International Press Conference, Mexican DoD (UFO)

[QuickPoster]

MEXICO CITY -- A series of brightly lit, rapidly moving objects filmed in the skies over Mexico could have been caused by a scientific phenomenon involving gases in the atmosphere, a scientist said Thursday.

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2147323,00.html

 

[Neildo]

Lol, okay, balloons I'll believe, but NOT more freakin atmospheric gases, heh.

- N

 

[2inquisitive]

The scientist seemed to be speaking of a ball lightning type phenomenon. I thought
ball lightning only lasted for shorter periods of time and I would be very surprised to
find it could accelerate quickly and change directions quickly as was stated in the
reports. And I don't know whose idea the gas from oil wells explaination was. Unconfined gas balls in the atmosphere burning for extended periods of time and
changing directions, while over land? The oil wells are located in the Gulf. We will
just have to waite for more information to get any idea of what might have happened.

 

[Unknown_user]

K, this link I found on a Mexican forum is the same, but i think it is about 10 seconds longer. At the end, the light either takes a HUGE directional change or the camera jerks around???

http://gusd0076.free.fr/mexico-03-05-04.mpg

 

[2inquisitive]

It don't think it would be possible to jerk the camera around. It is not hand-held,
it is mounted to the outside of the plane and rotates by means of electric motors.
It is also adjusted on the verticle plane (up & down) by motors. Here is a link to a
picture of the same model, the FLIR Star Safire ll, from the company that makes it.
http://www.flir.com/imaging/Airborne/Products/StarSafireII.aspx

 

[Avatar]

Oh my. You actually think they are balloons too?

"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."
-- Douglas Noel Adams, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

 

[mestar]

some more observations... in the beginning of the 3 minutes video that can be found on emule (file name "Mexico Ufo Movie 05-03-04.mpg"), there are two clouds, one closer and one further away. those clouds are of similar shape, so could that mean that the are on the same altitude? and that would mean that the camera is pointing downwards?

at the 10th second of the 3 min. video, there is a shot of the ground, and two UFOs are clearly stationary relative to the ground. could those UFOs be a really strong heat source on the ground?


also, what evidence there is of those UFOs actually moving? i watched all the videos again, and i couldn't find any evidence of those UFOs moving at all. (for example, having a cloud behind them.) it could all be watched from a perspective that those are very hot but stationary spots far away. that would also explain why they are so fixed in a formation, since stationary things are in a fixed formations kind of automatically. could those be some fires on a distant mountain or something?


(update, just took another look, and there is some "El" indicator on the bottom in degrees, that seems to be negative when they were shooting the ground, and about 2 or 3 when doing UFOs. there goes that theory )

 

[Maharajah]

You seriously couldn't tell that those objects were moving? What's wrong with you? It's plainly obvious to me...

 

[moementum7]

Mestar,Mestar,Mestar, if you were my kid, I would seriously break the wooden spoon over your ass!
I'm speechless at your conclusion,so..............


Just saw your edit, welcome back to earth.

Isn't it amazing how pre-determined beleifs one way or the other, leads one to build in their minds what they would prefer to see.
This does go both ways, beleievers and non-beleievers.

Attempting to fit the world into their own perspective instead of the other way around.
Most people have a hard time adjusting to the fact that some one forgot to put the super sauce on their taco, little alone the fact that they would have to adjust to a universe teeming with life and no longer the center of existence!!!!!

Fuck I'm Awesome!

 

[craterchains (Norval]

I for one will accept the investigations so far accomplished by the Mexican authorities BECAUSE their ass’s are WAY OUT on a limb on this one. From the highest ranking official on down to the pilots. If this gets “laughed off the News” they will lose their jobs.

Wanna bet that the GENERAL made VERY sure of all of this before he gave the go ahead for release?

The mark of all great conspiracies is the corruption of common knowledge.

 

[FieryIce]

I for one will accept the investigations so far accomplished by the Mexican authorities BECAUSE their ass’s are WAY OUT on a limb on this one. From the highest ranking official on down to the pilots. If this gets “laughed off the News” they will lose their jobs.

Wanna bet that the GENERAL made VERY sure of all of this before he gave the go ahead for release?

The mark of all great conspiracies is the corruption of common knowledge.

EXACTLY

More links to news articles:

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3707057.stm

Hindustan Times
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_750084,0004.htm

Japan Today
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=298145

USAToday
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-05-12-mexico-ufos_x.htm

 

[SkinWalker]

From the highest ranking official on down to the pilots. [...] Wanna bet that the GENERAL made VERY sure of all of this before he gave the go ahead for release?

It appears that one of the highest officials has a different position on the subject.

http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar...regional/4cfb1a270753135c87256e920071fd43.txt

"Mexican Defense Secretary Ricardo Vega Garcia said Wednesday the military had made no conclusions about a series of brightly lit, rapidly moving objects filmed by Air Force pilots earlier this year. Vega said neither had the military concluded that the objects, visible only with infrared equipment, were flying saucers as UFO investigator Jaime Maussan insisted during a news conference Tuesday."

It's clear that a lot of people want it to be UFO/ETI related, but there simply isn't enough data to say it empirically.

Vega said he decided to release the videotape because it seemed pointless to guard it as a military secret and he did not see it as a threat to national security. He said copies are available for further revision by the scientific community.

 

[spidergoat]

On the contrary, the video does in fact support that this is ET or secret advanced human technology.

That is, if the rest of the video coincides with the reports of the crafts changing their speed enormously and direction. Also, if these crafts did go invisible to the eye, we would have to agree that we have not have "cloaking" ability yet. And..., if we do, then I think we would dominate the skies of the world and it would make the H-bomb look like a joke.

Not at all, the existence of UFO's proves one thing, that there are UNIDENTIFIED objects in the sky. They might not even be objects. Thinking a technology has something to do with it is the product of observer bias. Ever heard of occam's razor?

 

[Unknown_user]

Spider, that isn't very logical. If something UNIDENTIFIED obviously is flying in formation and changes directions, as in my example, then the most reasonable explanation wouldn't be gasses or something unintelligent. It would be secret advanced US technology as far as I am concerned or ET.

 

[2inquisitive]

Not at all, the existence of UFO's proves one thing, that there are UNIDENTIFIED objects in the sky. They might not even be objects. Thinking a technology has something to do with it is the product of observer bias. Ever heard of occam's razor?

Of course, most have heard of Occam's razor. But most don't know what it
really states. They seem to think is says "the simplist explanation is the
correct one." That is incorrect. I took the liberty of copying an excerpt of
a post from 'Pete' in another thread for convinence. Here it is:

"Occam's Razor / Ockham's Razor:
one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

This doesn't mean that a more complicated explanation is wrong, only that it is unnecessary. As more phenomena are uncovered, an explanation that was previously justified by Occam's razor may fail, and a more complicated explanation may be required."

Notice the hypothesis has to EXPLAIN the event, the whole event, to be
accepted by Occam's razor. Occam's razor is not a law, but a philosophical
way of determining which hypothesis that fully explains an event is to be
considered first, in the case there is more than one QUALIFIED explaination.

 

[coolmacguy]

It's clear that a lot of people want it to be UFO/ETI related, but there simply isn't enough data to say it empirically.

You are making a mistake here though equating UFO with ETI.

The sighting is most definitely UFO related, i.e. the objects were UFOs. This was determined through an investigation by the Mexican military before the story became public.

However, that does not mean the source of the UFOs was ETI.

More investigation would be needed to make that conclusion.

 

[SkinWalker]

But couldn't we say the same in reverse, that there isn't enough data to point out that the objects are not [ETI]-related?

Of course, but since the only currently testable hypotheses involve terrestrial sources, the ETI hypothesis is by default the less likely cause. In spite of my skepticism of applying an ETI cause to the event, I'd very much like it to be. I simply don't let these desires to overrule my critical thinking.

I edited your quoted text above because crazymikey pointed out a common fallacy: that UFO is automatically associated with ETI, when it simply refers to 'unidentified.' These are clearly UFOs. I just maintain that a terrestria/naturall origin is more likely.

So far, there's been the balloon explanation, but on what grounds?

Actually, it was a balloon hypothesis, which was at least as viable as the ETI hypothesis.

 

[2inquisitive]

quote:

"Actually, it was a balloon hypothesis, which was at least as viable as the ETI hypothesis."
===========================================================

That is because in your biased opinion, the ETI hypothesis is not viable. To accept
the balloon hypothesis, you have to state the Mexican Air Force and their scientists
were grossly ignorant and incompetent in their investigation. The statement released
said the number of objects increased (more balloons suddenly appeared) and their
velocities accelerated quickly (the Mexican Air Force doesn't know how to read radar
data?) and changed direction quickly (same incompetence). We will have to waite
until the actual data is released to see if they are that incompetent. No, even then
an ETI proof cannot be made, but a balloon hypothesis can surely be made to look
silly.

 

[spidergoat]

Spider, that isn't very logical. If something UNIDENTIFIED obviously is flying in formation and changes directions, as in my example, then the most reasonable explanation wouldn't be gasses or something unintelligent. It would be secret advanced US technology as far as I am concerned or ET.

Or, it could be the spirits of the dead,
or a terrestrial life form hitherto unknown,
or an atmosphere based life form hitherto unknown,
or angels,
or ball lightning,
or a mirage,
or military helicopters,
or santa clause on an early recon mission,
or remote control models,
or a spotlight,
or, finally, ET,
these are all just as reasonable hypothesis. Why only consider the most improbable explanation, which is that entities smart enough, and with the enormous leisure time required to travel all this way are having fun with the mexican air force without even introducing themselves? Isn't a terrestrial explanation more befitting occam's razor? Isn't the alien hypothesis an unneccessary multiplication of explanations?...because it postulates
1. The existence of intelligent aliens.
2. The travel over mind-boggling distances to get here.
3. The motivation to buzz the mexican air force???
4. Secrecy about their existence coupled with blatant non-secrecy at certain times for certain people.
5. Colored lights??

I mean, it may turn out to be ET, but still, it is the most improbable explanation.

 

[2inquisitive]

So, spidergoat, you believe spirits of the dead are more likely to manifest themselves
as recordable objects than the possibility of another intelligent lifeform in the universe?