QuarkMoon:
You're beginning to sound a little desperate, what with your accusations of trolling. But you sound intelligent enough. Chances are you'll come round to my way of thinking once you've grown up a bit. I don't expect to convince you now, but at least I can plant some seeds.
Um, yes? So, are you going to admit that your ad-hominem attack was really a decription of you?
If you read carefully, I didn't make an
ad hominem attack. Or, if I did, it was only against a generic "some people". You seem to be taking this very personally.
And do you feel you are the only one to study the matter in depth? Or do you feel that your study is more relevent and therefore you posses more authority on the issue than everyone else?
No. The question here isn't who has "more authority". That's just more bullying - like telling women who are perfectly capable of making their own decisions how to live their lives. The relevant question here is: who has more convincing arguments?
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions. That fact is in complete disagreement with your statement.
No. Look, it's very simple. I said that ONE common-enough scenario for unplanned pregnancy is the situation I outlined. I never claimed it was the ONLY scenario, or the MAJOR cause of unplanned preganancy. See?
So, 47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one. So what? What's your argument against allowing abortion to anyone (apart from in rape cases), to which that fact is relevant? Don't be shy. Tell me what you really think.
Do you presume to be above facts and that your statements automatically become facts in of themselves? Arrogance, or just believing what you want to believe regardless of facts.
I invite you to check my facts in any way you feel is appropriate. I don't think I've made any statements which are factually incorrect. If I have, I'm happy to be corrected.
However, that argument [that adoption may be more traumatic for some women than abortion] is pointless unless you are arguing for the allowance of abortions only on a case by case basis. If you do not, that argument does not help your cause, because not all women feel adoption if more traumatizing than abortion but still have abortions anyway. That is immoral.
So, would you support the abortion option for those women who would find adoption more traumatic than having an abortion?
I think you're trying to make a slippery-slope argument that when abortion is legal people flock to have abortions and pay less attention to preventing pregnancy. However, I see no support for your claim, and I have given at least one good reason as to why it is likely to be false.
You have? Where would that be?
That would be where I said that abortion statistics are gathered on
legal abortions.
Illegal abortions go largely unrecorded. Therefore, we would expect abortion statistics to be higher once abortion becomes legal.
To take a similar example, consider crime rates. Suppose we collect statistics on the number of jay walkers in a city. In response to a perceived jay walking problem, more police are assigned to patrol the streets and book people for jay walking. What do you think will happen to jay walking statistics in this situation? Answer: the number of people recorded jay walking is likely to increase. Why? Because the police collect the statistics, and there are more police. Hence, more recording. You argument, in essence, is that the increased jay walking statistics tell us there are more jay walkers out there. Funny that that should happen just when there's a police crack-down on jay walking, don't you think?
It seems to me you are just a fanatic and believes abortions should be legal just because, with no valid reason as to why. I would call that trolling.
I'll make it simple for you. In a nutshell, here is why I believe abortion should be legal:
1. A pregnant woman is the person in the best position to decide what is best for her and her potential child.
2. The law should not interfere in matters of personal autonomy unless there is a compelling reason to do so.
3. Making abortion illegal does not prevent it occurring, but rather drives it underground, which results in BOTH women and their unborn children dying from backyard abortion procedures. Thus, net suffering increases by making abortion illegal.
4. An unborn foetus does not have the same interests, and therefore is not entitled to the same rights as an adult, or even the same rights as a newborn child.
5. The rights of a woman who has an unplanned pregnancy can, in some circumstances, outweigh the limited rights of an unborn child.
Now, why don't you give me your list of why you believe abortion should be illegal?
The women has a choice to have sex.
Not always. And accidents sometimes happen.
The women has a choice to use protection.
Not always. And accidents sometimes happen.
So, before I had to be in college to understand your argument. But when I tell you that I am in college, you then tell me I have to come back in two years. You, sir, are trolling.
Actually, I implied that it would have been useful for you
to have gone to college to appreciate how common the situation was. Specifically, I asked you "did you go to college?", not "are you going to college?"
Two can split hairs, Quarkmoon.
And no, my friends aren't Bible thumpers because I'm not one myself.
There's hope for you yet.
One common scenario of many? That makes absolutely no sense! It is an uncommon scenario, a claim supported by abortion statistics.
Ah! You have abortion statistics for university halls of residence. Show me.
Fact: The majority of unplanned pregnancies are a result of consensual sex without the use of protection.
I could ask you to source this fact, but it really doesn't matter whether it is true or not. Let's say it is. Why does it then follow that abortion should not be permitted?
Two people wait until they are married to have sex. The women ends up pregnant, why would that be an unwanted pregnancy?
Er.. because she didn't want to get pregnant?
A women chooses not to use protection, and chooses to have sex before she is able to take care of a child.
So, in essence, you
do believe that women are reckless about the chances of pregnancy. You actually think that, in general, women don't worry about getting pregnant when they have sex. What makes you think that?
