International Press Conference, Mexican DoD (UFO)

[coolmacguy]

I am retiring from this thread.

I have better things to do than waste my time on clueless people like Stryder.

He can continue to blindly believe whatever explanation strikes him.

It's clear he cares nothing for the truth.

 

[Unknown_user]

I thought of balloons when I first watched the vidie, but unlike Stryder I thought they would have had to manipulate the speed of the video to make them look like they were going faster than they actually were.

Looked legit to me.

 

[Stryder]

The question is CrazyMikey, where are you getting your source from?

[Edit]
How I mean is, "Is you source credible?", you say yes but I say look closely. Your not taking testimony directly from the eye witness account, your taking testimony from a website that isn't notorious for fact based analysis.

I admit my angles different to your own, I've removed Witness testimony in what ever form from the argue because you can't evaluate the truth if your bent up on what people output, since it's not necessarily the truth.

Thats the reason why I went to so much trouble to place Evidence that puts doubt on the claim because of all the factors. (The Jet Stream and Business Airshow)

I don't credit eye witness testimony from the amount of times that eyewitnesses concoct things.

 

[whitewolf]

Are we all happy that we have buddies who live outside our planet and want to visit us once in a while?

I've never heard of a UFO flying saucer with a thing hanging below it. It's damn balloons.

 

[Neildo]

Just so you know, I believe in aliens, UFOs, and all that stuff. However, I think this time it really is a balloon (of all the objects to be! heh). Stryder has provided sufficient evidence of this case as being them.

As much as I'd like for those balloons (or whatever they are) to be some alien craft, the rest of you are just looking like schmucks spouting off fanatical comments towards Stryder and others. Everything so far mentioned towards being pointed towards ETI craft, can be countered with a logical explanation.

And just because the Mexican Department of Defense is talking about this incident, it doesn't make it any more legit. This wouldn't be the first time the military has been fooled into thinking something is what it really isn't, nor would this be the first time the Mexican Government trying to gain a bit of press attention for their lonely selves.

- N

 

[Avatar]

maybe they are interstellar hot gas balloons

 

[SkinWalker]

I am retiring from this thread.
I have better things to do than waste my time on clueless people like Stryder. He can continue to blindly believe whatever explanation strikes him.
It's clear he cares nothing for the truth.

It's probably just as well that you do "retire" from the thread. Stryder is perhaps one of the few people actually making an attempt to discuss the event with any semblance of logic. Within the non-skeptic camp, I would like to thank an>roid.v2 since he appeared interested in logical and civilized discussion, as did one or two others I that I could tell. The majority of the "believer" camp and a few in the "skeptic" camp each polluted the thread with ridicule and unnecessary comments.

Whether it's the "Pseudoscience" forum or a "Hard" science forum, I believe that civilized discussion can be had. One need not believe or buy into the position of others in order to do so. I predict that when a moderator(s) is finally chosen for this forum, there will be outcries of undo censurship, etc., because a lot of the malcontent directed at Stryder was simply uncalled for. There are better, more mature ways of saying, "I disagree." Calling someone clueless and ignorant (actual ad hominem remarks directed at Stryder) do not further the discussion. That someone who readily accepts the belief that ETI piloted the lights in the Mexican sky on that March day can ridicule another member for believing "whatever explanation strikes him" and "state that the same member "cares nothing for the truth" is simply an emotional response to the logical arguments he presented.

Neither Coolmacguy, crazymikey, or Norval made any attempt to effectively demonstrate why they thought his hypothesis was wrong, they simply resorted to calling him "clueless" and "ignorant." To top it all off, Stryder never once stated that his hypothesis was the only valid one, rather he stated it was the most likely one in view of testability and available data.

The interesting thing to note is that, as far as I could tell, Stryder never once responded with the lack of civility or the resorting to ad hominem remarks as the above mentioned "believers" did.

The Mexican event is an interesting case and deserves dicsussion and investigation for a number of reasons, and if someone were to delete all the posts that didn't contribute to the discussion in a constructive manner, I think we'd have about one page worth of posts. But they'd be interesting to read and they'd represent both sides of the debate.

 

[Avatar]

by the way I was being serious
true - they are still UFO
but why do the believers totally dismiss that they could be balloons? because they want them to be alien craft, right? ok. so why couldn't aliens use balloons? it's a good technology to use in the earth's atmosphere

 

[Avatar]

1. a radio contact atte3mpt can be ignored
2. if they were drug smugglers, I doubt they had legal balloon licences
3. If I were a drug smuggler I'd also choose a closed gondola, due to those powerful winds and high altitude
4. no wonder they are above the clouds - in a cloudy day/night nobody would see the smuggling from ground
5. what would we do if they show up to be extraterrestrial smugglers?

 

[moementum7]

President Jimmy Carter
"If I become President, I’ll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public, and the scientists. I am convinced that UFOs exist because I’ve seen one..."

President Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Beware the military-industrial complex."
His last anouncement to the public while president, knowing full well of black operations related to UFO/ET.

J. Edgar Hoover
"I would do it [study UFOs], but before agreeing to do it, we must insist upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the L.A. case, the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."

President Gerald Ford
"In the firm belief that the American public deserves a better explanation than that thus far given by the Air Force, I strongly recommend that there be a committee investigation of the UFO phenomena. I think we owe it to the people to establish credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment on this subject."

Bunch of quacks!
Just who do these people think they are...sheesh!

 

[Star_One]

Cant someone contact the airshow, and ask if they had any balloons take off at the end, although surely it would be open basket balloons ?

 

[coolmacguy]

Well, I was going to retire from this thread. But this post necessitates a response to correct a few errors.

It's probably just as well that you do "retire" from the thread. Stryder is perhaps one of the few people actually making an attempt to discuss the event with any semblance of logic.

Oh my. You actually think they are balloons too?

As I and plenty of others have said, that totally outrageous conclusion is completely devoid of logic.

That someone who readily accepts the belief that ETI piloted the lights in the Mexican sky on that March day can ridicule another member for believing "whatever explanation strikes him" and "state that the same member "cares nothing for the truth" is simply an emotional response to the logical arguments he presented.

There were no "logical arguments presented." There was a hastily generated outlandish conclusion that the objects must be balloons, an explanation that does not fit the facts of the case.

Neither Coolmacguy, crazymikey, or Norval made any attempt to effectively demonstrate why they thought his hypothesis was wrong, they simply resorted to calling him "clueless" and "ignorant."

Skinwalker has obviously not read the entire thread.

I provided several points of evidence that clearly demonstrated why his hypothesis was wrong and was an incredibly weak explanation of this case.

He responded to those, and I clarified several.

There was discussion of his viewpoint.

In the end, his refusal to see these glaring errors in his theory shows his close-mindedness and lack of reasoning skills. Sorry if that sounds disparaging, but there is no other way around it.

 

[Avatar]

1. Why?
2. If they were drug smugglers, I doubt very much that they would choose a clumsy balloon as a means to covert operations. Really!
3. If I were a drug smuggler, I definitely would not choose a clumsy balloon as a means to covert operations.
4. You're still assuming that just because there was no radio contact, that it spells out d-r-u-g-s!
5. Extraterrestrial smugglers? Right.

I would think that if drug smugglers were being radio-contacted, they wouldn't ignore the contact otherwise it would expose them instantly. Surely, smugglers work incognito, you know: a back-up strategy.

1. ask them, but it can
2.balloons are really cool. they are silent, easy to maintain, easy to replace if hit down, and also cheap, and easy to make them stealth
3. you won't, I would
4. but that explains a lot - the lack of radio contact, the need for stealth, etc
5. why not? Extraterrestrial smugglers less probable than extraterrestrial kidnappers or cow mutilators?

 

[2inquisitive]

Don't get too mad here guys but:

Between the 3rd and 5th of March 2004, There was the Mexican Business Aviation Show at Toluca, Mexico.
http://www.expos2003.com

By my calculations its almost nearly in perfect alignment with the direction at which the airforce guys were looking (other than they were a little more north but in alignment with the direction that the hot air balloons might close the show with a mass send off and catch the Jet stream)

This particular business show had such companies as "Janes" there, which means that some of the things on show in the business world would potentially be kept from the public to begin with.

Clutching at straws (like strawmen) there aren't you, Strider? I had noticed
you had earlier posted that the 'jet stream' was at speeds up to 170 mph
that day. Where did you get that information? There was some high speed
winds, about 70-90 KNOTS per hour several hundred miles away, to the NW,
of the sighting area and those winds were to the NE. The report stated the
unidentifieds were about 50 miles away, recorded on FLIR and radar. Balloons
at the end of the air expo, huh? Toluca is also several hundred miles from the
sighting area, and any balloons in the air stream would have travelled to the
NE, except the high speeds winds were north of Toluca as well. The expo was held INSIDE a hanger, with booths set up. It was not an air show, but displaying new aviation-related
equipment. And balloons being used to sneak in drugs? Come on! You do know
balloons are a little hard to guide and set down at a specific location, right?
And a whole group of them floating along together in the daytime wouldn't be
too sneaky, would it? By the way, what direction was the '-133 degrees'?
You do realize Campeche state is over on the Yucatan peninsula, it is not
north of Toluca, right?

 

[shaman_]

Can someone who has done more investigation please answer a few questions ...

I have watched a few minutes of footage. We are looking at infra red right? The incident started at 5pm. Where is the regular footage? Does it show anything?

At one stage the lights seemed to move behind a cloud (or the plane did). Would they still show up on IR behind a cloud?

If the objects are not balloons what are the smaller flat 'lights' underneath the larger ones?

Is there footage of the lights surrounding the plane? All I have seen is lights in the distance.

How long does the footage go for? Does anyone know where I can download it?

thanks.

 

[2inquisitive]

I haven't done any research on this other than just reading sources and looking at the same pictures as everyone else. Infrared is just the thermal (heat) signature of an
object used to make a 'picture.' Did you see the movie 'Predator'? That was infrared
imaging used by the creature. It simply separates the 'hotter' areas from the background. The 'light' below the other circular image just shows another 'hot spot.'
It is not necessarily something hanging down, it could also be a heat signature from
a propulsion system, directed downward. If the moisture in the cloud between the
object and the FLIR camera were enough, sure it would block out the infrared (heat)
signature of the object, just as it could block out visable light.

 

[Stryder]

2inquisitive,
I know they were flying just to the south of Campeche, In fact there is an instance of a map I have shown on page "2" I think where a little star shows their location (Not Campeche's location, it was a based on their longitude and latitude.)

As for their direction, I believe their -133 to -139 uses East as a 0, this would mean the angle they were viewing was North Westerly, Towards a Jet stream although it's fastest centre was about 350-400 miles off from their position.

Admittedly I'm going by their visual interpretation what would really be needed in this instance is their Radar logs, although I doubt that one would be allowed out. (To show their locations in refence to one another)

Please don't forget, although it was a "Business Airshow", that doesn't mean a bunch of millionaire playboys with their latest prototype/gadgets wouldn't show up, such gadgets might look like:

http://www.cojoweb.com/skycar.html

And I doubt that they would just cruise to and from the show.

[See two different theories, One the Drug cartel, the other a bunch of millionaires in prototype craft at an airshow]

 

[Star_One]

Since the plane was looking for people smuggling drugs, i doubt they would mistake a smuggling operation with something else.

What we need is the whole footage

 

[moementum7]

Stryder, I do have to say I admire your civilty in this conversation.
You should send all of your information to the mexican DoD.
I am sure they would appreciate such research.
Maybe you could be the guy to save them from all of this embarsasment and set them straight.
Seriously.

 

[crazymikey]

Admittedly I'm going by their visual interpretation what would really be needed in this instance is their Radar logs, although I doubt that one would be allowed out.

Stryder, you don't have to admit it, it's obvious your argument is nothing more than, "They look like ballons to me; therefore they are balloons" yet you epitomize the skeptical school of thought. This is why we don't take you skeptics seriously.

Considering the amount of holes in your "ballon theory" it should have popped by now

Note to everyone: Does anyone know about about that conference, has it taken place yet?