Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[river]

Does not the Brain at some point control the extent of the nervous system ?

 

[river]

In relation to vision;

Microtubule Imaging Reveals Cytoskeletal Deficit Predisposing the Retinal Ganglion Cell Axons to Atrophy in DBA/2J
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6218151/

For those that don't have , glaucoma ??

 

[Write4U]

For those that don't have , glaucoma ??

I am no expert, but apparently high pressure in the eye does somehow damage the microtubules in the optic nerve and which are instrumental in processing optical information.

Distortion of Axonal Cytoskeleton: An Early Sign of Glaucomatous Damage

Purpose.

Glaucoma damages the retinal nerve fiber layer (RNFL). The purpose of this study was to investigate the distribution of major cytoskeleton components, F-actin, microtubules (MTs), and neurofilaments (NFs), in the RNFL during the development of glaucoma.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109006/

 

[Write4U]

Does not the Brain at some point control the extent of the nervous system ?

To the best of my knowledge, no...., the brain depends on a healthy neural network.
Much like a computer is dependent on the wired network that moves the information to and from the central processor, the MTs inside the neural network are chemical constructs (tubular processors) and can undergo "catastrophic disintegration".

 

[river]

Consciousness is in every physical , material object(s) . Not with intellect , necessarily ; but with the fundamental goal of survival . Which takes the evolution of the intellect .

 

[river]

To the best of my knowledge, no...., the brain depends on a healthy neural network.
Much like a computer is dependent on the wired network that moves the information to and from the central processor, the MTs inside the neural network are chemical constructs (tubular processors) and can undergo "catastrophic disintegration".

Or is the brain stretching out into its environment ?

 

[Write4U]

Consciousness is in every physical , material object(s) . Not with intellect , necessarily ; but with the fundamental goal of survival . Which takes the evolution of the intellect .

This is a profound question.

I like to think that in non-sentient objects, response to external pressure it is more of a gross mathematical/physical process of cause and effect such as the formation of molecules from individual atoms or purely mathematical physical response to say collisions, but in organic objects this response system is often dependent on evolved
sensory information facilitated by Microtubules.

Take a paramecium, a single celled organism. It has cilia, little hairs attached to microtubules and a flagella, a tiny little motor driven by a microtubule which propels the paramecium.

When the paramecium bumps into an object, the cilia get disturbed by the kinetic force and force the paramecium to change course. Think of a Roomba vacuum cleaner. Still purely mechanically responsive, but showing signs of a proto sensory ability.

Now the organism acquires a photosensitive chemical patch purely by accident and over time establishes a conduit to the cellular microtubules, which are responsible for motion. Now the organism "learns" to respond to light and dark conditions and begins to be able to avoid obstacles without bumping into them. As the light sensitive patch evolves (by natural selection) into an eye and the neural connections with microtubules becomes more sophisticated the organisms develops a neural network (often associated with the cytoskeleton) and a few billion years later we have an octopus, a descendant of sea slugs, which has remarkable sensory abilities in near total darkness, with 8 small brains located in its tentacles, as well as a central brain which is capable of very sophisticated calculations.

One of the remarkable land organisms is the Slime mold a compound single celled organism, which forms a type of proto hive-mind, similar to the insect hive mind but still more primitive. This organism is capable of solving mazes and has a rudimentary sense of time, the beginning of a circadian rhythm, which regulates certain behaviors.

Next come the insects, which over time acquired very sophisticated hive minds and behaviors, millions of years before the mammals appeared on the scene.

Remember, most land animals have much better sensory equipment than humans. The human advantage is we have evolved a giant brain which allows for much greater and sophisticated information processing.

And there you have the evolution of sensory intellect in general and human intellect as the pinnacle of ability for information processing ability and purposefully (motivated) acting on that process.

This a very crude nut-shell narrative, but I'm confident that evolution of intellect followed a similar path as I inadequately described. IMO, the conceptual logic is sound.

 

[Write4U]

THE HUMAN MEMORY
BRAIN NEURONS & SYNAPSES
September 27, 2019

The average human brain has about 86 billion neurons(or nerve cells) and many more neuroglia (or glial cells) which serve to support and protect the neurons (although see the end of this page for more information on glial cells). Each neuron may be connected to up to 10,000 other neurons, passing signals to each other via as many as 1,000 trillion synaptic connections, equivalent by some estimates to a computer with a 1 trillion bit per second processor.

Estimates of the human brain’s memory capacity vary wildly from 1 to 1,000 terabytes (for comparison, the 19 million volumes in the US Library of Congress represents about 10 terabytes of data).

Information transmission within the brain, such as takes place during the processes of memory encoding and retrieval, is achieved using a combination of chemicals and electricity. It is a very complex process involving a variety of interrelated steps, but a quick overview can be given here.

A typical neuron possesses a soma (the bulbous cell body which contains the cell nucleus), dendrites (long, feathery filaments attached to the cell body in a complex branching “dendritic tree”) and a single axon (a special, extra-long, branched cellular filament, which maybe thousands of times the length of the soma).......more.

https://human-memory.net/brain-neurons-synapses/

 

[Write4U]

continuing...

Microtubules are cylindrical hexagonal lattice polymers of the protein tubulin, comprising 15 percent of total brain protein. Microtubules define neuronal architecture, regulate synapses, and are suggested to process information via interactive bit-like states of tubulin. But any semblance of a common code connecting microtubules to synaptic activity has been missing. Until now.

The standard experimental model for neuronal memory is long term potentiation (LTP) in which brief pre-synaptic excitation results in prolonged post-synaptic sensitivity. An essential player in LTP is the hexagonal enzyme calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II (CaMKII).

Upon pre-synaptic excitation, calcium ions entering post-synaptic neurons cause the snowflake-shaped CaMKII to transform, extending sets of 6 leg-like kinase domains above and below a central domain, the activated CaMKII resembling a double-sided insect. Each kinase domain can phosphorylate a substrate, and thus encode one bit of synaptic information. Ordered arrays of bits are termed bytes, and 6 kinase domains on one side of each CaMKII can thus phosphorylate and encode calcium-mediated synaptic inputs as 6-bit bytes. But where is the intra-neuronal substrate for memory encoding by CaMKII phosphorylation? Enter microtubules.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309103701.htm

 

[Write4U]

Quantum Physics in Consciousness Studies

Some QM mind theories suppose the possible involvement of specific molecules. A spectrum of ions and molecules has been suggested to operate in a quantum manner (Tuszinsky and Woolf 2010).

For instance QM theories have been based on micro-tubular proteins (Penrose 1989; Hameroff 2007), proteins involved in synaptic transmission (Beck and Eccles 1992; Beck 2001), including Ca ion-channels (Stapp 2009) and channel proteins instrumental in the initiation and propagation of action potentials (potassium-ion channels, Bernroider and Roy 2004.

There is also the hypothesis that synaptic transmission represents a typical (quantum) probability state that becomes critical for an all or none neuronal response (Beck and Eccles 1992; Beck 2001). Attributing non-linear and non-computable characteristics of consciousness,

Re: ORCH OR

Hameroff and Penrose, 2011, 2013, argue against mechanisms of all or none firing of axonal potentials (Beck and Eccles, 2003). They rather prefer the model of Davia (2010), proposing that consciousness is related to waves traveling in the brain as a uniting life principle on multiple scales. According to some QM mind theories (Woolf and Hameroff, 2001), tunneling was proposed to facilitate membrane/vesicle fusion in neural information processing at the synapse

https://www.academia.edu/28151558/Quantum_Physics_in_Consciousness_Studies

 

[Michael 345]

I don't care where consciousness is found

As long as it keeps doing this


Pinterest

 

[exchemist]

I don't care where consciousness is found

As long as it keeps doing this

View attachment 3143
Pinterest

Tnahks ofr shit!

 

[Write4U]

Continuing describing the role of microtubules in the origin of motility in living organisms .

 

[Write4U]

I don't care where consciousness is found

As long as it keeps doing this

View attachment 3143

Pinterest

A perfect example of what Anil Seth described as an example of heuristic "best guessing" by the brain and it's ability to make sense of seemingly random sensory perceptions.

A heuristic technique (/hjʊəˈrɪstɪk/; Ancient Greek: εὑρίσκω, "find" or "discover"), or a heuristic for short, is any approach to problem solving or self-discovery that employs a practical method that is not guaranteed to be optimal, perfect or rational, but which is nevertheless sufficient for reaching an immediate, short-term goal.

Where finding an optimal solution is impossible or impractical, heuristic methods can be used to speed up the process of finding a satisfactory solution. Heuristics can be mental shortcuts that ease the cognitive load of making a decision.[1]:94[2] Examples that employ heuristics include using trial and error, a rule of thumb, an educated guess, an intuitive judgment, a guesstimate, profiling, or common sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic

 

[Write4U]

Michael 345 said; You might enjoy this
https://www.toppr.com/ask/question/...ed-from-engulfed-prokaryotes-that-once-lived/

The chloroplast and mitochondria are likely to have evolved from engulfed prokaryotes that once lived as an independent organisms.The supporting evidence for this is that they both
I. Possess capability to synthesize their own proteins.
ll. Possess genetic material.
lll. Possess a lipid bilayer membrane.
lV. Possess characteristic ribosomes.

One fact pertinent to mitochondria;

Our results indicate that microtubules are essential for mitochondrial movement, as well as fission and fusion; actin plays a less significant role, perhaps selecting the mitochondria for transport. We also suggest that CluA is not a linker protein but plays an unidentified role in mitochondrial fission and fusion.

The significance of our work is to gain further insight into the role the cytoskeleton plays in mitochondrial dynamics and function. By better understanding these processes we can better appreciate the underlying mitochondrial contributions to many neurological disorders characterized by altered mitochondrial dynamics, structure, and/or function.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4801864/

 

[Write4U]

Re chloroplast;

Introduction
It is important to understand as much as possible about cell transport systems such as that of kinesins on microtubules. Without these forms of transport it would be very difficult or impossible for a cell to function normally.

Much more research on kinesins and microtubules has yet to be done and discovered. This project aims to make a dent in that research by trying to see the importance of the specific kinesins 4II and 7I in the chloroplast avoidance response.

Chloroplast responses to light Chloroplasts are organelles found only in plant cells that are vital to the survival of the plant. Chloroplasts’ main purpose is to conduct photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is the process of converting sunlight into energy for the plant. Chloroplasts perform this function by absorbing light photons using the pigments chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b (Chloroplast, 2014). The light is then converted to energy in the form of ATP and NADPH through the Calvin Benson Cycle so that the plant cell can produce sugars needed for metabolism (Alberts et al., 2002).

https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/...163018/unrestricted/MQP_Paper_Final_AK_VW.pdf

 

[Write4U]

Continuing .....

 

[Write4U]

Cytoskeletal Signaling: Is Memory Encoded in Microtubule Lattices by CaMKII Phosphorylation?

Introduction

This is supported by the paradigm of ‘long-term potentiation’ (LTP) in which repetitive pre-synaptic stimulation increases post-synaptic sensitivity and strengthens synapses (e.g. the adage “neurons that fire together, wire together”). LTP is supported experimentally in vitro [2], [3], and may occur over many brain regions [4] as a common feature of excitatory synapses [5].

[6]. Generally, however, synaptic plasticity is viewed in terms of changes in function, location and/or number of post-synaptic receptors and ion channels. However, synaptic receptors and channel proteins are transient, being synthesized and degraded in the protein lifecycle, and yet memories can last lifetimes. Therefore, information pertinent to memory must be stored elsewhere, yet remain able to regulate synaptic plasticity.

[7], shafts and neuronal cell body. Within dendritic spines, inflow of Ca2+ results in activation of multiple enzymes including protein kinase A [8], protein kinase C [9] and Ca2+-calmodulin kinase II (CaMKII) [10]. These enzymes, in turn, interact with (e.g. by phosphorylating) various intra-neuronal molecules, presumably for storage and processing of synaptic information. These CaMKII-phosphorylated protein structures must then, in some as-yet-unknown way, encode memory and regulate synaptic plasticity.

Conclusion

We demonstrate a feasible and robust mechanism for encoding synaptic information into structural and energetic changes of microtubule (MT) lattices by calcium-activated CaMKII phosphorylation. We suggest such encoded information engages in ongoing MT information processes supporting cognition and behavior, possibly by generating scale-free interference patterns via reaction-diffusion or other mechanisms.

As MTs and CaMKII are widely distributed in eukaryotic cells, the hexagonal bytes and trytes suggested here may reflect a real-time biomolecular information code akin to the genetic code.

We address information processing in cytoskeletal MTs, polymers of the protein ‘tubulin’, in both A-lattice and B-lattice configurations. Under proper conditions tubulin self-assembles into MTs, cylindrical hexagonal lattices, which directly participate in cell organization. Sherrington in 1951 [16] first proposed the cytoskeleton might serve as a cellular ‘nervous system’, and others have suggested microtubule-based information processing, e.g. with individual tubulins representing bit-like information states [18], [19], [56].

For example MTs have been modeled as von Neumann-type cellular/molecular automata (‘microtubule automata’) in which tubulin subunits interact with neighbor tubulin states by rules based on dipole coupling strengths [50], [61]. In such proposed microtubule automata, tubulin states interact and update coherently at discrete time steps attributed to theorized [62] or experimentally-observed coherent MT resonances, e.g. in the low megahertz range [53], potentially resulting in millions of synchronized updates per second

https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1002421

 

[Write4U]

== Is each neuron a quantum computer? ==
The recent discovery of quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons appears to corroborate claims that consciousness derives from deeper-level, finer-scale activities inside brain neurons.
The eminent mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose in the 1990s suggested that quantum vibrational computations in microtubules were “orchestrated” (“Orch”) by synaptic inputs and memory stored in microtubules. They may be the seat of stored information that neurons (and glia exchanges) intermediate.
Moreover, in a new development it is thought that Microtubule quantum vibrations (e.g. in the megahertz frequency range) appear to interfere and produce much slower EEG “beat frequencies.”
In Consciousness in the universe: A review of the 'Orch OR' theory, Penrose and Hameroff suggest, “Consciousness depends on anharmonic vibrations of microtubules inside neurons, similar to certain kinds of Indian music, but unlike Western music, which is harmonic."

How cool and weird! Only I am less interested in the mystical implications about roots of consciousness than whether this nails in "intracellular computing" as a major part of brain function.

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-latest-on-time-travel-ironic-title.html

 

[river]

== Is each neuron a quantum computer? ==
The recent discovery of quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons appears to corroborate claims that consciousness derives from deeper-level, finer-scale activities inside brain neurons.
The eminent mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose in the 1990s suggested that quantum vibrational computations in microtubules were “orchestrated” (“Orch”) by synaptic inputs and memory stored in microtubules. They may be the seat of stored information that neurons (and glia exchanges) intermediate.
Moreover, in a new development it is thought that Microtubule quantum vibrations (e.g. in the megahertz frequency range) appear to interfere and produce much slower EEG “beat frequencies.”
In Consciousness in the universe: A review of the 'Orch OR' theory, Penrose and Hameroff suggest, “Consciousness depends on anharmonic vibrations of microtubules inside neurons, similar to certain kinds of Indian music, but unlike Western music, which is harmonic."

How cool and weird! Only I am less interested in the mystical implications about roots of consciousness than whether this nails in "intracellular computing" as a major part of brain function.

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-latest-on-time-travel-ironic-title.html

Intracellular thinking . Life thinks .