Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[river]

In the field of neuromorphic engineering, researchers study computing techniques that could someday mimic human cognition.

For example .

 

[Write4U]

Mimic .

For example .

GPT3
You don't need to copy a brain. You just need to copy what a brain does.
And that's what we are studying today. Not the "hard question", but the "hard facts".

 

[river]

GPT3
You don't need to copy a brain. You just need to copy what a brain does.
And that's what we are studying today. Not the "hard question", but the "hard facts".

Highlighted

What "hard facts " are you referring to ?

 

[Write4U]

Highlighted

What "hard facts " are you referring to ?

What we know about the human thought processes.
The brain is a data processor and we know a lot about how it processes data. We don't know everything , but we will.

Neuroscience (or neurobiology) is the scientific study of the nervous system.

Drawing by Santiago Ramón y Cajal (1899) of neurons in the pigeon cerebellum

Proposed organization of motor-semantic neural circuits for action language comprehension. Adapted from Shebani et al. (2013)

Neuroscience (or neurobiology) is the scientific study of the nervous system.[1] It is a multidisciplinary science that combines physiology, anatomy, molecular biology, developmental biology, cytology, computer science and mathematical modeling to understand the fundamental and emergent properties of neurons and neural circuits.[2][3][4][5][6] The understanding of the biological basis of learning, memory, behavior, perception, and consciousness has been described by Eric Kandel as the "ultimate challenge" of the biological sciences.[7]

The scope of neuroscience has broadened over time to include different approaches used to study the nervous system at different scales and the techniques used by neuroscientists have expanded enormously, from molecular and cellular studies of individual neurons to imaging of sensory, motor and cognitive tasks in the brain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience#

 

[river]

What we know about the human thought processes.
The brain is a data processor and we know a lot about how it processes data. We don't know everything , but we will.

Neuroscience (or neurobiology) is the scientific study of the nervous system.

Drawing by Santiago Ramón y Cajal (1899) of neurons in the pigeon cerebellum

Proposed organization of motor-semantic neural circuits for action language comprehension. Adapted from Shebani et al. (2013)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience#

The Human Brain also has psychic abilities as well .

 

[Write4U]

The Human Brain also has psychic abilities as well .

For an AI that won't be a problem. They'll run the internet via WiFi.....

 

[river]

river said: ↑
The Human Brain also has psychic abilities as well .

For an AI that won't be a problem. They'll run the internet via WiFi.....

Gad your old .

 

[Write4U]

Gad your old .

LOL, its true, but what made you say that?

I didn't challenge that statement in #1985, because it is demonstrably not true.

But WiFi (wireless communication) is a modern technology and very well suited to AI. GPT3 uses the internet as its "memory bank" against which to deconstruct and compare incoming data and acquire sentient "understanding".

 

[Write4U]

What is GPT-3 and why is it so powerful?

moved to Technology__Do you think that AI will ever feel emotions

 

[Write4U]

The Human Brain also has psychic abilities as well .

No, IMO the human brain has empathic abilities, which allows for parallel thoughts to emerge, which would be quite natural.

If you wince when watching someone hurt themselves, you don't feel their pain, but your brain causes the production of the same chemical "emotional" reactions as the person who does feel the pain.

Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position.[1] Definitions of empathy encompass a broad range of emotional states. Types of empathy include cognitive empathy, emotional (or affective) empathy, somatic, and spiritual empathy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

None of these are true "psychic" abilities, but of course have given rise to to commerce of "super natural" abilities and cult behavior.

Psychic power is an ability to perceive, that which is beyond the normal human senses and through extrasensory perception. Humans have five senses: sight, smell, taste, sound, and touch. Although some call psychic abilities the sixth sense, people with psychic abilities generally have over-exaggerated human senses.

However

An empath is a person with the special gift of perceiving the emotions and feelings of other people as though they were their own without even trying. They are naturally tuned in to the energies floating around them. If an empath walks into a room and sits next to a person who's quietly mourning, the empath will pick up on the sorrow and experience it as though it were their own. An empath who lacks awareness of their gift can be deeply conflicted, as they cannot tell apart their own feelings from those of others

https://www.amazon.com/Empath-Psychic-Abilities-Meditations-clairvoyance/dp/1801115931

If you wish to experience a moment of true empathy, listen to this short musical exchange of two musical geniuses.
The moment when the harmonica enters is sheer magic! Listen to this with earphones!

 

[river]

↑

The Human Brain also has psychic abilities as well .

No, IMO the human brain has empathic abilities, which allows for parallel thoughts to emerge, which would be quite natural.

And beyond this ? These empathic abilities is what ?

If you wince when watching someone hurt themselves, you don't feel their pain, but your brain causes the production of the same chemical "emotional" reactions as the person who does feel the pain.

You understand the damage the cut has made and/or could .

 

[Write4U]

↑ And beyond this ? These empathic abilities is what ?

It is proof that brains do have specific functions in common and can be identified by frequency. They found that aside from other hominids, macaque monkeys already have empathic abilities and exihibit chemical responses while watching someone else involved in some activity.

You understand the damage the cut has made and/or could .

It goes deeper than that, your brain responds "as if" it is experiencing the same mishap. The more considered sympathetic response comes later.

Empathy is a function of the mirror neural network and is basically a fight or flight response survival response. It allows large groups to behave "as one" in avoiding potential threats.

This is how entire fish schools can instantly change direction away from a threat. Or a herd of plains animals instantly change into a stampede mode. It is the groan of crowd's disappointment when the receiver drops the football. It is the home crowd as the 12 man on the field.

Mirror neuron
This article needs to be updated. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (April 2020)

Note the role of microtubules in the transportation of sensory date and the reactive motor response.

A mirror neuron is a

neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another.[1][2][3] Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in human[4] and primate species,[5] and birds.

Some motor areas in the human cortex. The supplementary motor area is shown in pink. Image by: Paskari

In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex, the supplementary motor area, the primary somatosensory cortex, and the inferior parietal cortex.[7]

The function of the mirror system in humans is a subject of much speculation. Birds have been shown to have imitative resonance behaviors and neurological evidence suggests the presence of some form of mirroring system.[5][8]

To date, no widely accepted neural or computational models have been put forward to describe how mirror neuron activity supports cognitive functions.[9][10][11] The subject of mirror neurons continues to generate intense debate. In 2014, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B published a special issue entirely devoted to mirror neuron research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

 

[river]

It is proof that brains do have specific functions in common and can be identified by frequency. They found that aside from other hominids, macaque monkeys already have empathic abilities and exihibit chemical responses while watching someone else involved in some activity.
It goes deeper than that, your brain responds "as if" it is experiencing the same mishap. The more considered sympathetic response comes later.

Empathy is a function of the mirror neural network and is basically a fight or flight response survival response. It allows large groups to behave "as one" in avoiding potential threats.

This is how entire fish schools can instantly change direction away from a threat. Or a herd of plains animals instantly change into a stampede mode. It is the groan of crowd's disappointment when the receiver drops the football. It is the home crowd as the 12 man on the field.

Mirror neuron
This article needs to be updated. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (April 2020)

Note the role of microtubules in the transportation of sensory date and the reactive motor response.

Some motor areas in the human cortex. The supplementary motor area is shown in pink. Image by: Paskari
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

And the Cerebellum importance to motor refinement of the initial movement .

 

[Write4U]

And the Cerebellum importance to motor refinement of the initial movement .

That is an autonomous interoceptive function. Motor response actions are purely mechanical . You don't know that when you walk you are in a controlled forward fall. The motor function is purely mechanical. Only when you are very young or very old do you need to pay attention to walking without falling.

This would suggest that at least a few billion microtubules are functional regardless whether we are conscious or not. Sleepwalkers are practically unconscious and act purely on NT control.

Abstract

In terms of medical science and legal responsibility, the sleep disorder category of parasomnias, chiefly REM sleep behavior disorder and somnambulism, pose an enigmatic dilemma. During an episode of parasomnia, individuals are neither awake nor aware, but their actions appear conscious. As these actions move beyond the innocuous, such as eating and blurting out embarrassing information, and enter the realm of rape and homicide, their degree of importance and relevance increases exponentially. Parasomnias that result in illegal activity, particularly violence, are puzzling phenomena for medicine and the law.

....more

Although a parasomniac’s complete lack of consciousness warrants acquittal from criminal liability, it does not exclude responsibility for subjecting oneself to exacerbating factors that result in these violent parasomnias. Individuals should be held accountable if they could be expected to control these factors. In addition, they should undergo appropriate treatment and management in order to prevent future parasomnia behaviors. Establishing a legal defense for parasomnia will prove difficult due to the strong potential for malingering, so specific criteria will be outlined in order to distinguish between true and fraudulent claims of crimes committed during parasomniac states.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4506454/#

This is one of the "hard facts" Tegmark spoke about and was confirmed by Hameroff and Seth.

 

[river]

That is an autonomous interoceptive function. Motor response actions are purely mechanical . You don't know that when you walk you are in a controlled forward fall. The motor function is purely mechanical. Only when you are very young or very old do you need to pay attention to walking without falling.

This would suggest that at least a few billion microtubules are functional regardless whether we are conscious or not.

This is one of the "hard facts" Tegmark spoke about and was confirmed by Hameroff.

Where is the nervous system here ?

 

[Write4U]

Where is the nervous system here ?

It's everywhere in the body.

An average human body has 85 billions neurons, trillions of microtubules inside these neurons, and 250 trillion synapses in the brain alone. That's the human nervous system.

Consider that every living eukaryotic organism has a neural system of some sort, it then becomes clear that the neural system is the homeostatic mechanism that keeps us all alive conscious or not, and may well be the foundation of an emergent sentient intelligence.

Human are not unique, we do not possess the most advanced neural system, we possess the most advanced brain, that is the only thing that sets us apart from all other living things in nature.

 

[river]

It's everywhere in the body.

An average human body has 85 billions neurons, trillions of microtubules inside these neurons, and 250 trillion synapses in the brain alone. That's the human nervous system.

Consider that every living eukaryotic organism has a neural system of some sort, it then becomes clear that the neural system is the homeostatic mechanism that keeps us all alive conscious or not, and may well be the foundation of an emergent sentient intelligence.

Human are not unique, we do not possess the most advanced neural system, we possess the most advanced brain, that is the only thing that sets us apart from all other living things in nature.

What advanced this Brain to be at this point , advanced .

 

[Write4U]

What advanced this Brain to be at this point , advanced .

Well, GPT3 has 175 billion neurons and its developers say that they haven't touched the ceiling yet. The problem is in the networking of such enormous numbers.

By contrast the human brain has only 85 billion neurons, but 250 trillion synapses, due to the treelike structure of each neuron, which just grow as necessary.

 

[Write4U]

Just to clarify to the casual reader my position on the importance of "microtubules" in the neural network of the body as well as the brain.

In spite of the knee-jerk reaction by a person who apparently has never read a word about the role microtubules play in the existence of Eukaryotic life itself.

This little abstract may be a reminder of the state of research pertaining to MT.

Bundles of Brain Microtubules Generate Electrical Oscillations

Abstract

Microtubules (MTs) are long cylindrical structures of the cytoskeleton that control cell division, intracellular transport, and the shape of cells. MTs also form bundles, which are particularly prominent in neurons, where they help define axons and dendrites. MTs are bio-electrochemical transistors that form nonlinear electrical transmission lines. However, the electrical properties of most MT structures remain largely unknown.

Here we show that bundles of brain MTs spontaneously generate electrical oscillations and bursts of electrical activity similar to action potentials. Under intracellular-like conditions, voltage-clamped MT bundles displayed electrical oscillations with a prominent fundamental frequency at 39 Hz that progressed through various periodic regimes. The electrical oscillations represented, in average, a 258% change in the ionic conductance of the MT structures.

Interestingly, voltage-clamped membrane-permeabilized neurites of cultured mouse hippocampal neurons were also capable of both, generating electrical oscillations, and conducting the electrical signals along the length of the structure. Our findings indicate that electrical oscillations are an intrinsic property of brain MT bundles, which may have important implications in the control of various neuronal functions, including the gating and regulation of cytoskeleton-regulated excitable ion channels and electrical activity that may aid and extend to higher brain functions such as memory and consciousness.

.......more
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30453-2#

In all the derisive comments I have not heard one single word that falsifies this scientific evaluation by serious researchers which have not been scientifically resolved. No fatal flaws in the hypothesis yet.......it's a good thing!

This research is alive and well and continues to unlock the role of microtubules in the transmission of data throughout the body and especially in the brain.

Anyone calling this buffoonery may want to reexamine his/her position, else they might end up as the buffoon.

 

[Write4U]

Nature Portfolio

Microtubules

Microtubules are cylindrical polymers composed of alpha and beta tubulin. They are a major component of the cytoskeleton and mediate crucial cellular functions including formation of the mitotic spindle that segregates chromosomes during cell division and intracellular trafficking.

Latest Research and Reviews

• Reviews | 22 June 2021
  

....... much more.....

https://www.nature.com/subjects/microtubules