they did not touch.

If true, to me that was a remarkable discovery with some interesting implications.

Elsewhere I have posted a video of natural synchrony occurring between metronomes, in one remarkable example.

 

[Dennis Tate]

I don't have a clue, but I have read that in an experiment a still beating adult heart in a petri dish was placed near the still beating heart of a baby in a petri dish, that after a few moments the baby's heart started beating in synchrony with the adult heart, even as they did not touch.

If true, to me that was a remarkable discovery with some interesting implications.

Elsewhere I have posted a video of natural synchrony occurring between metronomes, in one remarkable example.

I absolutely agree with your feeling that this happening is remarkable and has interesting implications!

You don't happen to remember where that video is at here on the forum do you?

 

[Write4U]

I absolutely agree with your feeling that this happening is remarkable and has interesting implications!

You don't happen to remember where that video is at here on the forum do you?

Yep, I was debating if I should repost the link, but undoubtedly I would be accused of spamming......

I posted it in "Black Holes do not exist" in Pseudoscience sub-forum, post # 236

 

[LeeDa]

I don't understand what you mean.

Quantum words? trying to help with the quantum part i guess. this is a language and it bears weight and applies to all languages. it can go anywhere till it's understood. so im a quantum warkid soundtest.

 

[LeeDa]

Can you explain how that "science" pertains to the OP?

as above.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Quantum words? trying to help with the quantum part i guess. this is a language and it bears weight and applies to all languages. it can go anywhere till it's understood. so im a quantum warkid soundtest.

Yes.

 

[LeeDa]

quantum red handed

couple examples

Welcome to the matrix/magix
Adolf/Outof Hitler/Hateliar
God/t the holy spirit

 

[Beer w/Straw]

quantum red handed

couple examples

Welcome to the matrix/magix
Adolf/Outof Hitler/Hateliar
God/t the holy spirit

Thrilling!

 

[Write4U]

as above.

Poetic science, that's new.
Is it colder upstairs than in the winter?

 

[James R]

Microtubules Nonlinear Models Dynamics Investigations through the exp(−Φ(ξ))-Expansion Method Implementation
by Nur Alam and Fethi Bin Muhammad Belgacem

1 Department of Mathematics, Pabna University of Science & Technology, Pabna 6600, Bangladesh
2 Department of Mathematics, Faculty of Basic Education, PAAET, Al-Ardhiya 92400, Kuwait

Author to whom correspondence should be addressed;
Academic Editor: Reza Abedi
Mathematics 2016, 4(1), 6; https://doi.org/10.3390/math4010006

Abstract
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7390/4/1/6/htm

What are the implications of this paper? Why is this important?

 

[James R]

No chance. The guy is a physicist.

More of a mathematician, really. I'll grant you theoretical physicist.

I'll agree with you that he would most probably be completely uninterested in Tejman's religiously-inspired pseudoscience.

 

[James R]

In his book "A Mathematical Universe" Max Tegmark advances the mathematical nature of universal dynamics. His claim is that the universe does not have "some" mathematical properties, but that it has "only" mathematical properties, a hypothesis which is supported by our increasing knowledge of physics.

Seriously? You're now cross-posting even in your own threads?

Or would cross-promoting be a better term?

 

[Write4U]

Seriously? You're now cross-posting even in your own threads?
Or would cross-promoting be a better term?

What cross-posting? That post was in response to an inquiry by David Tate.

I am stating a fact. I also referred to the proposed hierarchy of (mathematical) orders in David Bohm's book "Wholeness and the Implicate Order" (post 1877)

When I speak of Order I mean Orderly Patterns, and Orderly Patterns are in essence mathematical and measurable, universal constants which are applicable to all of physics, including brain function. Consciousness is not a magic sauce, it is an emergent phenomenon of physical brain functions and there for measurable. Tegmark proposes that some brain patterns ARE conscious, a very elegant solution to the "hard problem".

At the time David seemed interested in those subjects.

What are the implications of this paper? Why is this important?

Abstract

In this research article, we present exact solutions with parameters for two nonlinear model partial differential equations (PDEs) describing microtubules, by implementing the exp(−Φ(ξ))-Expansion Method. The considered models, describing highly nonlinear dynamics of microtubules, can be reduced to nonlinear ordinary differential equations.

Seems this is directly relative to ORCH OR, Orchestrated Objective Reduction . No magic, just measurable physics.

p.s. note the use of the term "differential equations" in context of microtubule dynamics.

 

[Write4U]

We are all somewhat scared of the implications of what sort of life form / Intelligence would come into existence and evolve in that original fundamental energy that to some degree corresponds with Energy from Quantum Vacuum.

Theoretically, if fundamental energy could form a pattern that yielded the emergence of a conscious intelligence, it might be an item for consideration.
The problem is that, as far as we know raw energy itself inherently chaotic and only becomes functional (able to do work) as part of a system, a pattern. As it took evolution a few billion years of natural selection to form a self-conscious neural pattern, specifically evolved for processing information, it is unlikely that such a pattern might spontaneously emerge from chaos. Chaos deals with very subtle changes resulting in large change "over time" (butterfly effect).

But given the universal laws which appear to guide physical change, enough time and raw materials may well result in evolved physical patterns with emergent property of consciousness.

In addition ORCH OR, there are two more new approaches to consciousness. IIT (Integrated Information Theory) is one of them.

Integrated Information Theory
Giulio Tononi (2015), Dr. Giulio Tononi, University of Wisconsin-Madison

Integrated information theory (IIT) attempts to identify the essential properties of

consciousness (axioms) and, from there, infers the properties of physical systems that can account for it (postulates). Based on the postulates, it permits in principle to derive, for any particular system of elements in a state, whether it has consciousness, how much, and which particular experience it is having. IIT offers a parsimonious explanation for empirical evidence, makes testable predictions, and permits inferences and extrapolations.

Introduction: From phenomenology to mechanisms

Neuroscience has made great progress in explaining how brain mechanisms perform cognitive functions such as perceptual categorization, attention allocation, decision making, motor control, memory acquisition, language parsing, and so on. However, there seems to be an explanatory gap (Levine 1983) or “hard” problem (Chalmers 1996) if one tries to explain, even in principle, why a particular set of neural elements in a state (say, some neurons within my brain firing and some not) should give rise to experience, that is, “feel like something.”[1]

Integrated information theory acknowledges that one cannot infer the existence of consciousness starting from physical systems (“from matter, never mind”). Instead, IIT takes the opposite approach: it starts from experience itself, by identifying its essential properties (axioms), and then infers what kind of properties physical systems must have to account for its essential properties (postulates).

Then IIT employs the postulates to derive, for any particular system of elements in a state, whether it has consciousness, how much, and of which kind. From these premises, IIT offers a parsimonious explanation for empirical evidence, makes testable predictions, and permits inferences and extrapolations. An exposition of IIT and some of its implications can be found in (Tononi 2008, Tononi 2012, Oizumi, Albantakis et al. 2014, Tononi and Koch 2014). A discussion of the neurobiological evidence for IIT is found in (Tononi and Koch 2008).

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Integrated_information_theory

 

[Dennis Tate]

Theoretically, if fundamental energy could form a pattern that yielded the emergence of a conscious intelligence, it might be an item for consideration.
The problem is that, as far as we know raw energy itself inherently chaotic and only becomes functional (able to do work) as part of a system, a pattern. As it took evolution a few billion years of natural selection to form a self-conscious neural pattern, specifically evolved for processing information, it is unlikely that such a pattern might spontaneously emerge from chaos. Chaos deals with very subtle changes resulting in large change "over time" (butterfly effect).

But given the universal laws which appear to guide physical change, enough time and raw materials may well result in evolved physical patterns with emergent property of consciousness.

In addition ORCH OR, there are two more new approaches to consciousness. IIT (Integrated Information Theory) is one of them.

Integrated Information Theory
Giulio Tononi (2015), Dr. Giulio Tononi, University of Wisconsin-Madison

Introduction: From phenomenology to mechanisms http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Integrated_information_theory

But... the fact that Dr. Stephen Hawking's ideas on The Anthropic Principle imply Energy from Quantum Vacuum existing for infinite time in the past.....
(not for merely thirteen point eight billion years)..... expands the question of Intelligence beginning and evolution beginning and continuing in fundamental energy back to infinite time in the past...
this increases the probability of intelligence coming into existence in the past by an essentially infinite factor over an evolutionary theory limited to four dimensional space - time and our universe and to our little part of our universe.

Consciousness in physical patterns would be far less energetic than whatever form of consciousness would form in Energy from Quantum Vacuum over infinite time in the past.

The Energy postulated by String Theory would go through an astonishing array of "experiences" over the time period that fundamental energy would have existed from.

Integrated information theory acknowledges that one cannot infer the existence of consciousness starting from physical systems (“from matter, never mind”). Instead, IIT takes the opposite approach: it starts from experience itself, by identifying its essential properties (axioms), and then infers what kind of properties physical systems must have to account for its essential properties (postulates).

My conclusion is that however many Big Bang type of events may have occurred.....
they would be much more likely to have been planned by that Intelligence and would not be merely random as Dr. Hawking postulated in writings on the Anthropic Principle.

 

[Write4U]

My conclusion is that however many Big Bang type of events may have occurred.....
they would be much more likely to have been planned by that Intelligence and would not be merely random as Dr. Hawking postulated in writings on the Anthropic Principle.

In a self-organizing universe an intelligent designer is superfluous. I subscribe to the notion that there is no such thing as irreducible complexity. I subscribe to relational values and mathematical processes and those concepts can exist in the abstract.

The strong anthropic principle (SAP), as proposed by John D. Barrow and Frank Tipler, states that the universe is in some sense compelled to eventually have conscious and sapient life emerge within it.

And rather than saying this universe is fine tuned to accommodate humans, it is more logical to say that humans and all other life is fine tuned to accommodate the universe.

After all this universe has only existed 13.8 billion years and started from chaos. Whatever came before doesn't count, that's gone. If there is a multiverse, do parralell universes still exist or is there a chronology of universal trial and error, similar to particles emerging from a quantum field and disappearing back into the quantum soup, some universes may live a little while before disintegrating back into chaos. After all it is predicted that will eventually happen to this universe. The Enthropy Principle.

Entropy is a scientific concept, as well as a measurable physical property that is most commonly associated with a state of disorder, randomness, or uncertainty.

The term and the concept are used in diverse fields, from classical thermodynamics, where it was first recognized, to the microscopic description of nature in statistical physics, and to the principles of information theory. It has found far-ranging applications in chemistry and physics, in biological systems and their relation to life, in cosmology, economics, sociology, weather science, climate change, and information systems including the transmission of information in telecommunication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

It is noted that the entropy principle, rather than the energy principle, is the true universal principle.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-05746-6_5#

 

[Dennis Tate]

In a self-organizing universe an intelligent designer is superfluous. I subscribe to the notion that there is no such thing as irreducible complexity. I subscribe to relational values and mathematical processes and those concepts can exist in the abstract. And rather than saying this universe is fine tuned to accommodate humans, it is more logical to say that humans and all other life is fine tuned to accommodate the universe.

After all this universe has only existed 13.8 billion years and started from chaos. Whatever came before doesn't count, that's gone. If there is a multiverse, do parralell universes still exist or is there a chronology of universal trial and error, similar to particles emerging from a quantum field and disappearing back into the quantum soup, some universes may live a little while before disintegrating back into chaos. After all it is predicted that will eventually happen to this universe. The Enthropy Principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-05746-6_5#

In my opinion.... your answer to my post is brilliant and I love how you use technical jargon that I know would take years for me to learn!

Wow!!!!!!

 

[Write4U]

Thank you Dennis, we try.........

 

[Write4U]

Microtubules are found in all characterized eukaryotic organisms. Thus, the last common ancestor of eukaryotes had microtubules; this ancestor also had the dynein and kinesin motors that operate on the microtubule cytoskeleton (Sweeney and Holzbaur 2016).

Microtubules and Microtubule-Associated Proteins
Holly V. Goodson and Erin M. Jonasson

SUMMARY

Microtubules act as “railways” for motor-driven intracellular transport, interact with accessory proteins to assemble into larger structures such as the mitotic spindle, and provide an organizational framework to the rest of the cell. Key to these functions is the fact that microtubules are “dynamic.” As with actin, the polymer dynamics are driven by nucleotide hydrolysis and influenced by a host of specialized regulatory proteins, including microtubule-associated proteins.

However, microtubule turnover involves a surprising behavior—termed dynamic instability—in which individual polymers switch stochastically between growth and depolymerization. Dynamic instability allows microtubules to explore intracellular space and remodel in response to intracellular and extracellular cues. Here, we review how such instability is central to the assembly of many microtubule-based structures and to the robust functioning of the microtubule cytoskeleton.

1. INTRODUCTION

Along with actin (Pollard 2016) and intermediate filaments (Herrmann and Aebi 2016; Hol and Capetanaki 2016; Jacob et al. 2016; Jones et al. 2016; Yuan et al. 2016), microtubules (Figs. 1 and and2)2) constitute one of the three main classes of cytoskeletal filaments in eukaryotic cells. Microtubules are found in all characterized eukaryotic organisms. Thus, the last common ancestor of eukaryotes had microtubules; this ancestor also had the dynein and kinesin motors that operate on the microtubule cytoskeleton (Sweeney and Holzbaur 2016).

Many prokaryotes have at least one gene homologous to that encoding tubulin, the most common of which encodes FtsZ, a protein that forms polymers involved in cytokinesis. These observations suggest that the tubulin gene family appeared very early, perhaps in the last common ancestor of all forms of life on Earth (Pollard and Goldman 2016). Even without knowing anything else about microtubules, the maintenance of these structures and their constituent proteins across such a large span of time and in highly divergent organisms indicates that they have a fundamental role in eukaryotic cell biology.

Figure 1.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5983186/#

 

[James R]

Write4U;

What cross-posting?

Cross-posting usually means putting the same content into two different threads. It can also mean posting something in thread A which links to thread B, and also posting in thread B to link back to thread A. The upshot is that an attempt is made to spread a single discussion over two separate threads.

What are the implications of this paper? Why is this important?

Abstract
[snip]

Seems this is directly relative to ORCH OR, Orchestrated Objective Reduction . No magic, just measurable physics.

It is interesting to me that you posted a paper, but when I asked you what it is actually saying and why it is important/relevant, the best you could do was to repost the abstract.

It seems clear that you don't have a clue what that paper is about. You're only copying its abstract here because it contains the magic word "microtubules". Never mind that you don't understand its contents.

I guess your aim is just to prove that microtubules are an active area of research, or similar, even if you don't understand what the research is about or why people want to do it.

Notice that while you mention "ORCH OR", there is no mention of that in the abstract. I'm guessing there's similarly no mention of it in the paper itself. So, it's a mystery as to why you would reach the conclusion that the paper's contents are somehow "directly relative [relevant?] to ORCH OR". Just further confirmation that you don't really know what the paper's about, if you ask me.

p.s. note the use of the term "differential equations" in context of microtubule dynamics.

Why is that notable? Any ideas, or are you now also latching on to any mention of "differential equations" that you can find, as well?