Is belief in a god just self-delusion?

[(Q)]

I never said impact, I simply said that we [Humans] are not capable of sensing that which is supernatural, therefore we can not make any sort of claim as to whether it exists or not.

Yet, theists will go on and on and on about the existence of their gods. They may in fact bet their lives on it, or yours.

Also, that is partly what I am saying! Theists and atheists alike cannot say there is no God or that there is a God, because it is impossible to know! The concept of God is BEYOND our physical universe, unlike saying the thing you said about mars.

NO! Strictly speaking, theists cannot say there is a god, based entirely on YOUR logic.

Do you see the hypocrisy of it all?

 

[Norsefire]

Yet, theists will go on and on and on about the existence of their gods. They may in fact bet their lives on it, or yours.

That would be a belief.

NO! Strictly speaking, theists cannot say there is a god, based entirely on YOUR logic.

Do you see the hypocrisy of it all?

I know........that is what I am saying, nobody on Earth knows of anything beyond what they can sense, so it would be unwise to make assumptions; until we die, there's no way to know.

 

[Norsefire]

I think the concept is entirely implausable. Why? Because the question at the bottom of any such idea is always "who or what created the creator?". This is an infinite form of begging the question. It is entirely plausible that the universe is exactly what we percieve it to be - a purely natural occurance. Possibly one in an infinity of such occurrancs. To posit an intelligence as the source of such a thing is no more plausible than positing hyper-intelligent bunnies as the bringers of baskets of chocolate eggs (and even more disturbingly, chocolate representations of themselves).

No. All gods are, when you blow away the thin smoke of human fear, simple projections of our psyches on a cold and completely indifferent cosmos.

True, but the concept of natural occurances is no less ridiculous than the concept of intelligent creation.

Besides, I've explained to you already, nobody can know if there is any greater intelligence beyond what we can perceive.

 

[Norsefire]

Norsefire


Kindly provide one tiny bit of realistic honest factual proof that god exists... just one...

________


Would you kindly explain the physics of the "water into wine" incident...

The "water into wine" occurance depends on the existence of God: therefore, if it actually did happen, God is real.

Now, I am neither saying it did nor that it didn't; I wasn't alive at the time, so I won't make assumptions.


And as for "proof"............again, do you not understand? There are two issues with this

1) Likewise as a theist cannot provide proof for the existence of God, an atheist cannot disprove it no matter what

2) Keep in mind the concept of God involves a supernatural force, and therefore would be impossible to prove (or disprove) in our natural, physical, world.

 

[(Q)]

That would be a belief.

A belief we could all do without, as history would attest.

I know........that is what I am saying, nobody on Earth knows of anything beyond what they can sense, so it would be unwise to make assumptions; until we die, there's no way to know.

Yes, so let's place all those silly ideals of gods firmly on the shelf of myths and move on with what's really important to mankind.

 

[Norsefire]

A belief we could all do without, as history would attest.

Are you sure? Again, this all depends on if there is a God.

Besides, religion has provided much for the growth and expansion of society, as well as massive effects upon it. Without it, we would be like the cavemen still, in terms of cultural development.

Yes, so let's place all those silly ideals of gods firmly on the shelf of myths and move on with what's really important to mankind.

But you do not know if they are myths; I mean, certainly if you go into specifics and all these stories and nonsense and books, yes, but as for the core concept itself (an intelligent entity beyond Human perception), I see nothing ridiculous about that concept.

And what is important to mankind? I've already explained that I feel a decline in any form of faith would lead to a money-obsessed form (as is being demonstrated now) as well as a lack of any sense of morality, tradition, duty, and honor


Not that faith is necessary to posess those things, but it regulates them, and without it they can all go down the drain.

No, a moderate form of faith enhances society; definetely much more so than no faith whatsoever, as if you look around, many things (including holidays, traditions, celebrations, feasts, national and governmental aspects, and even the Calendar!) all trace back to faith.

 

[(Q)]

Are you sure? Again, this all depends on if there is a God.

Besides, religion has provided much for the growth and expansion of society, as well as massive effects upon it. Without it, we would be like the cavemen still, in terms of cultural development.

That is intellectual dishonesty and you know it.

But you do not know if they are myths; I mean, certainly if you go into specifics and all these stories and nonsense and books, yes, but as for the core concept itself (an intelligent entity beyond Human perception), I see nothing ridiculous about that concept.

Then, you are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

And what is important to mankind? I've already explained that I feel a decline in any form of faith would lead to a money-obsessed form (as is being demonstrated now) as well as a lack of any sense of morality, tradition, duty, and honor

Not that faith is necessary to posess those things, but it regulates them, and without it they can all go down the drain.

Again, complete intellectual dishonesty.

No, a moderate form of faith enhances society; definetely much more so than no faith whatsoever, as if you look around, many things (including holidays, traditions, celebrations, feasts, national and governmental aspects, and even the Calendar!) all trace back to faith.

So what? Is your support for the fantastic and mystical the fact that societies celebrate holidays that support the fantastic and mystical?

 

[cosmicbrat]

The "water into wine" occurance depends on the existence of God: therefore, if it actually did happen, God is real.

Now, I am neither saying it did nor that it didn't; I wasn't alive at the time, so I won't make assumptions.


And as for "proof"............again, do you not understand? There are two issues with this

1) Likewise as a theist cannot provide proof for the existence of God, an atheist cannot disprove it no matter what

2) Keep in mind the concept of God involves a supernatural force, and therefore would be impossible to prove (or disprove) in our natural, physical, world.

Then how is it that your god supposedly can answer physical prayers in the physical..? Why do you pray?..


Picture this.. A fag party a couple thou years ago... The host, has his cuddle-buds bring out a prime jug of wine, that his scroungers managed to rob from a wealthy carpet dealer's home... In the jug, a ladle of water is carefully suspended... The party trick is to pour out a glass of water, then do an "oogabooga-alakazam" over the jug, and pull out a fine ladle of better wine than the first jug... The average mindless drunk would see the trick as magic, and that's how he would tell his story...

 

[cosmicbrat]

Do you pray?..

I know not "pray"..? How does prayer work..?
I understand that one establishes a subservient posture, then recites little poems, generally without any attitude nor clue as to what they are doing...
What are ones focuses and directives when praying..?

This scientist wants to understand the values of prayer, to determine if praying holds any value.. what's prayer's physical and metaphysical properties, in order that I may determine that the "Bible Path", that a billion people are on, is everything Life can be, and is for me..?

What is the physics of a successful prayer compared to that of a non-successful prayer..?
What makes a prayer successful..?
How does one know the prayer is doing something..?
Why do you pray..?

I think the praying world needs to be seriously awakened to raw passion and pure love within...
Maybe people need be forced to let love out of the box...
Maybe people need be taught to love all life, or teach them how to die...
Me thinks only UnLife can hate anything in Life.. therefore hate is probably essentially only varying degrees of death and hell...
Maybe Christians who share any hate are essentially sharing their proverbial hell..?
Maybe Christians are actually building their great proverbial hell on earth, to teach us a lesson that their belief system holds some validity, and to punish nonbelievers for not believing and not tithing, so a progressive perpetual groups of fags can live the luxury life at the expense of the peasant's life support..?

It seems that only those who claim to be Christians are the ones who share hate with those who don't believe in their belief structure... like in how today the Americans are bombing people who refuse to accept Christianity, whilst they embrace those who do... It sure does seem that America has rebirthed the Inquisition, and is using it the same way the Spanish used their inquisition against the innocent peoples of South America, when they war slaughtered all non-believers to their Christian god's love, and stole their gold, and molested their suddenly parentless children... The only difference is that America is after their oil and dope, not their gold... America's Christianity Inquisition has already destroyed two ancient human cultures right in the middle of Arabia.. and they have their Christian sights set on Iran, South Korea, and Pakistan... Three more ancient cultures to destroy for god and oil...

Actually it seems that America is in process of sending all life on this planet to their great Christian heaven, by killing everything as fast as possible in pushing for a great nuclear war, killing everybody all at once, so their great proverbial heaven fantasy will be full of life...

Right now, Christianity's Inquisition is literally devouring the whole world's quality of life to fund its Inquisitor wars against Innocents...

Thing is Christianity has made living life on earth into living in hell on earth, in trying to fulfill prophesy... Thing is those prophesies were warnings of doom, of things not to do.. not a road map of what to do... Me thinks Christianity is insanity, as in "ChristInsanity" "God Fever".. similar, and related to, the mental disease, "Gold Fever"...

 

[Norsefire]

Prayer, and faith overall, has its own fair share of benefits, but those are mental benefits not physical benefits; for instance, it can bring hope, happiness, and confidence and strength, via prayer, even if it doesn't actually work.

 

[redwards]

Prayer, and faith overall, has its own fair share of benefits, but those are mental benefits not physical benefits; for instance, it can bring hope, happiness, and confidence and strength, via prayer, even if it doesn't actually work.

To paraphrase: you can do nothing and feel like you're helping. Bravo.

Let me know how I can actually help, and I'm all ears.

 

[(Q)]

Prayer, and faith overall, has its own fair share of benefits, but those are mental benefits not physical benefits; for instance, it can bring hope, happiness, and confidence and strength, via prayer, even if it doesn't actually work.

As a mental 'benefit,' one can also experience despair, sadness, diffidence and weakness, when praying results in bugger all.

 

[S.A.M.]

Saves on fees to the therapist and probably cuts down on poor impulse control and substance abuse.

 

[superluminal]

But you do not know if they are myths; I mean, certainly if you go into specifics and all these stories and nonsense and books, yes, but as for the core concept itself (an intelligent entity beyond Human perception), I see nothing ridiculous about that concept.

Neither is the concept of a galaxy-wide advanced civilization of intelligent plasma clouds. You see the point? You can propose any fucking concept you want. Only an idiot would put so much stock in something with so little to back it up.

 

[cosmicbrat]

Prayer, and faith overall, has its own fair share of benefits, but those are mental benefits not physical benefits; for instance, it can bring hope, happiness, and confidence and strength, via prayer, even if it doesn't actually work.

"Life's magic", better known as "Sorcery" Does actually work...
Sorcery needs no ceremonies, nor prayers, nor anything but Love for all life...

Religion took its dogmas from sorcery, but took only the superficial descriptions of the parts of sorcery which are benign and non-threatening like religious mashed potatoe...
I.E.: I am able to employ basic sorcery to do hands-on healings, which heals my patient in 1.28 seconds...
With slightly advanced sorcery I am able to employ six distinct layered focuses, to hypnotize seawater, to make a square-mile of turbulent ocean be as calm as glass is smooth for as long as the six focuses are maintained...
For six years I've been searching for a forum worthy of my disclosing this formula to quiet seawater.. knowing it would literally put that forum the map...
I figure one in a thousand could do it.. but would mass abuse of the novelty screw-up the tides..? But maybe the tides do need screwing-up..?

Sorcery is Life...

Religion's preached glories start only after death... Religion teaches that death is better than life... That's insane... Now days religion has suicide bombers believing they are doing god's murdering... Religion is death... Sorcery is Life...

 

[cosmicbrat]

Originally Posted by Norsefire
"I never said impact, I simply said that we [Humans] are not capable of sensing that which is supernatural, therefore we can not make any sort of claim as to whether it exists or not."



Ohh but we are capable of sensing that which is deemed "supernatural" by those who are unable to access these levels of thought processing...

Religions condition kids to get migraines when they attempt to process thought using more than the permitted 7% mind usage... At 8% mind usage or employment, the Christian's cerebral nerve plumbing constricts, causing a painful headache, which pills can't alleviate... is why Christians can't fathom sorcery and supernatural... Their religion doesn't want them to see the lies and evils in religion... That would lose the religion some of its tithers... It's all about money... Sorcery is all about love, and sorcery is all free...

 

[Norsefire]

Neither is the concept of a galaxy-wide advanced civilization of intelligent plasma clouds. You see the point? You can propose any fucking concept you want. Only an idiot would put so much stock in something with so little to back it up.

That's something described by what we know, something within our universe, something we are familiar with; God, the concept of a superior intelligence, is infinitely larger than we can comprehend, it is impossible IN ANY WAY to disprove or prove it.

 

[redwards]

"Life's magic", better known as "Sorcery" Does actually work...
Sorcery needs no ceremonies, nor prayers, nor anything but Love for all life...

Religion took its dogmas from sorcery, but took only the superficial descriptions of the parts of sorcery which are benign and non-threatening like religious mashed potatoe...
I.E.: I am able to employ basic sorcery to do hands-on healings, which heals my patient in 1.28 seconds...
With slightly advanced sorcery I am able to employ six distinct layered focuses, to hypnotize seawater, to make a square-mile of turbulent ocean be as calm as glass is smooth for as long as the six focuses are maintained...
For six years I've been searching for a forum worthy of my disclosing this formula to quiet seawater.. knowing it would literally put that forum the map...
I figure one in a thousand could do it.. but would mass abuse of the novelty screw-up the tides..? But maybe the tides do need screwing-up..?

Sorcery is Life...

Religion's preached glories start only after death... Religion teaches that death is better than life... That's insane... Now days religion has suicide bombers believing they are doing god's murdering... Religion is death... Sorcery is Life...

:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

 

[superluminal]

That's something described by what we know, something within our universe, something we are familiar with; God, the concept of a superior intelligence, is infinitely larger than we can comprehend, it is impossible IN ANY WAY to disprove or prove it.

Oh... my... god.

That's just plain infuriating.

 

[Cris]

Norsefire,

God, the concept of a superior intelligence, is infinitely larger than we can comprehend, it is impossible IN ANY WAY to disprove or prove it.

You would think though that something so vast, all encompassing, and so all powerful, would have left just a tiny clue that it actually existed, or more importantly that it needed to exist.

There is nothing to support either case.