Is Allah...

[mike47]

Muhammad was an ARAB and not a Jew .
Muslims believe in both Moses and Jesus as prophets .
The Jews do not believe in Jesus as he came after Moses .
The Jews do not believe in Muhammad as he came after Moses .
The Muslims believe that Muhammad is a man from a man and a woman .
Allah is an Arabic word for " GOD ".

 

[Michael]

Muhammad was an ARAB and not a Jew .

mike47, are you racist? Because you just equated a culture (Arab) which you used AllCaps to make sure no one missed, with Judaism - which is a belief.

It's odd, it's like you are suggesting an Arab can not be Jewish? Is this what you are saying? Because I'm fairly sure Arabs, Asians, Indians, Africans etc.. can become Jews.

I don't think you can say definitively that Mohammad was not a Jew. If he was not a Jew then why did he incorporate 80% of Jewish myths into his new religion?

Why?

Surely he must have been a Jew, why else use the Jewish belief system? Also, he could have been Arab too, a Jewish Arab. Maybe only his mother or father was Jewish? Or a grandparent?

 

[Yorda]

jesus was half god and half man, like hercules, hence christians think that jesus was god, and muslims think he was a man. jesus' body was human but his spirit was god.

the only difference between jesus and us is that jesus allowed the spirit of god to express itself entirely through him. we ordinary humans don't really allow that, because we want to have our own individual existence. but mostly it's because we aren't evolved enough to realize that our true self is god.

muslims think of god as something entirely separate from this world, so jesus couldn't be god. but god is not so different from us.

 

[S.A.M.]

mike47, are you racist? Because you just equated a culture (Arab) which you used AllCaps to make sure no one missed, with Judaism - which is a belief.

Arab Jews do not define themselves as Arab e.g. Israeli Arabs vs Israeli Jews. And they consider Judaism, not a belief, but a culture and an ethnicity. As in atheist Jew. Mohammed was from the Quraish clan, they were not Jews.

 

[Ghost_007]

That's what I assumed as well.

I'm shocked that the usual entourage of self-appointed experts on Islam are unable to answer this question. They parade through this forum continually bleating how wrong we all are and how we misinterpret their religions doctrines.

And yet, not a peep from them, to a most important question. :shrug:

Maybe the self-appointed experts on Islam you're referring to have things to do now and again.

All divine revelation from start to finish is from Allah.

I'm no expert on the Old or New Testament, however whatever truth is in them is from Allah (God), the mistakes in the OT and NT are from man.

Yes, I'd say that Allah is similar enough to the God of the OT to be the same God. But maybe it's two Gods with similar dispositions. The God of the NT is altogether completely different.

The problem with many Christians is they pick and choose what to accept and what to reject. Anything uncomfortable is dropped and a much more 'softer' ruling or whatever is embraced. That is not religion. As you have made clear, the God of the NT seems different to the God of the OT - this just illustrates how certain people distort religious texts, diluting the true message of God.

If you got in a time machine and went back to ask Jesus whether the God he spoke of was a different God than that of the OT writings....I believe he would say no.

Its usually assumed that the NT deity is kinder and gentler...and yet, you will some the most wrathful statements from Jesus himself.

This is something that people do not understand.

God has many, many different attributes, to the average person they may even seem contradictory, though that is not the case. It is believed that in the Quran (and from the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) 99 names of God are mentioned (this is just from the Islamic scripture) – (There are more from previous scriptures)

Some examples:

Ar-Rahmaan - The Compassionate, The Beneficient.

Al-Malik - The King, The Sovereign Lord.

Al-Azeez - The Mighty, The Strong, The Defeater who is not defeated.

Al-Jabbaar - The Compeller, The One that nothing happens in His Dominion except that which He willed.

Al-Qahhaar - The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.

Al-Muntaqim - The Avenger, The One who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them for their sins. It may mean the One who destroys them.

Al-Afuww - The Pardoner, The Forgiver, The One with wide forgiveness.


****************


These are some examples of the names and attributes of God. Time should be taken to fully absorb the different names and their meanings, this is important in order to have a proper understanding. Yes, God is the most merciful, the forgiver of sins - that is not to say that God will overlook those that are cruel, those that hurt and cause hardship to other people in this life. This is a flaw in some Christians, if you are too soft and kind, if you overlook those doing wrong, everything turns upside down, there is no order. And again, if you are too harsh, people will be overburdened and far from content.

There is a balance, there has to be a balance. And God Al-Hakeem, The Wise, The Judge of Judges, The One who is correct in His doings.

 

[Michael]

Arab Jews do not define themselves as Arab e.g. Israeli Arabs vs Israeli Jews. And they consider Judaism, not a belief, but a culture and an ethnicity. As in atheist Jew. Mohammed was from the Quraish clan, they were not Jews.

Then why copy 80% Jewish religion into his religion? Why copy the Jewish mythos?

 

[S.A.M.]

Have you read the Torah and Quran?

 

[Michael]

The problem with many Christians is they pick and choose what to accept and what to reject. Anything uncomfortable is dropped and a much more 'softer' ruling or whatever is embraced. That is not religion. As you have made clear, the God of the NT seems different to the God of the OT - this just illustrates how certain people distort religious texts, diluting the true message of God.

Well that's one way to look at it. But, if one were to take the point of view that NT is based on an entirely different God, then it makes sense.

I agree the Jews did distort texts. They recognized the superiority of Greek philosophy to their own and tried to modernize their primitive belief system - poof Xianity.

 

[Michael]

Have you read the Torah and Quran?

I already told you, I read as much as I could stand until I finally succumbed to pure boredom.

You do or do not agree that Mohammad based his religion on Judaism?

 

[Ghost_007]

mike47, are you racist? Because you just equated a culture (Arab) which you used AllCaps to make sure no one missed, with Judaism - which is a belief.

The Jews during the time of Muhammad (Saws), spoke Arabic, they were pretty much Arabised Jews, if you can imagine such a thing.

I don't think you can say definitively that Mohammad was not a Jew. If he was not a Jew then why did he incorporate 80% of Jewish myths into his new religion?

Why?

Surely he must have been a Jew, why else use the Jewish belief system? Also, he could have been Arab too, a Jewish Arab. Maybe only his mother or father was Jewish? Or a grandparent?

That is a very simplistic way of looking at things.

The core message of Judaism as well as the Jewish people of that time had been corrupted. They had moved far away from the way of Moses, the Jews also regarded themselves as being superior to others, they rejected all Messengers that did not give them superiority over others, one of the reasons they rejected and wanted to kill the Prophet Muhammad. On the World stage at that time the Arabs were nothing, however God raised a poor, orphan Arab and made him the most influential person in history, his message made everyone equal, Islam preaches that everyone is equal before God. One of the reasons many people that were down-trodden at that time joined the Islamic movement.

 

[S.A.M.]

I already told you, I read as much as I could stand until I finally succumbed to pure boredom.

You do or do not agree that Mohammad based his religion on Judaism?

So its an argument from ignorance?

 

[Ghost_007]

Then why copy 80% Jewish religion into his religion? Why copy the Jewish mythos?

You do realise that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic religions...

Its not about copying, its about continuation and also correcting distortions.

Quite simple really.

 

[Michael]

The Jews during the time of Muhammad (Saws), spoke Arabic, they were pretty much Arabised Jews, if you can imagine such a thing.

It really depends on the Jew, there were many Jews who spoke Greek and Latin - like the ones that made Xianity.

But sure, there were Jews who were Arabs as well. Maybe Mohammad was related to one of them? or was one?

 

[Michael]

You do realise that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic religions...

Its not about copying, its about continuation and also correcting distortions.

Quite simple really.

Would you agree that the Bahai faith is a continuation of Islam, was their Prophet a New Prophet or did he copy earlier beliefs?

I'd say, if the original people follow the new teaching then it's a continuation, so the mythical Mosses is a continuation of earlier myths. Jesus could be considered a continuation but I think Hellenization of Judaism would be more apt. As it was created by Jews would could call it a branch. If Mohammad was a Jew then I'd say the same, if not then I'd say it's a copy.

 

[Michael]

On the World stage at that time the Arabs were nothing, however God raised a poor, orphan Arab and made him the most influential person in history, his message made everyone equal, Islam preaches that everyone is equal before God. One of the reasons many people that were down-trodden at that time joined the Islamic movement.

You do realize one of the Roman Emperors, the most powerful men in the area, was an Arab.

Many Arabs lived in Rome and in Italy and in Greece etc...

I don't think there was ever a time in Islam where all people were equal. Some people appear to have been slaves, women appear to be second to men, people not of the book appear to be delineated, Zoroastrians for example were persecuted and many migrated to India, polytheism in Arabia was snuffed out.

But, perhaps in as far as being an Arab on the march, sure, there was probably a sense of entitlement. Especially given the military successes. Another interesting commonality with a different nomadic people, the Mongols, they were very good about meritocracy. Probably a somewhat similar phenomena happened in Arabia to a degree.


Anyway, I suppose it really depends on how one defines continuation. Is the Baha'i faith a new religion or an improvement and continuation? Did the Baha'i fix all the problems that was inherent in Islam and the Qur'an?

 

[Michael]

So its an argument from ignorance?

argumentum ad ignorantiam is something altogether different.

As to me, I needn't read the entire Qur'an to see it is based on Jewish mythos. OMG, could you imagine ... haaaaa how uterly boring!

 

[S.A.M.]

argumentum ad ignorantiam is something altogether different.

As to me, I needn't read the entire Qur'an to see it is based on Jewish mythos. OMG, could you imagine ... haaaaa how uterly boring!

Ah so you base your assumptions on the fact that you haven't read it.

 

[Michael]

Anyway, I think we can agree at least the the God of the NT is not the same God of the Jews and Muslims. It's a Hellenized multicultural deity whereas the Jewish/Islam God is tribal which is why Jews and Arabs like to think in terms of being Jews and Arabs, as if they were a race of people, in reality this is just tribalism meets monotheism.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is that based on more stuff you did not read?

 

[Michael]

Ah so you base your assumptions on the fact that you haven't read it.

Do you need to read every word that Bush said in his 7 year tenure as president to realize he is an idiot???

Stop being pugnacious

Anyway, you referred to a logical fallacy incorrectly. Argument from Ignorance is not when you haven't read something in its entirety its when you claim something is true only because it hasn't been proved false. For example. Mohammad was never a Jew is an argument from ignorance - he may have been Jewish, perhaps a small sect that was Arabized and perhaps these Jews became what we would today call Muslims.