Influencing children to become homosexual

[D'ster]

So you think that a parents influence can in no way change a child ways of behaviour?

 

[superluminal]

So you think that a parents influence can in no way change a child ways of behaviour?

I already told you. This is not what I think. It's a demonstrated fact. The basic behavioral set of a child is affected to a degree of virtually ZERO by parental influences, barring, as I said, traumatic abuse.

You do understand the concept of research results, yes?

 

[D'ster]

I already told you. This is not what I think. It's a demonstrated fact. The basic behavioral set of a child is affected to a degree of virtually ZERO by parental influences, barring, as I said, traumatic abuse.

So what your saying is that only "traumatic abuse" can change the "basic behavioral set of a child".

But any positive reinforcment put forth from a parent to a child would have "to a degree virtually ZERO by parental influences" effecting the childs behaviour?

You do understand the concept of research results, yes?

I understand these are your personal feeling, as you have provided no links.

 

[superluminal]

Find your own links, lazy bones.

Google on:

Judith Rich Harris
Steven Pinker
David C. Rowe

for starters.

 

[leopold]

it's a known fact that environment plays an important part in a persons behaviour so yes, a parent can influence a childs behaviour.

 

[superluminal]

it's a known fact that environment plays an important part in a persons behaviour so yes, a parent can influence a childs behaviour.

Please read my post just a few inches up your page:

SL:
What counts is the genetic tendencies that the parents so kindly gave the child (represents about 50% of the variation in behavior) and the external influences that the child encounters throughout life (the other 50%).

Why yes! I agree with you. Environment plays an important part in a persons behavior. About 50% even. Imagine that. Read the research. Basic behaviors of children are influenced to a virtually negligible degree by parental manipulation.

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is some research:

J Adolesc. 2006 May 31; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

Parental communication and youth sexual behaviour.

Aspy CB, Vesely SK, Oman RF, Rodine S, Marshall L, McLeroy K.

Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, 900 NE 10th Street, Oklahoma City, OK 73104, USA.

The role of parental communication and instruction concerning sexual behaviour were studied in a community-based sample of 1083 youth aged 13-17 (mean age of 15 years; 51% girls, 49% White). The Youth Asset Survey was administered along with items measuring demographics and youth risk behaviours. After controlling for demographic factors, multivariate analysis revealed that youth were much less likely to have initiated sexual intercourse if their parents taught them to say no, set clear rules, talked about what is right and wrong and about delaying sexual activity. If youth were sexually active, they were more likely to use birth control if taught at home about delaying sexual activity and about birth control. Having only one sexual partner was associated with having an adult role model who supports abstinence, being taught at home about birth control, and being taught at home how to say no. If parents reported talking with youth about birth control and sexually transmitted disease (STD) prevention, youth were significantly more likely to use birth control. Our conclusion is that parents have the opportunity and ability to influence their children's sexual behaviour decisions.


Comments?

 

[leopold]

you must remember that the vast majority of motor pathways are formed in early childhood even though it continues throughout life.

and don't you agree that a parent can alter a childs behaviour by altering the childs environment? this is what i meant.

 

[superluminal]

Hang on everyone. I'm talking about basic behaviors. If the child is aggressive. If the child is shy. If the child is same-gender attracted. If the child is lazy, If the child is intelligent. Etc.

Clearly parents can teach children many things, including safe or delayed sexual practices. We teach our children the language we speak. But we can't influence much at all whether the child likes to wack off to males or females, or if he will use his language to promote conservative or liberal ideas. This appears (according to research) to be genetically determind by about 50% and peer/external environment influenced by about 50%.

 

[Absane]

I already told you. This is not what I think. It's a demonstrated fact. The basic behavioral set of a child is affected to a degree of virtually ZERO by parental influences, barring, as I said, traumatic abuse.

You do understand the concept of research results, yes?

I agree. They do these studies on twins that were seperated by birth, each child raised under households with different view points about the world and even intellectual abilities. For instance, the IQ seems to differ by no more than about 4 points (ballpark figure, but I racall it wasn't all that large of a gap).

 

[leopold]

twins do not make up the majority of the population
also the research base is going to be very low if only twins are used.

 

[S.A.M.]

they use twins to eliminate the effects of genes ( twins are genetically identical).

So, if you use identical twins, same household = gene+environment influence

identical twins, different households (adopted or fostered) = environmental influence

fraternal twins, same household = genetic influence ( any differences are due to difference in gene, since in the same household they would have similar environments)

 

[leopold]

i am not sure if it is relevant to the discussion but i found the following on antisocial behaviour:

Dr Essi Viding says: "Our research has important implications. The discovery that psychopathic tendencies are strongly heritable suggests that we need to get help for these youngsters early on. Any behaviour is influenced by multiple genes and an unlucky combination of genes may increase vulnerability to a disorder.
"However, strong heritability does not mean that nothing can be done. Children are open to protective environmental influences early in life and these influences can buffer the effect of genetic vulnerability.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=25078

 

[S.A.M.]

Hmm...

I would say that genetics provides the possibility for weaknesses in the aspects that makes up your biology and psyche, the part which controls your mood, your motivation, your ability to delay gratification. But how those raw materials are used is dependent to a very large extent on environmental factors.
e.g. you may be genetically prediposed to cancer, but if you eat a healthy diet, exercise, go for regular check ups the probability of your getting the cancer is significantly reduced.

 

[D'ster]

Identical twins have identical genes. If homosexuality was a biological condition produced inescapably by the genes (e.g. eye color), then if one identical twin was homosexual, in 100% of the cases his brother would be too. But we know that only about 38% of the time is the identical twin brother homosexual. Genes are responsible for an indirect influence, but on average, they do not force people into homosexuality. This conclusion has been well known in the scientific community for a few decades (e.g. 6) but has not reached the general public. Indeed, the public increasingly believes the opposite.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

 

[superluminal]

Identical twins have identical genes. If homosexuality was a biological condition produced inescapably by the genes (e.g. eye color), then if one identical twin was homosexual, in 100% of the cases his brother would be too. But we know that only about 38% of the time is the identical twin brother homosexual. Genes are responsible for an indirect influence, but on average, they do not force people into homosexuality. This conclusion has been well known in the scientific community for a few decades (e.g. 6) but has not reached the general public. Indeed, the public increasingly believes the opposite.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

Holy mother of god.

Does the ratio of 50% genetic variation to 50% environmental variation mean nothing to you gentle readers?

 

[Mystech]

In addition since it is only recently that homosexulas started adopting (please correct me if I am wrong),

Actually homosexuals, non-romantically involved same-sex couples, and of course single parents have been raising children for all of human history. For as long as there has been disease poverty war and other human hardships there have been kids without biological parrents and as such family units which go outside of what we've very recently come to think of in the US as the "traditional" family unit. Admittedly there has been an increase in openly homosexual couples adopting children, but this has simply come along with there being more open homosexuals, and the way society has been changing since the early 70s to be more accepting of homosexuals in general.

It has never been Illegal in the US for Homosexuals to have custody or to adopt children, at least not nation wide, though a few (perhaps only one or two) states currently have very recently passed laws barring homosexuals from adopting. I know that Florida does this but I'm not entirely certain of where else - Alabama and Ohio both come to mind, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

[Mystech]

Boys on the average are givin more masculine activity's and roles in life while girls are givin more feminie activity's and roles in life. I know plenty of parents that do many different natural things it try to influence there children into a hetrosexual way of life.

What? Man I don't know who told you about the birds and the bees, but let me assure you that it's got nothing to do with base-ball and monster trucks. It's all about who you're attracted to and that's that.

Maybe you're confused, maybe the only portrayal of gay people you've ever seen is on Will & Grase, but we're not all show-tune singing fops, and frankly the vast majority of us still act just as stupid and macho as straight-guys, some to fit in, but of course most because hey, we're guy's too and we like football and we like fast cars, and hey we just happen to like guys to!

Growing up I wasn't sitting around playing with dolls (no, they were Action figure! Spiderman != Barbie) I played war with my friends, using sticks as guns because my mom wouldn't let us have actual toy guns, and we beat each other up, and fell out of trees and came home with scraped knees and elbows from trying to take our bicycles off of make-shift ramps. I was in the boyscouts, too, and in fact every gay man that I have dated and maintain contact with today was in either boyscouts or cubscouts at some point in their youth as well (I'm honestly starting to think that there may be some sort of connection!). I love guns, and target shooting and have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of military arms throughout the 20th century, and now and again I come home and fall asleep with the History Channel on and never wonder if perhaps there were more to history than war - it's just fun to learn about!

On the other hand we're used to persecution, we're used to morons like you who think that we should all be lisping sissies, and at the same time we've all had to go through the trauma of admitting to first ourselves and eventually others that yeah, though they may like it our sexual desires run along different lines than those of most people, and we know we can get away with seeming slightly less masculine now and again because people already think that about us anyhow, so who gives a shit. We're not like the straight guys who have to get in a fist-fight every time someone sneers at them for getting a manicure now and again (though even I have to admit that that's pretty gay).

So why don't you learn a little bit before you open your big mouth and announce to everyone how utterly clueless you are on this topic. You don't raise a kid to be straight or gay, you just raise 'em, if he's a boy he gets a cowboy hat and a toy gun, and if you're a girl you get a skirt and a dolly because kids are dumb and don't care anyway, they'll figure themselves out later in life, and it's got nothing to do with whether or not you took 'em to football practice or taught 'em how to light a fire.

And finally a question: What parents, exactly, do you think are raising their kids to be gay? And how exactly does one go about that? Ask 'em "So little Johnny did you kiss any boys at school today? No? Better get on that, Son!" For some reason I just don't see that happening. Try to keep in mind that it's evangelical Christian nut-jobs who are trying to force their values and way of life on anyone, not the other way around - most of their opponents just want the freedom and peace to be left alone and do things the way they see fit.

 

[Mystech]

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

You're citing Narth? Narth isn't a research instiution, they're a socio-political instituion dedicated to push an anti-gay agenda. That's what they were founded for by some self-hating closet cases who later ran off and married eachother! HA! That's like citing the Family Research Institute on Scientific studies - guess what they're not a scientific organization, they're a rabbidly biased political activist comitty. Oh but wait you have cited them in other threads, haven't you? Guess you're as good as cherry picking and choosing your numbers as they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NARTH Just give a little look throug here, pretty simple, they're a bunch of quacks and nutters who are too religious to be serious psychologists or functioning human beings. Haha, on a closer read through i can see that this wikipedia artical is insanely biased in favor of NARTH and their views, but I think the bullshit is so steamingly obvious that I still invite you to have a smell.

 

[leopold]

calm down mystech there's no need to get your panties in a bunch.
i would be willing to bet that most of the anti-gay posters in this thread have never been to a gay bar nor do they have any gay friends.
to be honest i am not exactly pro gay nor am i anti gay
i have, or had, gay friends and i have been to gay bars
i have even been to gay bars posing as a date for one of my gay friends
the fact of the matter is that homosexuality is not some new fad. it has been around since ancient times.