Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

From Write4U , post #939 , second paragraph ;
What happens if more than one conscious observer , makes a measurement of a physical system ?

What prevents a quasi-conscious observer from affecting the collapse?

The system collapses but only can only be experienced (observed) from the perspective (POV) of each observer, which is all matter in the entire universe . The more observers (pixels), the greater the definition of reality as a whole.

The "Wholeness and the Implicate Order". That's David Bohm.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
From Write4U , post #939 , second paragraph ;
What happens if more than one conscious observer , makes a measurement of a physical system ?

The system collapses but only observable from the perspective of each observer. The more observers (pixels), the greater the definition of reality as a whole.

The "Wholeness and the Implicate Order". That's David Bohm.

Not the definition of reality .

But our understanding of reality . Which Evolves all the time , new information , hence new , more informed thinking , new ideas .

Reality ( Galaxies , Qusars , Stars , Planets , moons , etc ; periodic table ) , has nothing to do with us . Reality existed before US .

But we can create .

 

[Write4U]

Not the definition of reality .

But our understanding of reality .

Reality has nothing to do with us . Reality existed before US .

That's true. But you have no access to anyone else's quantum reality as experienced from their perspective (POV). You have only access to your own experience of that constantly collapsing and reforming pattern, a fluent cosmic river of interactive self-ordering mathematical quantum patterns, becoming "unfolded" in an Experiential (observable) format, which measurably appears to us as an experiential common denominator of reality and we called it "consciousness".

And in ORCH OR and other quantum theories of consciousness the microtubule is the single common denominator in all biological things, a organelle that self-organizes " into a pattern which can process and transport quantum changes along a networked series of about a trillion microtubules, designed to respond to quantum information. The idea is not woo by any means .
I am confident that we will figure this thing out. It is a question of sufficient pixels in the pattern which presents as a conscious ability to experience the changing patterns of reality. Quantum is not observable? That's lazy thinking.

We can already film photons in flight @ 10 trillion fps.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Not the definition of reality .

But our understanding of reality .

Reality has nothing to do with us . Reality existed before US .

That's true. But you have no access to anyone else's quantum reality as experienced from their perspective (POV). You have only access to your own experience of that constantly collapsing and reforming pattern, a fluent cosmic river of interactive self-ordering mathematical quantum patterns, becoming "unfolded" in an Experiential (observable) format, which measurably appears to us as reality.

Not true . A tree is a tree , water is water , nutrients are necessary , proteins and minerals .

All are consistent in form .

 

[Bells]

Then stay out of my face. I didn't start this idiotic bullshit. I am accused of interfering with other posters in their threads, but every time I post something in my thread you can come waltzing in and try to destroy me personally.

As a moderator why don't you heed your own rules. I don't call you names, that is not how I debate and I know that if I did, you would take the first opportunity to censor me.

You're acting like Trump; "I don't like your style you're fired". Not worthy of a science forum.

I asked you to support your claims.

Such as your claims that it is a fact that consciousness can be found in microtubules..

Or when you claimed that I kept "citing page #5", or that I called you names..

You are still to do so.

You keep bringing up my being a moderator, when the fact is if I post in this thread as a moderator, I would be issuing infractions to you for your failure to support your claims, your deliberate dishonesty in taking people's posts out of context, your deliberate trolling, and so on and so forth.

The irony is that you claim you aren't calling me names and in the same post you say I am like Trump.

You may have started the thread, but let me remind you that it is just that, a thread. NOT your personal blog.

Which means that when you post things on this site, people are allowed to question you and request that you support your claims.

 

[river]

Bells , your so full of BS .

 

[Write4U]

You may have started the thread, but let me remind you that it is just that, a thread. NOT your personal blog.

Then why do you throw me out of other people's threads by the mere mention of "microtubule"?
Can I finally get a straight answer from you to any of my questions . I just want to get on with some developing interesting discourse. Why do you want to spoil this positive development ?

 

[river]

Then why do you throw me out of other people's threads by the mere mention of "microtubule"?
Can I finally get a straight answer from you to any of my questions . I just want to get on with some developing interesting discourse. Why do you want to spoil this positive development ?

Write4U , highlighted , do so .

Move on . I'm curious what you have to say .

 

[Write4U]

Microtubules are pervasive in cells:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtubule and no role for them in the neural processing of the brain is acknowledged.

And you still maintain that narrow viewpoint?

 

[Write4U]

Not the definition of reality

Not in a linguistic sense. I meant the definition in detail as in a photograph or perhaps a holographic experience presented by the brain to itself. It's a self-referential system, making "best guesses" as to what it is experiencing in it's own relative sensory reality. The experience of the Doppler effect is unmistakable and unavoidably true for two observers at opposite POV even if the cause is known! The uncoming pitch is in actual reality measurable higher in physical properties that the receding measurable lower pitch. A natural quantum duality?

The moment both motorcycles pass a single observer between them, the doppler effect shifts riders, a quantum "bing" event. A moment of a conscious (experiential) sensory computational shift in the (any) observer, according to Penrose.....

 

[river]

Write4U

Post #942

↑
From Write4U , post #939 , second paragraph ;
What happens if more than one conscious observer , makes a measurement of a physical system ?

↑

The system collapses but only observable from the perspective of each observer. The more observers (pixels), the greater the definition of reality as a whole.

The "Wholeness and the Implicate Order". That's David Bohm.

Not the definition of reality .

But our understanding of reality . Which Evolves all the time , new information , hence new , more informed thinking , new ideas .

Reality ( Galaxies , Qusars , Stars , Planets , moons , etc ; periodic table ) , has nothing to do with us . Reality existed before US .

But we can create .

Through understanding our awareness evolves , therefore of course , our understanding of reality .

Obviously I disagree with David Bohm​

 

[Write4U]

I like David Bohm, but IMO any emergent collective awareness is specifically suited to bio-organic mechanics.

Bio-organic elements and compounds are by their inherent properties disposed to ready information sharing at the atomic level and evolving to the molecular level and up the ladder of physical complexity and information processing abilities, in synchronicity with sophistication with electro-chemical sensory experiential (observational) abilities .

The fusion of chromosome 2 in humans is the birth of homo sapiens and the demarcation point where man split from his ancestors and formed it's own branch with the flower that produces the fruits of potential for experiencing life. Self-awareness = Consciousness All equations are expressions of mathematical algorithms

A self-aware Descartes' brain in a vat would actually be able to visualize itself as being in a vat , hooked up to a computer. But the brain is only partly consciously aware. Most brain functions are autonomous and subconscious and perform only the role of keeping the body alive. Interoception is a limited but vital ability and mechanism of regulating the human/bacterial symbiosis that keeps the human biome alive and dynamic.

 

[river]

I like David Bohm

You may like him but he is wrong .

 

[Write4U]

Not true . A tree is a tree , water is water , nutrients are necessary , proteins and minerals .

All are consistent in form .

Noooo, they are not! Therein lies the difference..
The only consistent form in this list is the known elements that make up biological life on earth. The rest are physical expressions of common growth patterns in nature.

p.s. water does not always equal water . Water can also be a solid, yet have the exact same number of H2O molecules. It all depends on the pattern of the H2O which produces one state or the other. Ice is just H2O arranged in a very dense pattern. And ice is not wet!

Your description is a description of kinds, an assortment of species, and does not in any way address the dynamic parts that make up the shared common physical dynamical processing abilities in all dynamic living organisms.

One common denominator candidate is microtubules, trillions of them, a self-organizing nano-scale organelle making its appearance in almost every living thing, demonstrably associated with mitosis (cell-division) and regulating the whole process of electro-chemical sensory processing of all conscious and unconscious information processes throughout the body and the self-referential (memory) brain.

This presents a prima facie evidence of high a probability natural evolutionary functional product.

We got the extra chromosome and apparently the split of Homo Sapiens (intelligent man) from the other hominid families. This is demonstrably true as by evidenced skull and brain size and complexity between the Human brain and the brains of other Great Apes, even as these cousins might be much more massive and as strong as 4 adult men.

IMO, human chromosome # 2 holds the program and secret of human consciousness and microtubules processing (duplicating) of chromosomal information, the blue print of a brain pattern with an emergent consciousness.

If the brain is able to process information at quantum level (qubits) remains to be seen. The hypothesis has in no way been proven impossible. The difference is not in concept, but in the physical processes that produce the experience of self-awareness.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Not true . A tree is a tree , water is water , nutrients are necessary , proteins and minerals .

All are consistent in form .

Noooo, they are not! Therein lies the difference..
Your description is a description of a kind, a general species, and does not in any way address the dynamic parts that make up the shared common physical abilities in all dynamic living organisms.
One common denominator candidate is microtubules, trillions of them, a self-organizing nano-scale organelle, demonstrably associated with and regulating the whole process of electro-chemical sensory processing of all conscious and unconscious information processes in the brain

Space in the microtubules allows for intelligence to form .

 

[Write4U]

Space in the microtubules allows for intelligence to form .

I believe it is process that exhibits a combinatory richness of electro-chemical sensory and motor activities throughout the entire microtubule network of a trillion microtubular processors, which give rise to the entire organism experiencing an inflood of emotional chemistry which bring about different states of mind, patterns, recognition from memory...
Conscious awareness.....

 

[river]

New
↑
Space in the microtubules allows for intelligence to form .

I believe it is process that exhibits a combinatory richness of electro-chemical sensory and motor activities, which give rise to the entire organism experiencing an inflood of emotional chemistry which bring about different states of mind, patterns.......

I see .

Is feeding emotional then ?

 

[river]

All living beings take in energy . Eating and absorbing .

 

[paddoboy]

I see .

Is feeding emotional then ?

Sure!! Many individuals with this isolation lockdown are over eating and getting bloody fat!
Chocolate often fills a desire when depressed for example.

 

[Write4U]

I see .

Is feeding emotional then ?

Sure, hunger is an emotion, a warning that you are running low on energy sources. This warning may well be issued by the gut bacteria via "quorum sensing" and the issuance of warning type hormones causing the sensation of Hunger!

This is the self-referential part of self-awareness and a mental determination: "I am hungry, I need food".

p.s. Or I feel badly and something to eat will cheer me up (flood my system with endorphins).