Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

Years ago I read about the structure of a water droplet when they said molecules at the surface aligned as I recall perpendicular to the surface and the charge effectively pushed other limited matter to the center. The article did not say it but it occurred to me that the droplet had properties which were somewhat similar to an egg..I lost that link ( the curse of using a phone rather than a desk top) and, given you are well read ask if you have come across what I am talking about?
Alex

Perhaps you are talking about surface tension. Apparently the boundary creates a different molecular arrangement which causes a self-formation of a cellular pattern, a liquid shell.
I'll check it out and get back with you on this. .....

 

[Write4U]

Well, this looks pretty explanatory. Its all in the patterns that form by interior and exterior influences.
Water is a remarkable substance. It has to be one of the most versatile mediums in the Universe. And why not?
It is one of the simplest patterns in nature.

 

[Write4U]

And in furtherance of the role of microtubules.

 

[Write4U]

Adding to the library:
Microtubules Are Essential for Mitochondrial Dynamics–Fission, Fusion, and Motility–in Dictyostelium discoideum
Laken C. Woods,1 Gregory W. Berbusse,2 and Kari Naylor1,*

Abstract,
Mitochondrial function is dependent upon mitochondrial structure which is in turn dependent upon mitochondrial dynamics, including fission, fusion, and motility. Here we examined the relationship between mitochondrial dynamics and the cytoskeleton in Dictyostelium discoideum.

Using time-lapse analysis, we quantified mitochondrial fission, fusion, and motility in the presence of cytoskeleton disrupting pharmaceuticals and the absence of the potential mitochondria-cytoskeleton linker protein, CluA.

Our results indicate that microtubules are essential for mitochondrial movement, as well as fission and fusion; actin plays a less significant role, perhaps selecting the mitochondria for transport. We also suggest that CluA is not a linker protein but plays an unidentified role in mitochondrial fission and fusion. The significance of our work is to gain further insight into the role the cytoskeleton plays in mitochondrial dynamics and function.

By better understanding these processes we can better appreciate the underlying mitochondrial contributions to many neurological disorders characterized by altered mitochondrial dynamics, structure, and/or function.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4801864/

 

[Write4U]

A virus is a tiny infectious agent that reproduces inside the cells of living hosts. When infected, the host cell is forced to rapidly produce thousands of identical copies of the original virus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_viruses

IMO, microtubules may be responsible for viral mitosis. MT are responsible for human cell mitosis (cell division), and as viruses cannot make copies of themselves, they need a cellular mechanism in the host that will do the work for them. Microtubules are built for that very task.!! In every cell of our body.

p.s. see Alternative Theories for more info on Microtubules

 

[river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_viruses

IMO, microtubules may be responsible for viral mitosis. MT are responsible for human cell mitosis (cell division), and as viruses cannot make copies of themselves, they need a cellular mechanism in the host that will do the work for them. Microtubules are built for that very task.!! In every cell of our body.

p.s. see Alternative Theories for more info on Microtubules

So a single , one , of the virus could never exist .

 

[Write4U]

So a single , one , of the virus could never exist .

Correct, viruses cannot self-divide and can only use the host's ability for mitosis as their dividing mechanism. This is why they die outside a host. They are one of the oldest and purest parasitic organism in nature.

What is mitosis? | Facts | yourgenome.org

May 17, 2017 - Mitosis is a process where a single cell divides into two identical daughter cells (cell division). During mitosis one cell? divides once to form two identical cells. The major purpose of mitosis is for growth and to replace worn out cells.

www.yourgenome.org › facts › what-is-mitosis

Technically viruses are not alive because they cannot self-divide. They are quasi-living biochemical organisms. A perfect example of a quasi-alive abiogenetic organism!

Life: Quasi-Life ,
Virus.

The most familiar quasi-life form is the RNA fragment called a virus. This is a portion of genetic material from either RNA or DNA (but not both) with a minimal protein coat. The virus replicates itself by invading and taking over the translation mechanism in living cells.

Microtubules play a major role in mitosis.

Although they appropriate the machinery of living cells, not all viruses are dangerous. Some forms attack only bacteria, others select only plants, and others attack animals. Each virus selects one or more species, but never all. Flu epidemics and diseases such as AIDS have demonstrated that some viruses are able to jump from one species to another: from fowl or monkeys, for example, to humans.

Because they are genetically minimal, viruses can mutate rapidly and resist destruction. How and when viruses evolved is unknown, but since RNA does shed fragments of itself it is reasonable to assume that viruses developed in tandem with living cells. Viruses are found in the genomes of all creatures and also in fossils.

http://www.scienceforthepublic.org/things-to-know/life/life-quasi-life

 

[Write4U]

From your link.

It lacks needed components that cells have to reproduce. When a virus infects a cell, it marshals the cell's ribosomes, enzymes and much of the cellular machinery to replicate.

And what pray tell is that mitotic replication machinery? (drum roll).....microtubules!!.....

What Are the Main Function of Microtubules in the Cell?

Microtubules play an important role in cell division by contributing to the formation of the mitotic spindle, which plays a part in the migration of duplicated chromosomes during anaphase. ... The two poles of the spindle, made from microtubule
structures, help to segregate and separate duplicated chromosomes reliably.

https://sciencing.com/main-function-microtubules-cell-8552402.html

I am not satisfied with generalities such as "replication machinery". It begs the question what exactly is that machinery, no? If you had followed any of what I posted about microtubules, you would have known this and we could have had a good discussion on exactly how a virus manages to hijack microtubules for its own purposes. That would be clearly in your ball park and very pertinent to the OP.
Instead you dismiss the possibility out of hand , without giving at a second thought. It bemuses me, why?

 

[Write4U]

Continuing on the consciousness topic this is a very interesting demonstration how microtubules form and to the three wave frequency ranges they respond to.

 

[billvon]

Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Answer - still no.

 

[wegs]

Why is mainstream science critical/skeptical of this ''controversial'' theory?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm

 

[Seattle]

Why is mainstream science critical/skeptical of this ''controversial'' theory?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm

There is no such division as "mainstream science" and "non-mainstream science".

If the scientific method applies...it's just science. If it doesn't...it's not science.

 

[wegs]

Okay ^^ Why is science skeptical of the theory?

Why is consciousness such a controversial subject, to begin with?

 

[Seattle]

Okay ^^ Why is science skeptical of the theory?

Why is consciousness such a controversial subject, to begin with?

I think the only skepticism is lack of evidence isn't it?

 

[exchemist]

Why is mainstream science critical/skeptical of this ''controversial'' theory?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm

This was covered in post 5 (five) of this thread, on page 1. That was a year and half ago now.

We are now at post 773, on page 39, and no further evidence in favour of the hypothesis has been put forward. Penrose and Hameroff were indeed still championing it in 2014, but nobody is biting, because the evidence is just not there. It remains an entirely speculative hypothesis.

 

[Write4U]

Answer - still no.

You do not have the authority to dismiss the hypothesis. On what basis can you falsify the concept?

If a computer picture is a pattern formed by billions of pixels, why should billions of microtubule processors noy be able to generate a recognizable pattern inside the brain.

Consciousness is not a seperate ingredient of the brain. It is a product of the brain. Any other interpretation such as the dualistic view that consciousness requires an elan vital or soul is religion.

As Tegmark posited, instead of asking the hard question of what causes consciuosness in the brain, we can begin with the hard fact that the brain does cause consciousness.

This is undisputably true and allows us to examine the physical brain patterns which are causal to consciousness, rather than looking for an "special extra ingredient".

The only real debate is if consciousness involves quantum functions. There can be no debate that brains exhibit emergent consciousness and self-awareness depending on the evolution of size and sophistication in brain patterns.

There is a scientific biological mechanism that produces consciousness and ultimately an emergent experience of self-awareness in relation to one's environment.

Interoception does not require self-awarenes at all, it is an autonomous control mechanism, but is the real purely electro/chemical survival mechanism that keeps us alive.

 

[billvon]

Okay ^^ Why is science skeptical of the theory?

Because there is very little evidence of it.

Why is consciousness such a controversial subject, to begin with?

Because, in general, people can't even agree on a definition. It's like saying "love is caused by the the liver" - first you have to define love. Now, if you define it a very odd way (i.e. that feeling you get when you are healthy and in tune with your body) you could argue that it was, in part, caused by the liver. But again, that's not going to get much support from science with such loose definitions.

 

[wegs]

Because there is very little evidence of it.

Because, in general, people can't even agree on a definition. It's like saying "love is caused by the the liver" - first you have to define love. Now, if you define it a very odd way (i.e. that feeling you get when you are healthy and in tune with your body) you could argue that it was, in part, caused by the liver. But again, that's not going to get much support from science with such loose definitions.

That said, we all know love exists. We all know that consciousness exists. Maybe it would be fair to say that some things can’t be explained by science?

 

[billvon]

That said, we all know love exists. We all know that consciousness exists. Maybe it would be fair to say that some things can’t be explained by science?

Sure, and many things can't be. You can explain the origins (and biology) of lust and the evolutionary utility of love, but it's going to be very hard to define something scientifically that, at the end of the day, is a feeling someone has.

 

[wegs]

Sure, and many things can't be. You can explain the origins (and biology) of lust and the evolutionary utility of love, but it's going to be very hard to define something scientifically that, at the end of the day, is a feeling someone has.

/end thread